Time for a paradigm shift

d0ug

d0ug

Member
At one time all science agreed that the sun rotated around the earth and anyone that said no was crazy. Then a paradigm shift happened
At one time all science agreed that the world was flat anyone disagreed was crazy. Then a paradigm happen
Now they all kneel at the alter of medicine science and when they are proven wrong they are consider crazy.
Now the medical system can not cure heart burn they manage the symptoms with the blue pill.
They can not cure arthritis but give you a metallic part.
They can not cure diabetes but they can take your money for your whole life.
They can not cure obesity but they can staple your stomach.
They can do nothing for muscular dystrophy but give you drugs to control symptoms and wheel chairs.
All these ailments have been handled easily by alternative medicine.

USA has the most advanced medical science in the world and the sickest people in the world. US spend more money than the all other industrial countries put together.
How good was all this science if they can’t help anyone?
In the future when we have naturopath doctors and alternative healing given an equal footing with equal rights. There will be a paradigm shift.

We will look back and call this medical madness and say it was barbaric.
 

Natural cure for obesity, is to eat a diet that suits your body type, and not rubbish take aways, and exercise at least 30 minutes a day eg walking.

Sure as anything, if you take one pill, that will cause something else for you to have to take another pill for.
I have never seen a chemist /drugstore go out of business.

We will look back and call this medical madness and say it was barbaric. I do hope so D0ug
 

... and Di, you believe that our modern shamans with their magic boxes and their magic pills are any better? You don't think those are actually prolonging our lives, do you?

It's the easier lifestyles we live, the modern conveniences, that account for the lion's share of our new-found longevity. Tell me that the generation-by-generation life extension is due exclusively to modern medicine and I'll laugh.

Yes, the old diseases have been wiped out or controlled due to advances in medicine, and that's a good thing. But this paradigm of making you suffer and losing your dignity just to live another year or so? No, that's not good. I would rather live a year or two less and keep my dignity than to become a lab rat.

The pendulum has swung too far. Our modern medical shamans have taken control of our lives with their pills and their machines. The sheep go willingly, brainwashed by commercials and by those who know nothing. It's a self-perpetuating machine, fueled by our mistaken conceptions that we are entitled to live forever. We become Frankenstein monsters because we trust the wrong people.
 
There are many things that doctors can do for us that do save lives, and allow people to live longer. Advances in medicine, such as antibiotics, cleanliness in operations, and new methods of examinations to determine the cause of an illness or injury, have been invaluable to our lifespan.
However, many of the medical treatments today are designed to help people live with their illness, rather than to actually cure the disease.
Most doctors are not well trained in nutrition, and in any case, will usually prefer to prescribe medication, rather than a natural healing procedure, or nutritional food.

When doctors have done all they can to help us get well, and are only offering pain medication to alleviate suffering, and nothing to help us actually get well, then I believe that looking into alternative methods that have helped other people recover from the same type of ailment, is an intelligent thing to do. Our health is ultimately up to us to maintain, or to not maintain.

As far as people not living long enough to get old, in earlier times; that is true enough, but many people who did not live such dangerous lives, did live longer.
Take for example, the Hunza people of the high Himalayan mountains. They have been long known for their health and longevity , as well as their very basic diet and lifestyle.

http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/hunza-diet-health-weight-loss#axzz2urlo71C7
 
Diwundrin said:
The problem I have with with dismissing medical science in favour returning to 'natural remedies' is the difference in life expectancy rates. Back when humanity was devoid of the burden of doctors and pharmeceuticals they were old at 30 and usually buried at 40.
They didn't get old enough to die of what sees we oldies off these days. If they had bad hearts they dropped on a hunt and were written out of the gene pool.
Women died in childbirth and kept churning them out until one did kill them or they became anaemic or they just plain wore out, or got tossed out for a younger mate. They didn't last long enough to reach menopause so there weren't any natural remedies for that. Those who survived that long were burned as witches when they got 'possessed' by hot flushes and bad tempers. Men died when they got too slow to dodge a charging Muskox or else turned into Shamans dispensing bullsh*t to the gullible around the campfire for scraps.

To compare today's lifestyle to how people lived back in the 'natural remedy' days is ludicrously misguided and comparing apples to oranges. Get a grip and have a closer look at just what you are talking about.

We are mortal beings, we are living longer now that human beings ever had and we ain't doing that by chewing on Ginko leaves and putting moss and prayers on infections. Just sayin'.
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The longest living people live in the blue zones around the world and they have no doctors. Living to be 100 is normal.
 
Your best friend when you have cancer is your immune system. Radiation and chemotherapy destroys the immune system and causes cancer. The medical system have been given trillions of dollars to find a cure for cancer and failed. They did not give the alternative medical science one cent to find a cure. The only doctors that showed any sign of success in helping with cancer got chased out of the country, thrown in jail, or disgraced by the medical system. The PDR has all the drugs listed and if you remove the antibiotics all other drugs only manage symptoms and not cure.
 
there isn't a perfect world cure due to medicine because there isn't ENOUGH money in it, not because of the money being made in it. compared to the defense industry, automobiles, etc pharmaceuticals doesn't account for much. if you include the entire medical industry (services etc.) you are using statistics incorrectly. whether holistic, natural, folklore, etc. works is beside the point. the very fact that people are paying more attention, learning more and asking questions is a BIG plus. having one answer over a large population is unrealistic. one thing for one person may not be good for another----- antidotal remedies does not equal data
 
there will never be an across the board equality in medical treatment, as long as someone has more and can afford they will buy better. the health food industry has brought many things to the daily affordable level of regular people. when tryptophan was first investigated as a sleep aid, and serotonin precursor, it was outrageously expensive. its next metabolite usable product 5-HTP is cheap and easy to get today solely because someone thought they could make some money.
The PDR is simply a compilation of the manufacturers label inserts and has no value clinically, WebMD is even better than the PDR, most therapeutic stuff is taken from Facts and Comparisons . and clinical specialty books if books are used at in the initial patient work up.
in most cases of cancer the immune system IS the cause of death, not the cancer. all disease states are immunological, a certain group of these produce cells at a rate that doesn't allow normal metabolism, that group of disease is called cancer
 
My wife is just about to start chemotherapy for breast cancer. I wouldn't dream of her going anywhere else than the best oncology center. I also worked in research labs for 12 years, including 4 years at the National Cancer Institute's Mammary Gland Carcinogenesis Program.

Every scientist in every discipline dreams about being the one who can walk home with a Nobel prize. If there was a cure for cancer, it would be shouted from the rooftops. The thing about science is that it does not have, and should rightfully never claim to have, the ultimate truth about anything. What it claims is to have a theory about how something works and that theory holds until it can be falsified. Hence the reason that things like religion and other superstitions are not studied by science in any meaningful way, because many such claims are not falsifiable.

The other thing to realize is that cancer is not a single disease. Tumor cells reflect their tissue of origin across a spectrum of differentiating characteristics. Cells from one tissue will react differently than cells from another tissue. Poorly differentiated cells are, in general, more difficult to treat with anything because they have deviated so far from the tissue of origin that they have few recognizable characteristics of that tissue. Therefore, drugs etc. that might have been effective in killing for example a pigmented epithelial cell, become largely ineffective because the therapies are targeted against a cell of a particular tissue type and that cell no longer resembles any tissue type at all.

We've only been at this for about 100 years, only a few decades have the advances in molecular biology been available. It isn't going to happen at once. Our life spans are slowly increasing. A century ago, very few people died of cancer...they died of something else first.

None of us are doing to live forever and cancer, being intimately tied to our mechanisms of cellular growth and repair by stem cell populations throughout the body, becomes more likely as we live longer, because there is increasing chance that some progenitor cell is going to make a mistake and forget when to quit dividing.
 
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... and having gone through those therapies for months and weakened the body, and then and only then turning to holistics, is it any wonder that they get bad press?

Going into a modality of treatment as a second-best choice will always reduce the efficiency of that modality.
 
Interesting ...

Well, I suppose we go with what we know (and trust) the most. In my own experience I've known mainly horror stories from allopathic methods.
 
Yeah, I was just reading about Steve Jobs, how he delayed his treatment by several months while he tried various holistic remedies, to no avail. If anyone could afford top notch treatment, he could. He finally went for conventional treatment but it was pretty much too late. The story mentioned him talking with a peer, towards the end, who was also diagnosed with cancer and his advice to him was to get to the best available conventional medical specialist as soon as possible. Same story with Steve McQueen if I remember correctly. Similar story with my uncle also but he had already been told by oncologists that his case was not treatable. He was a boiler maker in the Navy and had asbestos induced mesothelioma in his lungs. That was a long time ago...maybe it would have been treatable these days.
 
If it weren't for medicine, I more than likely would have died over thirty years ago. At 19 I had abdominal cancer, and was given radiation. At 26 they told me it was back, and they gave me a hysterectomy, and chemotherapy. They then told me if I made it another 5 years to cross my fingers and.... I'm still here, so I too listen to the Dr.'s, althought I admit to a phobia of Dr.s.
 
Ina said:
If it weren't for medicine, I more than likely would have died over thirty years ago. At 19 I had abdominal cancer, and was given radiation. At 26 they told me it was back, and they gave me a hysterectomy, and chemotherapy. They then told me if I made it another 5 years to cross my fingers and.... I'm still here, so I too listen to the Dr.'s, althought I admit to a phobia of Dr.s.
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Wow, good for you! I just read your story to my wife. I'm trying to keep her in a fighting mood.
 
RC, Remind your wife that cancer medical treatments have come 1000's of miles since I had to fight that battle. I'll think of her, and send out all the blessing and prayers I can. But she must think into the future with a positive attitude.
 
I think that , like most things, this has to be a personal decision; and each person has to do what they feel will give them the best chance of survival. Cancer has become epidemic, and regardless of treatment, many people are dying from it; so there are good and bad stories from about any kind of treatment.
Regardless of what treatment a person decides to use, I think that you can always help your body by giving it healthy foods, and especially the ones that are known to be anti-cancer, like pinceapple,grapes, cabbage, and many others.
Eating those cancer-fighting foods might be our best protection from getting cancer, as well.

My son's fiancee died from the chemotherapy, not the cancer; it weakened her body too much. She refused to eat healthy foods, her doctor told her that eating ice cream was as good for her as the yogurt, or cottage cheese would be; so she existed on things she liked, like ice cream and potato chips. Even with healthy food, she might not have made it; but at least she would have had a better chance, in my opinion.
 
DDIL has just finished her Chemo and radiation treatment for bowel cancer and is now waiting to have an operation,but cannot have it until she has gained weight which she lost through the treatment, also she has now got Hypothyroidism caused by the chemo and it is hampering her being able to gain weight.
After seeing her suffer the way she is at the moment, I will not have chemo or radiation therapy if I get cancer,I will be trying holistic first there are many holistic therapies and diets out there that have helped many people.
I myself have survived childhood cancer through holistic and diet methods, and this was when there was no chemo or radiation treatments in Australia.
 
RCynic said:
Yeah, I was just reading about Steve Jobs, how he delayed his treatment by several months while he tried various holistic remedies, to no avail. If anyone could afford top notch treatment, he could. He finally went for conventional treatment but it was pretty much too late. The story mentioned him talking with a peer, towards the end, who was also diagnosed with cancer and his advice to him was to get to the best available conventional medical specialist as soon as possible. Same story with Steve McQueen if I remember correctly. Similar story with my uncle also but he had already been told by oncologists that his case was not treatable. He was a boiler maker in the Navy and had asbestos induced mesothelioma in his lungs. That was a long time ago...maybe it would have been treatable these days.
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The story of Steve McQueen is that he went for alternative treatment after orthodox failed and when he was feeling better they convinced him to have surgery which killed him, his wife wrote a letter of thanks to the alternative doctors for all they did and believed if he had not gone back to the orthodox doctors he would still be alive.
 
I know personally people who went the alternative route and are alive today and did not suffer during the treatment. Others who went the allopathic route and suffered and the cancer returned. These people were good friends of mine. I though the premise of medicine I shell do no harm but this dose not applies in cancer. There has been lots of cures and the people have been chased out of the country or devastated by the orthodox medicine. One name comes to mind is Dr. Raymond Rife who developed a treatment and proved it by curing patience sent to him by the AMA they made a banquet in his honor then tried they best to destroy him. That is only one of many.
 
d0ug said:
The story of Steve McQueen is that he went for alternative treatment after orthodox failed and when he was feeling better they convinced him to have surgery which killed him his wife wrote a letter of thanks to the alternative doctors for all they did and believed if he had not gone back to the orthodox doctors he would still be alive.
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Hmmm, I couldn't remember the story exactly so looked it up. Looks to me like we were both off on what actually happened.

"McQueen developed a persistent cough in 1978. He gave up cigarettes and underwent antibiotic treatments without improvement. Shortness of breath grew more pronounced and on December 22, 1979, after filming The Hunter, a biopsy revealed pleural mesothelioma,[SUP][63][/SUP] a cancer associated with asbestos exposure for which there is no known cure. The asbestos was thought to have been in the protective suits worn in his race car driving days, but in fact the auto racing suits McQueen wore were made of Nomex, a DuPont fire-resistant aramid fiber that contains no asbestos. By February 1980, there was evidence of widespread metastasis. While he tried to keep the condition a secret, the National Enquirer disclosed that he had "terminal cancer" on March 11, 1980. In July, McQueen traveled to Rosarito Beach, Mexico for unconventional treatment after US doctors told him they could do nothing to prolong his life.[SUP][64][/SUP]Controversy arose over McQueen's Mexican trip, because McQueen sought a non-traditional cancer treatment called the Gerson Therapy that used coffee enemas, frequent washing with shampoos, daily injections of fluid containing live cells from cows and sheep,massage and laetrile, a supposedly "natural" anti-cancer drug available in Mexico, but not approved by the US Food and Drug Administration. McQueen paid for these unconventional medical treatments by himself in cash payments which was said to have cost an upwards of $40,000 per month during his three-month stay in Mexico. McQueen was treated by William Donald Kelley, whose only medical license had been (until revoked in 1976) for orthodontics.[SUP][65][/SUP] Kelley's methods created a sensation in the traditional and tabloid press when it was known that McQueen was a patient.[SUP][66][/SUP][SUP][67][/SUP] McQueen returned to the US in early October. Despite metastasis of the cancer through McQueen's body, Kelley publicly announced that McQueen would be completely cured and return to normal life. McQueen's condition soon worsened and "huge" tumors developed in his abdomen.[SUP][65][/SUP] In late October 1980, McQueen flew to Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, Mexico to have an abdominal tumor on his liver (weighing around five pounds) removed, despite warnings from his US doctors that the tumor was inoperable and his heart could not withstand the surgery.[SUP][65][/SUP][SUP][68][/SUP] McQueen checked into a Juarez clinic under the assumed name of "Sam Shepard" where the doctors and staff at the small, low-income clinic were unaware of his actual identity. On November 7, 1980, Steve McQueen died at the age of 50 at the Juárez clinic following the surgical operation to remove or reduce several metastatic tumors in his neck and abdomen.[SUP][68][/SUP] He had in fact died of cardiac arrest at 3:45 am in his hospital bed more than 12 hours after the surgery to remove the tumors. An article in the El Paso Times noted that before his death he awoke in his hospital bed and asked the nurse for some ice water and then died."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McQueen
 
d0ug said:
I know personally people who went the alternative route and are alive today and did not suffer during the treatment. Others who went the allopathic route and suffered and the cancer returned. These people were good friends of mine. I though the premise of medicine I shell do no harm but this dose not applies in cancer. There has been lots of cures and the people have been chased out of the country or devastated by the orthodox medicine. One name comes to mind is Dr. Raymond Rife who developed a treatment and proved it by curing patience sent to him by the AMA they made a banquet in his honor then tried they best to destroy him. That is only one of many
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The world is full of anecdotes, and if something is not repeatably verified by multiple other labs, then it is just that, anecdotal. Biology is always messy like that. It's not like claims for perpetual motion machines which can be tested and their operation confirmed or not. Biology is almost never 100% anything, because it's basis is in equilibrium reactions, feedback mechanisms, so the occasional wild result is not unusual. But if it is not reproducible, if it shows no statistical benefit beyond chance, then it gets swept under the rug with the other litter. I had never heard of Rife but in looking him up in Wikipedia, which is not a biased medical source, he sounds like a quack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Royal_Rife&oldid=589779158

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Royal Raymond Rife (May 16, 1888 – August 5, 1971) was an American inventor and early exponent of high-magnification time-lapse cine-micrography.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] In the 1930s, he claimed that by using a specially designed optical microscope, he could observe microbes which were too small to visualize with previously existing technology.[SUP][3][/SUP] Rife also reported that a 'beam ray' device of his invention could weaken or destroy the pathogens by energetically exciting destructive resonances in their constituent chemicals.[SUP][4]
[/SUP]
Rife's claims could not be independently replicated,[SUP][5][/SUP] and were ultimately discredited by the medical profession in the 1950s. Rife blamed the scientific rejection of his claims on aconspiracy involving the American Medical Association (AMA), the Department of Public Health, and other elements of "organized medicine", which had "brainwashed" potential supporters of his devices.[SUP][6]
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Interest in Rife's claims was revived in some alternative medical circles by the 1987 book The Cancer Cure That Worked, which claimed that Rife had succeeded in curing cancer, but that his work was suppressed by a powerful conspiracy headed by the AMA.[SUP][5][/SUP] After this book's publication, a variety of devices bearing Rife's name were marketed as cures for diverse diseases such as cancer and AIDS. An analysis by Electronics Australia found that a typical 'Rife device' consisted of a nine-volt battery, wiring, a switch, a timer and two short lengths of copper tubing, which delivered an "almost undetectable" current unlikely to penetrate the skin.[SUP][7][/SUP] Several marketers of other 'Rife devices' have been convicted for health fraud, and in some cases cancer patients who used these devices as a replacement for medical therapy have died.[SUP][8][/SUP] Rife devices are currently classified as a subset of radionics devices, which are generally viewed as pseudomedicine by mainstream experts.
 
Well, they laughed at Tesla as well ...

The problem I have with Western medicine is that they are powerful enough to demand "proof" of a treatment, and the parameters that have to be met just do NOT fit in with the holistic modalities. You're comparing apples with oranges.

It's like science and religion - you cannot use one to disprove the other, yet every day people are turning away (or BEING turned away) from potentially life-saving methods because they don't meet the "Seal of Approval" of the juggernaut known as Corporate Medicine.
 
SifuPhil said:
Well, they laughed at Tesla as well ...

The problem I have with Western medicine is that they are powerful enough to demand "proof" of a treatment, and the parameters that have to be met just do NOT fit in with the holistic modalities. You're comparing apples with oranges.

It's like science and religion - you cannot use one to disprove the other, yet every day people are turning away (or BEING turned away) from potentially life-saving methods because they don't meet the "Seal of Approval" of the juggernaut known as Corporate Medicine.
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Yeah, that's where we're different. I do not believe in any religions or other superstitions. I believe in what can be clearly proven to me by what basically boils down to the scientific method. I'm a scientist at heart and if it is not repeatable, testable and falsifiable, then my answer is that I don't believe. It's worked for me fine the last 40+ years so that's where I am.
 
Facts are stubborn things.
From the mouths of the medical system.
Chemotherapy was proven to be 97% ineffective in the treatment of adult onset cancers by a study published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology.
Doctors get a fee for recommending chemo. [kick back]

On the other side there is sea cucumber. The drug companies don't make it so doctors can't give it to you.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042506_sea_cucumber_breast_cancer_cells_lung_tumors.html#

When people have a strong erg to live they will survive despite what they do to them
 

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