jrfromafar
New Dementia-ions of Funk
- Location
- California Sierra Nevada Foothills
Like I said, I don't know the facts, and I'm certainly not a proponent of one side or the other - but I think that article calls for a plate of Oysters Rockefeller 
Since I live in CA....this is a little troubling...Fukushima
- Thread starter CeeCee
- Start date
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
Half the battle of getting enough info to form a balanced opinion is knowing where to look for it, thans Jr, never would have thought to look into those ones you found.
Love "Southern Fried Science"... how apt!
More excerpts to entice readers to avail themselves of some counter arguments to the scary headlines.
e.g.
More gems debunking the hair tearing hollering of the original link of this thread await those interested.
Even 100% truthful statements ain't necessarily so if they are twisted and presented out of context!
Knowing how that's done is interesting, knowing or at least suspecting, WHY it's done is vital!
It's easy enough to do, I do it all the time to score points in verbal jousts.
(Just ask Warri and Phil, they're onto me.)
I even do it for nuthin, imagine how much fun it would be if there was a dollar in it? Show me the money and I'll write up something about whatever you're scared about that will knock your socks off.
What about the peril surrounding us of the massive amounts of lethal Dihydrogen Monoxide that we are ingesting every day?
Been scared about that one yet? Anyone miss out?
Love "Southern Fried Science"... how apt!
More excerpts to entice readers to avail themselves of some counter arguments to the scary headlines.
e.g.
More gems debunking the hair tearing hollering of the original link of this thread await those interested.
Even 100% truthful statements ain't necessarily so if they are twisted and presented out of context!
Knowing how that's done is interesting, knowing or at least suspecting, WHY it's done is vital!
It's easy enough to do, I do it all the time to score points in verbal jousts.
(Just ask Warri and Phil, they're onto me.)I even do it for nuthin, imagine how much fun it would be if there was a dollar in it? Show me the money and I'll write up something about whatever you're scared about that will knock your socks off.
What about the peril surrounding us of the massive amounts of lethal Dihydrogen Monoxide that we are ingesting every day?
Been scared about that one yet? Anyone miss out?
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
Here's something interesting from a marine ecologist. He claims that all the maladies caused by industrial pollution is being blamed on Fukushima.
http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=15903
I'd say he knows more than your average bear.... Lol - he at least knows more than I do
He's not so smart ... he claims Cesium-137 has a half-life of 70 days, when in fact its half-life is 30 years. Quite a few orders of magnitude of an error, I'd say, and if he's THAT far off on ONE subject then his entire rant is suspect.
jrfromafar
New Dementia-ions of Funk
- Location
- California Sierra Nevada Foothills
Hmmm... He sure is wrong about that - maybe too soon to order those oysters...
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
Sometimes - heck, ALL the time lately - it becomes tiresome to back-check all these people. It used to be, back before the Internet, that we had people we could trust to tell us the truth, the well-researched truth. Brinkley, Huntley, Kronkite, Reasoner ... we don't have their equivalents on the 'Net. We can't trust anyone to tell the truth.
That's why more and more I'm simply withdrawing from the news.
jrfromafar
New Dementia-ions of Funk
- Location
- California Sierra Nevada Foothills
Sometimes - heck, ALL the time lately - it becomes tiresome to back-check all these people. It used to be, back before the Internet, that we had people we could trust to tell us the truth, the well-researched truth. Brinkley, Huntley, Kronkite, Reasoner ... we don't have their equivalents on the 'Net. We can't trust anyone to tell the truth.
That's why more and more I'm simply withdrawing from the news.
Very true. I recall Abraham Lincoln said that over 50% of what you read on the internet is false.
dbeyat45
Professional Stirrer
- Location
- SE Queensland, Australia
Smart move Phil .... if we had any true investigative reporters these days, we would have known long ago that the AGW theory was bogus.Sometimes - heck, ALL the time lately - it becomes tiresome to back-check all these people. It used to be, back before the Internet, that we had people we could trust to tell us the truth, the well-researched truth. Brinkley, Huntley, Kronkite, Reasoner ... we don't have their equivalents on the 'Net. We can't trust anyone to tell the truth.
That's why more and more I'm simply withdrawing from the news.
Davey Jones
Well-known Member
- Location
- Florida
Here's something interesting from a marine ecologist. He claims that all the maladies caused by industrial pollution is being blamed on Fukushima.
http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=15903
I'd say he knows more than your average bear.... Lol - he at least knows more than I do
He must be a Democrat.(g)
That Guy
Homegrown Unknown
- Location
- Monterey Bay
Democrat Shmemocrat. When we fall for the petty divisions that keep us infighting . . . well, divide and conquer sounds familiar. Only if we all pull together with the goal of toppling the corrupt power structure keeping the populace conveniently sedated with news of useless fear mongering will true improvements to the living conditions of all the people be realized. I can dream can't I . . . ?!?
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
That's probably because he only had dial-up ...
Alas, now we'll never know for sure ...
... and The Dude of the Waves, his body clad in the baggiest samite trunks, held aloft his Rip Curl board from the bosom of the water, signifying by Divine Providence that he, That Guy, was to carry on the fight for Independent Thinking ...
That Guy
Homegrown Unknown
- Location
- Monterey Bay
I love my different drummer...!
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
Sometimes - heck, ALL the time lately - it becomes tiresome to back-check all these people. It used to be, back before the Internet, that we had people we could trust to tell us the truth, the well-researched truth. Brinkley, Huntley, Kronkite, Reasoner ... we don't have their equivalents on the 'Net. We can't trust anyone to tell the truth.
That's why more and more I'm simply withdrawing from the news.
How sure are you that they weren't playing exactly the same media games back then as now? How could we know?
Somewhat contentious ramble....
Take the whole Kennedy legend. The JFK we, or at least I, saw through media reports was a very different persona than was obviously 'sold' in the US. We had access to reports and opinions from our own, and the UK's news feeds as well as some from the US and they didn't always gel at all. The reporting in the US of things Kennedy amounted to pure propaganda compaired other opinions. The more irreverent and cycnical attitudes from 'foreign' media threw much of the whole thing into an entirely different light.
The 'Camelot' mirage, seemingly swallowed whole as a wonderful Disney movie in the US, we were seeing more as Woody Allen would have made it. It was scary and funny at the same time.
Imagine if the Murdoch press had taken a set on JFK and chosen to 'do a job' on his personal life? A 'real' job, as they've done on a few here and the UK. But Rupe's press wasn't in evidence back then and the US media seemed to treat JFK with absolute reverence so how much faith can you put in everything else you were getting from those sage and trusted journos of the past? You only got what they wanted you to see.
Sorry to say it but 'we/I' have, in the past, considered the US somewhat naive in their outlook on world doings. There were those voices who went against the flow but they were considered a bit 'radical' by the majority thinking. Any revelations that didn't fit the propaganda only appeared in scandal mags and 'radical' rags, and in folk music.
Of course our view that the US people were naive was only based on an overall knowledge gleaned, again, from media and movies.
We didn't have the internet to converse with those people one on one as we do here, on this forum for example. Did we really know anything much at all about how our different 'cultures' ticked, as individuals?
We generalise about cultures based on the outer shell of what we see of them, we never before had the opportunity to see those cultures at grass roots level. So was it really the population who appeared naive, or was it the media who presumed everyone was? Even today we tend to only see the biggest idiot handy who is grabbed to comment on some newsy event. The media desperately want to portray everybody as idiots who need their superior intelligence for 'guidance'.
Of course there really are plenty of idiots out there but is it the media's brief to con them? Or to present facts fairly to educate them?
I must admit to wondering if America wasn't every bit as under the thumb of propaganda as were the Communist nations they derided so vehemently.
That the McCarthy era ever happened there has to tell you some deeper agenda to control the media was in play back then surely?
Why would they have been so afraid of any leftist views getting into the ears of the population?
It was self evident that Communism was never going to be an option chosen by the US people. So what were they really so afraid of, if not merely a different viewpoint being expressed, that might have spoiled the pretty picture they were painting of how things were, and where America stood in the World?
Why are Americans so constantly surprised and disappointed that they are resented by others in the World who see things differently to how they are painted in the US? How do the American people think they are viewed from 'outside?' What was sold as 'liberation' in the US media is an 'invasion' by other media accounts.
Was that other viewpoint ever given much of an airing? Was the massive amounts of foreign aid painted as a virtuous bestowing of assistance to less fortunate nations by the US media, while being seen as pure bribery and cynical payoffs from other viewpoints?
I think we get the message in OZ that what we 'aid' Indo with is little more than extortion payments, and that aid 'donated' in Asia is paving footpaths to build businesses along. We have a few basket cases in the S.Pacific to support for no returns but the majority of aid money goes to our own benefit, or to the benefit of the pollies who want to impress the UN with our taxpayers' munificence to advance their own future careers in it's ranks.
I'm feeling a bit game this morning, haven't even had a coffee yet but I'm genuinely curious and we're talking media spin and public perceptions formed from it so I'll risk it and ask.
:shark:
What was your individual reactions to seeing the live footage of Dubya's first bombs hitting Bagdhad? Do you remember what you were thinking watching that? How was the media presenting it? Was any journo opinion of possible ramifications given? Or was it all 'gung ho' we'll show them stuff? Do you remember?
I can remember it vividly. I sat and watched and waited for the countdown to the deadline. Various foreign corro journos reporting from the M.East expressed deep concern for outcomes if it went ahead. Did any of those reports get seen there?
I still believed, up until the last second, that sanity would prevail and the threat not be carried out. But when those first explosions came I thought "Oh no. This is SO wrong! This is just wrong!"
It went against what America was supposed to personify. Against what even I still harboured hope was basically what it really did personify.
It was 'sold' as being a 'War against Terror' and upholding American values of peace and justice, but was it?
Bombing Baghdad appeared more like what China did to Tibet!
It amounted to killing a Country to get rid of one man.
And not even against the right 'man' or people at that!
It wasn't the action of the peacekeeping World's policeman, it came across as a petty vengeful reaction of a thug, that inflicted destruction on all, to avenge the actions of a few. Wasn't it Osama that bombed the Towers, not Saddam? So what did Baghdad have to with that 'righteous revenge' thing again??
Then the cynical view that it was Big Oil, not America wreaking vengeance set in. That was the day America 'lost it' status wise in the view of me and many I think. It was deeply disappointing.
But again, that was just the view from 'here.' And we too are only able to make judgement based on what the media allows us to see. Although I suspect we may have a wider range to choose from. We seem to know a lot more about the World than it knows, or cares to find out, about us.
Not that I gave a tinkers about the Arabs at heart, but it was just 'diplomacy' at it's absolute most moronic. What's happened since proves I wasn't far out in that. But what was your views of it from your living rooms? What did you think of it? Were you a little worried, like the rest of us, about the 'rightness' of it? Were you even as interested in it as I was?
What exactly did you think the real reason for it was? Doesn't matter what the reason was, just curious to know how you viewed it personally.
How long did the American public 'buy' that War against Terror propaganda? Did you ever really buy it, personally?
However we view any nation doesn't reflect on it's population as a whole, we only see it as it's Government presents it. It's great to be able to look behind the smoke and mirrors and hear what it's people actually think about it all. That can be a whole other picture.
We have never had any illusions of our position on the World totem pole. OZ never had any real status to protect and so we could afford to look more closely and cynically at ourselves and have a laugh at our politicians' diplomatic mistakes. It was only other Nation's diplomatic mistakes that got us into any real trouble. Being the little guy has it's advantages sometimes.:friendly_wink:
The 'Camelot' mirage, seemingly swallowed whole as a wonderful Disney movie in the US, we were seeing more as Woody Allen would have made it. It was scary and funny at the same time.
Imagine if the Murdoch press had taken a set on JFK and chosen to 'do a job' on his personal life? A 'real' job, as they've done on a few here and the UK. But Rupe's press wasn't in evidence back then and the US media seemed to treat JFK with absolute reverence so how much faith can you put in everything else you were getting from those sage and trusted journos of the past? You only got what they wanted you to see.
Sorry to say it but 'we/I' have, in the past, considered the US somewhat naive in their outlook on world doings. There were those voices who went against the flow but they were considered a bit 'radical' by the majority thinking. Any revelations that didn't fit the propaganda only appeared in scandal mags and 'radical' rags, and in folk music.
Of course our view that the US people were naive was only based on an overall knowledge gleaned, again, from media and movies.
We didn't have the internet to converse with those people one on one as we do here, on this forum for example. Did we really know anything much at all about how our different 'cultures' ticked, as individuals?
We generalise about cultures based on the outer shell of what we see of them, we never before had the opportunity to see those cultures at grass roots level. So was it really the population who appeared naive, or was it the media who presumed everyone was? Even today we tend to only see the biggest idiot handy who is grabbed to comment on some newsy event. The media desperately want to portray everybody as idiots who need their superior intelligence for 'guidance'.
Of course there really are plenty of idiots out there but is it the media's brief to con them? Or to present facts fairly to educate them?
I must admit to wondering if America wasn't every bit as under the thumb of propaganda as were the Communist nations they derided so vehemently.
That the McCarthy era ever happened there has to tell you some deeper agenda to control the media was in play back then surely?
Why would they have been so afraid of any leftist views getting into the ears of the population?
It was self evident that Communism was never going to be an option chosen by the US people. So what were they really so afraid of, if not merely a different viewpoint being expressed, that might have spoiled the pretty picture they were painting of how things were, and where America stood in the World?
Why are Americans so constantly surprised and disappointed that they are resented by others in the World who see things differently to how they are painted in the US? How do the American people think they are viewed from 'outside?' What was sold as 'liberation' in the US media is an 'invasion' by other media accounts.
Was that other viewpoint ever given much of an airing? Was the massive amounts of foreign aid painted as a virtuous bestowing of assistance to less fortunate nations by the US media, while being seen as pure bribery and cynical payoffs from other viewpoints?
I think we get the message in OZ that what we 'aid' Indo with is little more than extortion payments, and that aid 'donated' in Asia is paving footpaths to build businesses along. We have a few basket cases in the S.Pacific to support for no returns but the majority of aid money goes to our own benefit, or to the benefit of the pollies who want to impress the UN with our taxpayers' munificence to advance their own future careers in it's ranks.
I'm feeling a bit game this morning, haven't even had a coffee yet but I'm genuinely curious and we're talking media spin and public perceptions formed from it so I'll risk it and ask.
:shark:
What was your individual reactions to seeing the live footage of Dubya's first bombs hitting Bagdhad? Do you remember what you were thinking watching that? How was the media presenting it? Was any journo opinion of possible ramifications given? Or was it all 'gung ho' we'll show them stuff? Do you remember?
I can remember it vividly. I sat and watched and waited for the countdown to the deadline. Various foreign corro journos reporting from the M.East expressed deep concern for outcomes if it went ahead. Did any of those reports get seen there?
I still believed, up until the last second, that sanity would prevail and the threat not be carried out. But when those first explosions came I thought "Oh no. This is SO wrong! This is just wrong!"
It went against what America was supposed to personify. Against what even I still harboured hope was basically what it really did personify.
It was 'sold' as being a 'War against Terror' and upholding American values of peace and justice, but was it?
Bombing Baghdad appeared more like what China did to Tibet!
It amounted to killing a Country to get rid of one man.
And not even against the right 'man' or people at that!
It wasn't the action of the peacekeeping World's policeman, it came across as a petty vengeful reaction of a thug, that inflicted destruction on all, to avenge the actions of a few. Wasn't it Osama that bombed the Towers, not Saddam? So what did Baghdad have to with that 'righteous revenge' thing again??
Then the cynical view that it was Big Oil, not America wreaking vengeance set in. That was the day America 'lost it' status wise in the view of me and many I think. It was deeply disappointing.
But again, that was just the view from 'here.' And we too are only able to make judgement based on what the media allows us to see. Although I suspect we may have a wider range to choose from. We seem to know a lot more about the World than it knows, or cares to find out, about us.
Not that I gave a tinkers about the Arabs at heart, but it was just 'diplomacy' at it's absolute most moronic. What's happened since proves I wasn't far out in that. But what was your views of it from your living rooms? What did you think of it? Were you a little worried, like the rest of us, about the 'rightness' of it? Were you even as interested in it as I was?
What exactly did you think the real reason for it was? Doesn't matter what the reason was, just curious to know how you viewed it personally.
How long did the American public 'buy' that War against Terror propaganda? Did you ever really buy it, personally?
However we view any nation doesn't reflect on it's population as a whole, we only see it as it's Government presents it. It's great to be able to look behind the smoke and mirrors and hear what it's people actually think about it all. That can be a whole other picture.
We have never had any illusions of our position on the World totem pole. OZ never had any real status to protect and so we could afford to look more closely and cynically at ourselves and have a laugh at our politicians' diplomatic mistakes. It was only other Nation's diplomatic mistakes that got us into any real trouble. Being the little guy has it's advantages sometimes.:friendly_wink:
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
To be honest, I don't even recall the bombing. It's the kind of thing that I filter out, because to allow all of that into my "mind palace" (thanks, Sherlock) would make the place unlivable.
I'm like a lot of other people - I just want to live my life, and it's hard enough doing that with all the media-generated static we have nowadays.
Another thing is that in my personal timeline Vietnam was winding down just as I was coming of age, and I recall listening to all the arguments pro and con and thinking how insane it all was, and how neither side was right. That set the mold for future world affairs for me.
Short-sighted? Yes. Not a "responsible citizen of the world"? Probably. I pick and choose my battles; if I opened myself up to everything the world is throwing at me I'd be in a padded cell. I live in a small world, one that I understand and trust. Anything outside the orbit of that world is suspect and has to really prove itself before it gains admission.
I'm like a lot of other people - I just want to live my life, and it's hard enough doing that with all the media-generated static we have nowadays.
Another thing is that in my personal timeline Vietnam was winding down just as I was coming of age, and I recall listening to all the arguments pro and con and thinking how insane it all was, and how neither side was right. That set the mold for future world affairs for me.
Short-sighted? Yes. Not a "responsible citizen of the world"? Probably. I pick and choose my battles; if I opened myself up to everything the world is throwing at me I'd be in a padded cell. I live in a small world, one that I understand and trust. Anything outside the orbit of that world is suspect and has to really prove itself before it gains admission.
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
I can relate to that. I see myself as watching and commenting on what I can see through the electronic spy holes in my low profile, well camouflaged safe little bird hide. What and how things are happening around me is fascinating to watch while I hold no desire whatever to physically participate in it.
Some things I don't want to see or know about either. But I can only cut them out if they don't impinge on what else is going on.
If they are part of the cause for something then I bite the bullet and find out as much as I need to know about how they fit the picture.
I'm fairly much restricted to mental exercise now and have the time to indulge the curiosity, but realise most don't and aren't near as interested in looking into the whys and wherefors of events. It's like a jigsaw puzzle and finding the pieces that fit is the most fun to be had from it. I've learned to love learnin' new stuff to satisfy curiosity as a hobby. But to each his own.
That you 'don't even remember the bombing' adds volumes to my views on how we are affected by what media tells us. Why was I riveted by watching historic events live when others hardly recall them?
... and you think you may be OCD, what's that make me??.:hypnotysed:
Some things I don't want to see or know about either. But I can only cut them out if they don't impinge on what else is going on.
If they are part of the cause for something then I bite the bullet and find out as much as I need to know about how they fit the picture.
I'm fairly much restricted to mental exercise now and have the time to indulge the curiosity, but realise most don't and aren't near as interested in looking into the whys and wherefors of events. It's like a jigsaw puzzle and finding the pieces that fit is the most fun to be had from it. I've learned to love learnin' new stuff to satisfy curiosity as a hobby. But to each his own.
That you 'don't even remember the bombing' adds volumes to my views on how we are affected by what media tells us. Why was I riveted by watching historic events live when others hardly recall them?
... and you think you may be OCD, what's that make me??.:hypnotysed:
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
ADHD?
I'm now wondering what percentage our genetic preferences play in watching or doing. As they tell us in those cheesy motivational seminars there are dreamers and there are doers, the doers being lauded as world-changers while the dreamers are relegated to some virtual old-age home.
Yet the act of doing is sure to bring about complications, some of which are going to be less than pleasant. People look in awe at the movers and shakers of the world, those who boldly stride into the fray and "fix things", but it's that very attitude that has lead us into wars, famine and the Edsel.
Much better to sit and watch the human comedy from the sidelines, at least after you've made your own appearances on the stage. I think there comes a point where the rah-rah no longer affects us, where the entreaties to push-push-push fall on deaf ears. We've been there and done that, and if the results of our efforts were less than amazing we might be too gun-shy to try again.
That's when we become spectators.
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
I never forget a line from a still trying hard hazbeen comedian who turned to painting up in the hills with other well heeled urban hippies.
When asked what the lifestyle was like in that community he said "It's the place where failed bitter city folk to go lead arty crafty lives." bingo! I think of it every time I get inspired to daub. :rofl:
Ever the dreamer here I'm afraid, don't think I ever actually finished a big project in my whole life. Love designing 'em but once I get that right it's enough. It just gets filed.
When asked what the lifestyle was like in that community he said "It's the place where failed bitter city folk to go lead arty crafty lives." bingo! I think of it every time I get inspired to daub. :rofl:
Ever the dreamer here I'm afraid, don't think I ever actually finished a big project in my whole life. Love designing 'em but once I get that right it's enough. It just gets filed.
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
Di, I can really relate to what you are saying about watching out from your little safe place, and trying to discern what is going on in the world.
I seem to take turns from trying to search out the information to see what the real truth is, to the pendulum swinging back the other way, and I don't even pay attention to what is going on, and just think about something simple (and actually related to my life) like planting flowers or veggies for my little garden.
We used to just have news, first from the radio, and then tv, and it was pretty much all the same, just one view of things.
Now, we have the internet, and we have actual input from eyewitnesses, that don't agree with the original story; plus the alternative news sources, that report some pretty far out views, like Queen Elizabeth being an alien lizard person.
We have to pick our way through the diverse reports, and try to decide what is true, if any.
So, I enjoy reading about all of the different views, and entertaining the possibility that the world is totally different than we are being told.
Maybe the intervention theory is right, and we were created by aliens, or developed from hybrids. Maybe not, but it is very intriguing to read about these ideas, in any case.
I remember when the 9-11 attacks were first announced, they said over the radio that the plane headed for the White House had been shot down by the military, but after that one early announcement, it was changed to the "hero story" of the passengers overcoming the terrorists, and crashing the plane.
When they were chasing down the so-called renegade police officer in California, I was listening on the scanner, and you could plainly hear him screaming as he tried to surrender, and they were shooting him, and forcing him back inside to burn alive. Yet, the official report was that he refused to give up, and committed suicide. (He probably did commit suicide, since he had no other option than burning to death, but he was definitely NOT allowed to surrender when he tried to come out.)
So, much of our news is slanted one way or another, and we can either pick our way through the conflicting stories, looking for truth, or just go and plant our flowers, and forget it all.
I seem to take turns from trying to search out the information to see what the real truth is, to the pendulum swinging back the other way, and I don't even pay attention to what is going on, and just think about something simple (and actually related to my life) like planting flowers or veggies for my little garden.
We used to just have news, first from the radio, and then tv, and it was pretty much all the same, just one view of things.
Now, we have the internet, and we have actual input from eyewitnesses, that don't agree with the original story; plus the alternative news sources, that report some pretty far out views, like Queen Elizabeth being an alien lizard person.
We have to pick our way through the diverse reports, and try to decide what is true, if any.
So, I enjoy reading about all of the different views, and entertaining the possibility that the world is totally different than we are being told.
Maybe the intervention theory is right, and we were created by aliens, or developed from hybrids. Maybe not, but it is very intriguing to read about these ideas, in any case.
I remember when the 9-11 attacks were first announced, they said over the radio that the plane headed for the White House had been shot down by the military, but after that one early announcement, it was changed to the "hero story" of the passengers overcoming the terrorists, and crashing the plane.
When they were chasing down the so-called renegade police officer in California, I was listening on the scanner, and you could plainly hear him screaming as he tried to surrender, and they were shooting him, and forcing him back inside to burn alive. Yet, the official report was that he refused to give up, and committed suicide. (He probably did commit suicide, since he had no other option than burning to death, but he was definitely NOT allowed to surrender when he tried to come out.)
So, much of our news is slanted one way or another, and we can either pick our way through the conflicting stories, looking for truth, or just go and plant our flowers, and forget it all.