Dear God, another school shooting?

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C'est Moi said:
Teasing and bullying has been around since teenagers were invented. There is something seriously wrong with society today, and I believe the problem begins at home. Coddled, spoiled and "participation trophies" give today's youth a false sense of entitlement.
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Boy, that has got to come into play somewhere
 

Another sad tragedy. May the victims rest peacefully, my sympathy to the families and the survivors. :(
 

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more precision and intent here

The killer spared people he liked so they could tell his story. 4 pipe bombs found around the school and couple at is home. The shootings were in an art class. The killer yelled "Surprise". A second suspect was taken into custody.

The teenage/now adult killer used a shotgun which ment he had to pick out his victims taking his time, aiming and firing with much more intent and purpose than more recent mass school killings.

https://www.sfgate.com/technology/b...ool-gunman-reportedly-yelled-out-12927411.php
 
Falcon said:
True Chic, BUT there are some folks who don't really have the qualifications to teach every subject.

I'll betcha you know a few who would never qualify for YOUR kids.
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I was thinking that kids could be educated via computers by qualified teachers while safely at home. Like teleconferencing. We can now receive college degrees online, so why not high school or middle school as well.
 
I don't have the answer but there are two things I'm sure of, A.) there have always been a surplus of guns in America and B.) there have always been mentally ill. Yet these mass shootings are a relatively new phenomenon in America.

Therefore, I think we must look at every other possible explanation. Some of which are listed

1.) Access to everything on the internet. Some very bizarre stuff out there.
2.) Playing violent games ie "killer" games. And, watching ultra-violent movies
3.) No one at home to supervise these kids
4.) Cell phones, where kids can bully others long distance.
5.) When we were growing up we had chores/jobs to help keep us busy. Is that true today ? (I don't know)

As readers ponder the above, ask yourselves how your teenage years compared with todays teens.

I think many, perhaps most of us, spend a great deal of spare time at our friends houses listening to 45 rpm records of early rock and roll. Our idea of being really "bad" was playing spin the bottle. Very, very few of us ever even heard about drugs and certainly never did them (at least those of us age 70 plus).

Personally, I lean in favor of #3 as a major contributing factor.
 
Traveler said:
I don't have the answer but there are two things I'm sure of, A.) there have always been a surplus of guns in America and B.) there have always been mentally ill. Yet these mass shootings are a relatively new phenomenon in America.

Therefore, I think we must look at every other possible explanation. Some of which are listed

1.) Access to everything on the internet. Some very bizarre stuff out there.
2.) Playing violent games ie "killer" games. And, watching ultra-violent movies
3.) No one at home to supervise these kids
4.) Cell phones, where kids can bully others long distance.
5.) When we were growing up we had chores/jobs to help keep us busy. Is that true today ? (I don't know)

As readers ponder the above, ask yourselves how your teenage years compared with todays teens.

I think many, perhaps most of us, spend a great deal of spare time at our friends houses listening to 45 rpm records of early rock and roll. Our idea of being really "bad" was playing spin the bottle. Very, very few of us ever even heard about drugs and certainly never did them (at least those of us age 70 plus).

Personally, I lean in favor of #3 as a major contributing factor.
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Children in virtually every first world country grow up with all five of these factors, but only in the US do our children slaughter one another. Gun violence in the US is beyond out of control - among adults as well as children. The statistics are staggering.

The difference is the volume and types of weapons easily available here versus those other countries.
 
I think at least part of the problem is that children are not taught from a young age how to deal with and respond to their anger, frustration, etc. From an early age many of them are being told they are special and that they can have/achieve anything they want, they get trophies for just showing up, and they believe that they have some kind of god given right to experience a life completely free of disappointment, frustration etc., and not coming in first in everything. When they discover this is a load of BS, some of them can't handle it and explode in rage and feel they have the right to kill or maim everyone who has treated them "unfairly." I think many of these school shootings are basically deadly mega temper tantrums and outrage at the world which has not treated them as special, and has thwarted their desires to get anything they want and be universally liked by everyone.

When I was a child I was clearly taught what was and was not an acceptable way to deal with anger and frustration and disappointment, and exploding in vicious rage was not one of those acceptable ways. I was also taught that I had no right to expect perfection in my life, and that life most decidedly was not fair, that I was intrinsically no better or worse than anyone else and that some people would like me and some would not and that whether I liked that or not it was the way the mop flopped.

I was also taught that I had absolutely no right to inflict violence on anyone or anything, save in defense against violence.
 
Butterfly said:
I think at least part of the problem is that children are not taught from a young age how to deal with and respond to their anger, frustration, etc. From an early age many of them are being told they are special and that they can have/achieve anything they want, they get trophies for just showing up, and they believe that they have some kind of god given right to experience a life completely free of disappointment, frustration etc., and not coming in first in everything. When they discover this is a load of BS, some of them can't handle it and explode in rage and feel they have the right to kill or maim everyone who has treated them "unfairly." I think many of these school shootings are basically deadly mega temper tantrums and outrage at the world which has not treated them as special, and has thwarted their desires to get anything they want and be universally liked by everyone.

When I was a child I was clearly taught what was and was not an acceptable way to deal with anger and frustration and disappointment, and exploding in vicious rage was not one of those acceptable ways. I was also taught that I had no right to expect perfection in my life, and that life most decidedly was not fair, that I was intrinsically no better or worse than anyone else and that some people would like me and some would not and that whether I liked that or not it was the way the mop flopped.

I was also taught that I had absolutely no right to inflict violence on anyone or anything, save in defense against violence.
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Boy, that's a good post

It's gotta have some credence to this horrific dilemma
 
Traveler said:
I don't have the answer but there are two things I'm sure of, A.) there have always been a surplus of guns in America and B.) there have always been mentally ill. Yet these mass shootings are a relatively new phenomenon in America.

Therefore, I think we must look at every other possible explanation. Some of which are listed

1.) Access to everything on the internet. Some very bizarre stuff out there.
2.) Playing violent games ie "killer" games. And, watching ultra-violent movies
3.) No one at home to supervise these kids
4.) Cell phones, where kids can bully others long distance.
5.) When we were growing up we had chores/jobs to help keep us busy. Is that true today ? (I don't know)

As readers ponder the above, ask yourselves how your teenage years compared with todays teens.

I think many, perhaps most of us, spend a great deal of spare time at our friends houses listening to 45 rpm records of early rock and roll. Our idea of being really "bad" was playing spin the bottle. Very, very few of us ever even heard about drugs and certainly never did them (at least those of us age 70 plus).

Personally, I lean in favor of #3 as a major contributing factor.
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I think #5 is a huge one
Heh, chores
after a kid is done, he's got less play in him
 
Traveler said:
I don't have the answer but there are two things I'm sure of, A.) there have always been a surplus of guns in America and B.) there have always been mentally ill. Yet these mass shootings are a relatively new phenomenon in America.
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StarSong said:
Children in virtually every first world country grow up with all five of these factors, but only in the US do our children slaughter one another. Gun violence in the U.S. is beyond out of control.

The difference is the volume and types of weapons easily available here versus those other countries.
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I disagree, StarSong. The recent Texas killer used a shotgun. They have been WIDELY available for well over a hundred years. Pistols much longer than that. If the major problem was too many guns, then we should have seen school shootings throughout our history. But, we don't.

In any event, what do you propose ? Banning all guns ? That, ma'am, is never, ever going to happen. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not in a hundred years. (unless we have a leftist dictatorship).
Guns don't just pick themselves up, walk out of the house, and start killing people.
A certain percentage of kids are the killers and we MUST look at why - not how.
 
Traveler said:
I disagree, StarSong. The recent Texas killer used a shotgun. They have been WIDELY available for well over a hundred years. Pistols much longer than that. If the major problem was too many guns, then we should have seen school shootings throughout our history. But, we don't.

In any event, what do you propose ? Banning all guns ? That, ma'am, is never, ever going to happen. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not in a hundred years. (unless we have a leftist dictatorship).
Guns don't just pick themselves up, walk out of the house, and start killing people.
A certain percentage of kids are the killers and we MUST look at why - not how.
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Yes, in this case the deranged shooter used weapons other than the typical AR-15 (or similar weapon).

I'm not suggesting that all guns be banned. Nevertheless, it is beyond time for Americans to have a serious conversation about dramatically reducing the 35,000 annual gun deaths in the US each year. I'm more than ready to have that conversation and to elect representatives who will start limiting private ownership of military grade weapons. It's also time to hold people responsible for the damage wreaked by the weapons they own.

Sending thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families are cold, empty comfort.

Volf.JPG
 
Interesting discussion about a tragic situation. I don't think there is any one answer, but you all have touched on a number of valid points. Trying to figure out what has changed to cause this epidemic, I think a lot of things have changed, and some bad things of the past have continued, creating a "perfect storm" leading to gun violence by kids.

We've always had stupid, uncaring, inept, overburdened, or cruel parents. This is not new.

We've always had some kids who were unsupervised, more so today.

We've always had violent games involving shooting. Toy guns were more prevalent in the past than they are now.

Violent video games are newer, but there have always been violent arcade games.

There is probably an element of copycat crimes in all this.

Probably the only way to prevent any more of these school shootings is to have one well-guarded entrance to each school, with the same kind of security checks used in many other public buldings. (Why is it easier for an armed person to walk into a school than to walk into a sports venue, a rock concert, a museum, a government building? Are the children considered less important?)
 
Sunny said:
Interesting discussion about a tragic situation. I don't think there is any one answer, but you all have touched on a number of valid points. Trying to figure out what has changed to cause this epidemic, I think a lot of things have changed, and some bad things of the past have continued, creating a "perfect storm" leading to gun violence by kids.

We've always had stupid, uncaring, inept, overburdened, or cruel parents. This is not new.

We've always had some kids who were unsupervised, more so today.

We've always had violent games involving shooting. Toy guns were more prevalent in the past than they are now.

Violent video games are newer, but there have always been violent arcade games.

There is probably an element of copycat crimes in all this.

Probably the only way to prevent any more of these school shootings is to have one well-guarded entrance to each school, with the same kind of security checks used in many other public buldings. (Why is it easier for an armed person to walk into a school than to walk into a sports venue, a rock concert, a museum, a government building? Are the children considered less important?)
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If we guard an entrance to a school with metal detectors, would-be shooters can simply wait in the parking lot until crowds form ten minutes before the bell or five minutes after dismissal. Or they'll hit classmates at a popular hang-out location after school, or during a football game. Or, or, or. If someone has the motive and the means, they can find the opportunity.

The question that persists for me, Sunny, is why the US statistically has so much more gun violence than fellow first world countries with otherwise similar cultural patterns, but that don't permit military grade types of weapons in private hands that we do, nor do they have the sheer volume of guns per capita. Or have I answered my own question?
 
Why is it that a kid can be capable of such acts but his parents say they never saw it coming? Now, we are not talking the kid went out and beat up a kid rather to go out and slaughter many and in some cases kill himself. It is hard to believe this is something that parents did not concern themselves for not sensing something off the norm with the kids behavior.
We should take the numbers on how many internet and or video killings the kids see every single day starting at very young ages including movies and TV. "Ultraviolence is the daily dose now. We have to see brains coming out, dismemberments, blood splattering everywhere, rapes, etc. Years back these things were implied not shown in detail. In WWII the decision was made to show the American human death toll on the beaches of Normandy. After the theaters showed the horrible scenes military recruiting plummeted. So we cannot dismiss the impact of what our kids are absorbing every day.
Fathers are now the dummies of the family instead of the head of the family and the term "single parent" is the new norm. Police used to carry only a 38 cl. six shooter now they cannot be distinguished for a fully armed combat military person. Letting our kids sit behind the computer for 8-12 hours a day is no different from not have them home at night for the same mount of time. We are simply witnessing the formula for this behavior proving itself to be true over and over.
Get used to this if you are not already for this is the new American youth.
 
fmdog44 said:
why is it that a kid can be capable of such acts but his parents say they never saw it coming? Now, we are not talking the kid went out and beat up a kid rather to go out and slaughter many and in some cases kill himself. It is hard to believe this is something that parents did not concern themselves for not sensing something off the norm with the kids behavior.
We should take the numbers on how many internet and or video killings the kids see every single day starting at very young ages including movies and tv. "ultraviolence is the daily dose now. We have to see brains coming out, dismemberments, blood splattering everywhere, rapes, etc. Years back these things were implied not shown in detail. In wwii the decision was made to show the american human death toll on the beaches of normandy. After the theaters showed the horrible scenes military recruiting plummeted. So we cannot dismiss the impact of what our kids are absorbing every day.
fathers are now the dummies of the family instead of the head of the family and the term "single parent" is the new norm. police used to carry only a 38 cl. Six shooter now they cannot be distinguished for a fully armed combat military person. Letting our kids sit behind the computer for 8-12 hours a day is no different from not have them home at night for the same mount of time. We are simply witnessing the formula for this behavior proving itself to be true over and over.
Get used to this if you are not already for this is the new american youth.
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bingo !
 
Traveler said:
bingo !
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Hold your cards. What about safe storage of weapons? The father is an NRA guy.

How did the kid get the guns? Whoever bought the guns should be charged with the responsibility of keeping them safe or he should be prosecuted.

The Second Amendment says nothing about safe storage of arms. The NRA can't use that as an excuse.
 
:eek:
Sunny said:
We've always had some kids who were unsupervised, more so today.

We've always had violent games involving shooting. Toy guns were more prevalent in the past than they are now.

Violent video games are newer, but there have always been violent arcade games.
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Sunny, sorry to disagree BUT,

1.) The numbers of unsupervised children has increased a thousand fold.

2.) We can not possibly compare the toy guns of the past with the violent games of today. The ULTRA- VIOLENT ULTRA-REALISTIC games of today are, in fact, altering our kids minds. To compare the toy cap guns of yesteryear or the silly arcade games of our youth, with the ultra realistic, ultra bloody games of today is like comparing Gary Grant kissing Vivian Leigh to XXX porn. We can say both involve sexuality, but XXX porn is dramatically different.

Wait. Now that I think about it, there were no arcade games in MY youth, just pinball machines.
 
Camper6 said:
Hold your cards. What about safe storage of weapons? The father is an NRA guy.

How did the kid get the guns? Whoever bought the guns should be charged with the responsibility of keeping them safe or he should be prosecuted.

The Second Amendment says nothing about safe storage of arms. The NRA can't use that as an excuse.
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These are good points. I would advocate for that. I was thinking the same thing this morning.
 
So apparently the kid is 17 yrs old and the guns belong to his father. I say charge the father with murder as well, or at least accessory to murder. If you have guns and you have kids then you have the obligation to keep the guns out the hands of your children, especially your mentally disturbed children—you're probably the reason they are messed up in the first place.
 

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