Have you ever met a psychopath or sociopath?

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
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How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath

Understanding important distinctions between criminal sociopaths and psychopaths



https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath



Many forensic psychologists, psychiatrists and criminologists use the terms sociopathy and psychopathy interchangeably. Leading experts disagree on whether there are meaningful differences between the two conditions. I contend that there are clear and significant distinctions between them.

The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), released by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013, lists both sociopathy and psychopathy under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorders (ASPD). These disorders share many common behavioural traits which lead to the confusion between them. Key traits that sociopaths and psychopaths have in common, include:

  • A disregard for laws and social mores
  • A disregard for the rights of others
  • A failure to feel remorse or guilt
  • A tendency to display violent behaviour

In addition to their commonalities, sociopaths and psychopaths also have their own unique behavioural characteristics, as well.
Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.
When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue. Intelligent psychopaths make excellent white-collar criminals and "con artists" due to their calm and charismatic natures.
The cause of psychopathy is different than the cause of sociopathy (1). It is believed that psychopathy is the largely the result of “nature” (genetics) while sociopathy is more likely the result of “nurture” (environment). Psychopathy is related to a physiological defect that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions. Sociopathy, on the other hand, is more likely the product of childhood trauma and physical/emotional abuse. Because sociopathy appears to be learned rather than innate, sociopaths are capable of empathy in certain limited circumstances but not in others, and with a few individuals but not others.

Psychopathy is the most dangerous of all antisocial personality disorders because of the way psychopaths dissociate emotionally from their actions, regardless of how terrible those actions may be. Many prolific and notorious serial killers, including the late Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy, and the incarcerated Dennis Rader ("Bind, Torture, Kill" or BTK) are unremorseful psychopaths. Psychopathic killers view their innocent victims as inhuman objects to be tormented and exterminated for their own amusement or even sexual gratification.

Contrary to popular mythology, most serial killers are not mentally ill in either a clinical or legal sense nor are they "evil" geniuses. At least 40 percent of all serial killers are unrepentant psychopaths.
 

Yes, yes I have

seems wunna my poster creations is in order (forgive me)

Zw5xCzY.jpg
 
Before I became a State Trooper, I went to one of the area's local community colleges to earn an A.D. in Criminal Justice. During those two years, we had several classes about Sociopaths and Psychopaths. One of the comments made by an instructor stood out in my mind. He had once made the comment that these two terms were developed for legal purposes, so when suspects went on trial, the DA and/or defense attorney had something more to call the suspect, defendant (or their client) a psycho or another form of mental illness

I think without a doubt, there are more Sociopaths walking around in society than there are Psychopaths. I would have thought that all serial killers would have been described as being Psychopaths, but evidently that's not the case. For example; I have heard Timothy McVeigh called a Sociopath and other serial killers like; John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy and Ted Kaczynski called Psychopaths.

It seems to me that the easiest method by which to determine the state of one's criminal mind is that it's the degree of the depravity that determines if a person is a Sociopath or a Psychopath. Yes or no? I would also think that a murderer that dismember's their victim's body would be a Psychopath, but again, I have seen and heard in court, one such person being called a Sociopath and then in another trial with a different suspect, that person being labeled as a Psychopath.

I have also seen a defendant on trial and the Prosecutor's expert Psychiatrist call the defendant a Psychopath and a day later when the defense's expert Psychiatrist takes the stand call the defendant a Sociopath. So, tell me, isn't it a fine line between the two, or are the two competing attorneys just looking for an edge with the jury? After all, in my mind, it would be better to be called a Sociopath than a Psychopath. Just the sound of the word, "Psychopath" makes it sound like the man is a nut case.

Either way or whatever term the defendant is called, it doesn't guarantee an insanity defense will hold up in court, although, I have seen a jury buy into the theory that if a defendant is declared to be a Psychopath then he/she is also insane. As you may be able to tell, I have always been confused by these two terms, but only because of what I have witnessed in court. One trial, they are this and in another trail they are that.
 

YES...with a Capital....YES...and unfortunately she was my Boss... she was an archetypal sociopath, ticked all the boxes... , absolute nightmare of a woman...she lied, cheated, stole and was a master manipulator... I hope to God, and I really mean this, that I never meet another person in my life like her.
 
Never met either one in person, but on various social forums I've run into a few.

No, I don't mean you, it's that other person. You know who I mean.

Peace and love
Hoot
 
I'm very glad the thread topic has created so much interest (and with such a "Seasonally appropriate, and jolly title").

I expected to find a lot of responses saying "Yes, I was married to one of them" (either a sociopath or psychopath, although as described in the OP, sociopaths are unlikely to form relationships).

I'm not sure if I've ever met either category, though the description of the boss who was such a nightmare above, does ring some bells!
 
Interesting...I heard Scott Peterson described as a sociopath numerous times during his trial by everyone's favorite anchor woman...
Guess she needs to go back to law school!
 
Years ago I went on two dates with a friend of a friend. While we were eating dinner on our second date, he said when he was a teenager his parents took him to a psychiatrist; the psychiatrist told his parents afterward that he was a sociopath. He laughed and said he got back at the psychiatrist by claiming he molested him and got his license suspended temporarily. He actually thought it was very funny and was surprised i didn't.

I changed my phone number and refused to give my new number to his matchmaker friend. I figure I dodged a bullet, especially when I met some people who knew him. Scary guy.
 
Definitely dodged a bullet

Smiling Jane said:
Years ago I went on two dates with a friend of a friend. While we were eating dinner on our second date, he said when he was a teenager his parents took him to a psychiatrist; the psychiatrist told his parents afterward that he was a sociopath. He laughed and said he got back at the psychiatrist by claiming he molested him and got his license suspended temporarily. He actually thought it was very funny and was surprised i didn't.

I changed my phone number and refused to give my new number to his matchmaker friend. I figure I dodged a bullet, especially when I met some people who knew him. Scary guy.
Click to expand...

It certainly sounds as though you dodged a bullet so far as that guy is concerned, though hopefully you'd have tumbled something was wrong with him sooner or later.

People are being pretty respectful of their ex.'s so far on the thread, which is a good thing of course.

I have heard of negative opinions given by others (friends and neighbours) in relation to couples associated with their family, such as someone married to their son, or sister/sister-in-law. One said her sister-in-law was a "psychopathic freak of nature", and another said of his daughter-in-law, she's a "psychopath and a schizophrenic", and I'm not entirely sure they we joking :confused: !
 
I can truly say I had lunch with a psychopath
Almost 50 years ago
Only details I’ll say is he talked about offing someone in the same breath he lamented the quality of his dry cleaning
 
So far, in my career, I have met two. They didn’t like therapy, which was mandated, but they enjoyed trying to manipulate and frighten me. When I wouldn’t play their games, they became volatile. One of them lost it, and attacked. He blamed me for his problems at work. Thank goodness for self defence training and stiletto heels.
 
My Mother and My Boss. My Boss is a bigtime psychopath. Her two boys are in their mid twenties and in a SuperMax prison for planning the murder of a man in the town where I work.
He was apparently having an affair with one of the boys wife. Except after the murder, they found out she lied. He barely knew her but got murdered for a brief conversation. Before I learned of this, after working their a few years and seeing what went on, it was already clear she was a psychopath. Lets just say they take after their mother

Otherwise, I don't think I've met any others offhand. My mom is pretty dangerous also, we had to move over it. She stalked us, hired people to find me and harass me. Calls us and threatens us.
Tried to prevent my Dad from getting medical care during a heart attack which he got to the phone and called me so I picked him up. Then that started it...end ended with estrangement.

I've always been afraid of her but never could pin-point exactly why until late in life.

They say around 10% of the population fits this category and most are not dangerous so clearly, I've met other psychopath & Sociopath unawares.
 
911 said:
Before I became a State Trooper, I went to one of the area's local community colleges to earn an A.D. in Criminal Justice. During those two years, we had several classes about Sociopaths and Psychopaths. One of the comments made by an instructor stood out in my mind. He had once made the comment that these two terms were developed for legal purposes, so when suspects went on trial, the DA and/or defense attorney had something more to call the suspect, defendant (or their client) a psycho or another form of mental illness

I think without a doubt, there are more Sociopaths walking around in society than there are Psychopaths. I would have thought that all serial killers would have been described as being Psychopaths, but evidently that's not the case. For example; I have heard Timothy McVeigh called a Sociopath and other serial killers like; John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy and Ted Kaczynski called Psychopaths.

It seems to me that the easiest method by which to determine the state of one's criminal mind is that it's the degree of the depravity that determines if a person is a Sociopath or a Psychopath. Yes or no? I would also think that a murderer that dismember's their victim's body would be a Psychopath, but again, I have seen and heard in court, one such person being called a Sociopath and then in another trial with a different suspect, that person being labeled as a Psychopath.

I have also seen a defendant on trial and the Prosecutor's expert Psychiatrist call the defendant a Psychopath and a day later when the defense's expert Psychiatrist takes the stand call the defendant a Sociopath. So, tell me, isn't it a fine line between the two, or are the two competing attorneys just looking for an edge with the jury? After all, in my mind, it would be better to be called a Sociopath than a Psychopath. Just the sound of the word, "Psychopath" makes it sound like the man is a nut case.

Either way or whatever term the defendant is called, it doesn't guarantee an insanity defense will hold up in court, although, I have seen a jury buy into the theory that if a defendant is declared to be a Psychopath then he/she is also insane. As you may be able to tell, I have always been confused by these two terms, but only because of what I have witnessed in court. One trial, they are this and in another trail they are that.
Click to expand...

I thought I knew the difference before reading this post. I thought a sociopath was cognizant and responsible but uncaring of others with no sense of moral responsibility, while a psychopath heard voices directing his/her actions and was therefore less responsible for his/her actions because of this?

I've got some reading to do.
 
I have, unfortunately known several psychopaths/sociopaths in my life, 2 males and 1 female. To me the terms are interchangeable . At one point the DSM used the term psychopath and later changed it to sociopath. That then evolved into anti-social personality. As they say, 'a rose by any other name...

IMO , the hallmark of a psychopath/sociopath is that they place their needs and desires above those of anyone else and they are incapable of feeling any guilt. They are users of people. They take, and rarely, if ever, give in return. Example: a man or women who will buy new clothes for themselves, while hungry children wait at home, is such a person.

One thing is surely true. You don't want to be stranded on a desert island with one, if there is a shortage of food.
 
After giving this subject more thought, I called a friend of mine who is a psychologist and asked him to explain to me what the difference was between the two psychosis. I had to sort through the lingo that he was using to try and come to a conclusive answer and what I came to was what I had stated earlier. It depends on the degree of the depravity of his or her actions as to what a person's psychosis would be determined.

I also came to the conclusion that a Psychopath could be labeled as a Sociopath, but not the reverse, which tells me that being a Psychopath is worse than being a Sociopath. A Psychopath has all of the tendencies of a Sociopath, but the Psychopath takes it one step (at least) further than does the Sociopath. A sociopath lacks social skills and usually will be the guy or gal sitting in the corner at a party waiting for someone to approach them and engage them in a conversation, but so will a Psychopath. The difference here is that if the Psychopath does not become engaged by anyone, he may lash out by doing harm to another person just so that he is noticed, which brings us to another issue that a Psychopath will have and that is Narcissism. If a Sociopath is not engaged, he/she will simply pick up his/her ball and go home and pout.

As an example of a true Psycho path, let's look at Charles Roberts, who was the killer of the little Amish girls in Pennsylvania. After his death and the investigation was completed, it was determined that this man carried around a 20 year secret that, if it is to be believed, was his confession that he had molested little girls. To this day, I still don't believe that the true motive has been released. Before this incident, he had no police reports against him and had never had any issues with the law. I think that I was the third or fourth Trooper on the scene. We had learned that upon his arrival at the school, he had all of the boys and teacher remove themselves from the classroom. Then, he proceeded to tie the girl's ankles together and lined them up in front of the classroom facing the blackboard. After a brief exchange of phone conversations with the police, he began to shoot the girls, which is when we decided to storm the building. As we entered the one room school, he put his 9mm to his head and pulled the trigger. I picked up one little girl that was still moving and moaning and rushed her to one of the ambulances where and EMT took charge of her. Unfortunately, she died a few minutes later, or so I was told. My uniform was soaked with her blood and I decided to destroy it. It should never be worn again.

The investigation also showed that besides having no police record, he also did not have any psychiatric issues and never was attended to by a Psychologist or Psychiatrist. He was found to have a cache of weapons with him and numerous rounds of ammo. He was definitely a man on a mission. The reason why he dismissed the teacher, who was also a female was determined to be because he was only wanting to kill young children. Charles was actually a very good family man with three children. He coached soccer and little league and tended to them when they were babies, as well, with changing diapers, feeding and caring for them. However, after carrying this grudge for twenty years, he snapped and wanted to settle the score.

This man was a true Psychopath.
 
Very hard to follow the above post but here are some more links and info:

The Nature of a Sociopath
https://eyesofasociopath.weebly.com/statistics.html


The lack of conscience and an inability to feel remorse are the underlying factors. They do not have the ability to make and keep friends. The sociopathic personality is initially viewed as charming until the casual deception shines through their skilful masterful manipulation. They have the skilful aptitude for lying and cheating. They have no capacity to feel guilt.

Sociopath Statistics

The sociopath makes up approximately 3 to 5 percent of the general population. According to the American Psychiatric Association, about three out of 100 males and one in 100 are sociopaths. Approximately 70 percent of sociopaths who come from fatherless homes and 30 percent are born out of wedlock.

Break

Hare (1993) indicated that the term sociopath infers the possession of psychopathic personality traits, but those traits are derived only from social influences, as opposed to physical or biochemical origins. Hare is an authority on psychopathic personality, and his work indicates that not all psychopaths are considered criminals.

​
 
chic said:
I thought I knew the difference before reading this post. I thought a sociopath was cognizant and responsible but uncaring of others with no sense of moral responsibility, while a psychopath heard voices directing his/her actions and was therefore less responsible for his/her actions because of this?

I've got some reading to do.
Click to expand...

Chic, there is a difference between a psychopath and a psychotic. The psychotic is the one who often hears voices. A psychotic is not in touch with reality ie they may not know where they are, of what time they live in, or they might think they are other people, etc
 
911 said:
After giving this subject more thought, I called a friend of mine who is a psychologist and asked him to explain to me what the difference was between the two psychosis. I had to sort through the lingo that he was using to try and come to a conclusive answer and what I came to was what I had stated earlier. It depends on the degree of the depravity of his or her actions as to what a person's psychosis would be determined.

I also came to the conclusion that a Psychopath could be labeled as a Sociopath, but not the reverse, which tells me that being a Psychopath is worse than being a Sociopath. A Psychopath has all of the tendencies of a Sociopath, but the Psychopath takes it one step (at least) further than does the Sociopath. A sociopath lacks social skills and usually will be the guy or gal sitting in the corner at a party waiting for someone to approach them and engage them in a conversation, but so will a Psychopath. The difference here is that if the Psychopath does not become engaged by anyone, he may lash out by doing harm to another person just so that he is noticed, which brings us to another issue that a Psychopath will have and that is Narcissism. If a Sociopath is not engaged, he/she will simply pick up his/her ball and go home and pout.
Click to expand...

I disagree with one small part of the troopers assessment. The person sitting in the corner at a party could very well have feelings of inferiority or just be terribly shy. Though, the psychopath/sociopath might also demonstrate the same.
 
I don't know which category this man fell under but he always was trying to intimidate me. I have even been afraid of him since he died. He beat me up pretty bad once. He was related to someone I knew. I had a terrible fear of him for many many many years. I guess that was his main thing, to scare me real bad. He succeeded. The last time I was persuaded by his daughter to talk to him and talked to him on the phone a few years back I did tell him that I wasn't the scared little girl he used to know any more in a very angry tone. I refused to meet him again. I kept wondering why he kept trying to intimidate me, like it was my fault. Think I am beginning to see it was him and not me.
 
Butterfly said:
I'm pretty sure I've worked for a couple of sociopaths.
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I read an interesting article a few years ago that said it's not at all unusual for high-functioning sociopaths to become business executives and that it's actually a good fit for them. They also gravitate to some medical specialties that don't require ongoing supportive patient contact, like surgeons and anesthesiologists. Certain legal specialties also work well for sociopaths because they don't require much client interface.

Of course no one discusses the revolving door support staff who discover the money they make working with these people will never be worth the emotional toll.
 

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