Gays

nwlady said:
Well I think there seems to be an awful lot of people making a very big deal out of it, and the biggest deal seems to be trying to prove it is as normal as heterosexuality. What I've never got about the whole thing is why things that should be kept private in a bedroom, are now front-page news, often. I don't care who someone choses to sleep with, but I don't want to hear about it. Guess I'm old-fashioned, but there are "unmentionables" as Phil calls underwear.
Click to expand...

A big part of why it's such a big deal are the attacks gays have suffered and the legal restrictions concerning partnership and adoption rights and entitlements.
 

Gael said:
A big part of why it's such a big deal are the attacks gays have suffered and the legal restrictions concerning partnership and adoption rights and entitlements.
Click to expand...

Hi Gael, I really shouldn't have gotten into this, but it was my big idea. Now I have to say something else, which I wasn't going to, but if we look around, whenever there is a conflict in this world, there are usually two-sides. One group against another, one country against another etc. Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well. It is sad that the whole world can't get along, but it has not happened and I doubt it will. If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else. And just like everyone else, there will be suffering because there will be someone that opposes the idea. I suppose there are some people on this Earth that don't suffer, I never met anyone like that.
 

nwlady said:
Now I have to say something else, which I wasn't going to, but if we look around, whenever there is a conflict in this world, there are usually two-sides. One group against another, one country against another etc. Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well. It is sad that the whole world can't get along, but it has not happened and I doubt it will. If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else. And just like everyone else, there will be suffering because there will be someone that opposes the idea. I suppose there are some people on this Earth that don't suffer, I never met anyone like that.
Click to expand...

Some good points there Nwlady. A lot of people are completely against those who don't follow their beliefs or lifestyles, so there is a lot of unrest among numerous groups. The main stream media encourages the conflict and hate, by the way they report the news, in such a biased way. When they were reporting on the murder of Matthew Shepherd, they pushed the idea that it was such a "hate" crime against homosexuals, and everyone was in an uproar. Then I heard later on, that it was more of a drug deal gone bad, and the person involved in his murder was homosexual/bisexual himself.

As much as I'd love to see everyone live peacefully with each other, that has an even slimmer chance of happening than it ever did. Seems like there's forces behind the scenes, just pitting everyone against each other, whether political views, race, religion or sexual preference.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Some good points there Nwlady. A lot of people are completely against those who don't follow their beliefs or lifestyles, so there is a lot of unrest among numerous groups. The main stream media encourages the conflict and hate, by the way they report the news, in such a biased way. When they were reporting on the murder of Matthew Shepherd, they pushed the idea that it was such a "hate" crime against homosexuals, and everyone was in an uproar. Then I heard later on, that it was more of a drug deal gone bad, and the person involved in his murder was homosexual/bisexual himself.

As much as I'd love to see everyone live peacefully with each other, that has an even slimmer chance of happening than it ever did. Seems like there's forces behind the scenes, just pitting everyone against each other, whether political views, race, religion or sexual preference.
Click to expand...

That's another reason I rarely watch the news, it is biased. And those movies aren't so far-fetched that show how the public isn't told this or that, I know that's gotta be true. For me personally, it gets frightening not knowing who I can believe anymore. Is there anyone?
 
nwlady said:
Hi Gael, I really shouldn't have gotten into this, but it was my big idea. Now I have to say something else, which I wasn't going to, but if we look around, whenever there is a conflict in this world, there are usually two-sides. One group against another, one country against another etc. Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well. It is sad that the whole world can't get along, but it has not happened and I doubt it will. If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else. And just like everyone else, there will be suffering because there will be someone that opposes the idea. I suppose there are some people on this Earth that don't suffer, I never met anyone like that.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean about...Those attacks gays have suffered, have been suffered by the other side as well.

Don't know of many instances of gays attacking straights physically.

If gay people or straight people want things to happen, they have to make it happen in the best way they can, just like everyone else.

I'd say that's what gay rights efforts have been about.
 
Well, I was talking about the whole conflict, not any single incidents of violence. I don't know about any to honest, because I don't keep up on the news because I don't know what to believe. I'm saying that there are to sides to make a conflict, two sets of beliefs of what is right and what is wrong. Some are on the fence about things. Yes, gays are trying to make things the way the want, I don't know all their tactics. I guess parades etc. Congressmen for gay-rights all that. passing laws, or trying. But there are people with as much right on the other "team". There's always some that don't fight fair. I think the biggest issue for folks is the moral issue. And then that depends on a persons definition of what is moral.
 
nwlady said:
Well, I was talking about the whole conflict, not any single incidents of violence. I don't know about any to honest, because I don't keep up on the news because I don't know what to believe. I'm saying that there are to sides to make a conflict, two sets of beliefs of what is right and what is wrong. Some are on the fence about things. Yes, gays are trying to make things the way the want, I don't know all their tactics. I guess parades etc. Congressmen for gay-rights all that. passing laws, or trying. But there are people with as much right on the other "team". There's always some that don't fight fair. I think the biggest issue for folks is the moral issue. And then that depends on a persons definition of what is moral.
Click to expand...

The main issue for me is I don't want to see any group, gays, minorities, females, etc., etc. treated in a discriminatory manner or having their human rights interferred with.
 
Gael said:
The main issue for me is I don't want to see any group, gays, minorities, females, etc., etc. treated in a discriminatory manner or having their human rights interferred with.
Click to expand...

yes, I agree gael. I always stand up for the underdog, whoever it is at any given moment. Just like in a football game, if someone is highly favored, and the other team is bad-mouthed, I root for the underdog;) I wish there were not any underdogs. Such is life though:(
 
SifuPhil said:
Ever hear of the Stonewall Inn riots of 1969?

How about some of the "episodes" in the NYC subway system?


But of course most of their warfare is psychological, not physical ...
Click to expand...

Wonder why they fought back??

From wiki:
The Stonewall riots were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations by members of the gay community[SUP][note 1][/SUP] against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn, in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of New York City. They are widely considered to constitute the single most important event leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for gay and lesbian rights in the United States.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]
Gay Americans in the 1950s and 1960s faced a legal system more anti-homosexual than those of some Warsaw Pact countries.[SUP][note 2][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] Early homophile groups in the U.S. sought to prove that gay people could be assimilated into society, and they favored non-confrontational education for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. The last years of the 1960s, however, were very contentious, as many social movements were active, including the African American Civil Rights Movement, the Counterculture of the 1960s, and antiwar demonstrations. These influences, along with the liberal environment of Greenwich Village, served as catalysts for the Stonewall riots.
Very few establishments welcomed openly gay people in the 1950s and 1960s. Those that did were often bars, although bar owners and managers were rarely gay. The Stonewall Inn, at the time, was owned by the Mafia.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] It catered to an assortment of patrons, but it was known to be popular with the poorest and most marginalized people in the gay community: drag queens, representatives of a newly self-aware transgendercommunity, effeminate young men, male prostitutes, and homeless youth. Police raids on gay bars were routine in the 1960s, but officers quickly lost control of the situation at the Stonewall Inn, and attracted a crowd that was incited to riot. Tensions betweenNew York City police and gay residents of Greenwich Village erupted into more protests the next evening, and again several nights later. Within weeks, Village residents quickly organized into activist groups to concentrate efforts on establishing places for gays and lesbians to be open about their sexual orientation without fear of being arrested.
After the Stonewall riots, gays and lesbians in New York City faced gender, race, class, and generational obstacles to becoming a cohesive community. Within six months, two gay activist organizations were formed in New York, concentrating on confrontational tactics, and three newspapers were established to promote rights for gays and lesbians. Within a few years, gay rights organizations were founded across the U.S. and the world. On June 28, 1970, the first Gay Pride marches took place in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York commemorating the anniversary of the riots. Similar marches were organized in other cities. Today, Gay Pride events are held annually throughout the world toward the end of June to mark the Stonewall riots.
 
nwlady said:
yes, I agree gael. I always stand up for the underdog, whoever it is at any given moment. Just like in a football game, if someone is highly favored, and the other team is bad-mouthed, I root for the underdog;) I wish there were not any underdogs. Such is life though:(
Click to expand...

I know. And here I am in a land where the underdog still hasn't had their day.
 
Gael said:
Wonder why they fought back??

From wiki:
The Stonewall riots were a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations by members of the gay community[SUP][note 1][/SUP] against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn, in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of New York City. They are widely considered to constitute the single most important event leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for gay and lesbian rights in the United States.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]
Gay Americans in the 1950s and 1960s faced a legal system more anti-homosexual than those of some Warsaw Pact countries.[SUP][note 2][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] Early homophile groups in the U.S. sought to prove that gay people could be assimilated into society, and they favored non-confrontational education for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. The last years of the 1960s, however, were very contentious, as many social movements were active, including the African American Civil Rights Movement, the Counterculture of the 1960s, and antiwar demonstrations. These influences, along with the liberal environment of Greenwich Village, served as catalysts for the Stonewall riots.
Very few establishments welcomed openly gay people in the 1950s and 1960s. Those that did were often bars, although bar owners and managers were rarely gay. The Stonewall Inn, at the time, was owned by the Mafia.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] It catered to an assortment of patrons, but it was known to be popular with the poorest and most marginalized people in the gay community: drag queens, representatives of a newly self-aware transgendercommunity, effeminate young men, male prostitutes, and homeless youth. Police raids on gay bars were routine in the 1960s, but officers quickly lost control of the situation at the Stonewall Inn, and attracted a crowd that was incited to riot. Tensions betweenNew York City police and gay residents of Greenwich Village erupted into more protests the next evening, and again several nights later. Within weeks, Village residents quickly organized into activist groups to concentrate efforts on establishing places for gays and lesbians to be open about their sexual orientation without fear of being arrested.
After the Stonewall riots, gays and lesbians in New York City faced gender, race, class, and generational obstacles to becoming a cohesive community. Within six months, two gay activist organizations were formed in New York, concentrating on confrontational tactics, and three newspapers were established to promote rights for gays and lesbians. Within a few years, gay rights organizations were founded across the U.S. and the world. On June 28, 1970, the first Gay Pride marches took place in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York commemorating the anniversary of the riots. Similar marches were organized in other cities. Today, Gay Pride events are held annually throughout the world toward the end of June to mark the Stonewall riots.
Click to expand...

See, there's an example of my own perceptions of gays, I don't think of them as being violent at all, but this says different, and like that old show "Believe it or Not". Anyway, thanks for the examples Phil, again the two sides to the stories. It's a mess.
 
Gael said:
Wonder why they fought back??

Click to expand...

No, I do not.

Mainly because I know that at heart they're still descended from the same low form of life that every other human being is, no matter their sexual orientation.

That doesn't justify their actions. Gandhi never had to resort to violence ...
 
nwlady said:
See, there's an example of my own perceptions of gays, I don't think of them as being violent at all, but this says different, and like that old show "Believe it or Not". Anyway, thanks for the examples Phil, again the two sides to the stories. It's a mess.
Click to expand...

But do you see why they fought back? And like any minority that's been discriminated, it sometimes does require fighting back.
 
Gael said:
But do you see why they fought back? And like any minority that's been discriminated, it sometimes does require fighting back.
Click to expand...

I agree at times it does require fighting back, against the machine, but I don't know, wasn't there.
 
Gael said:
My reply was to post the background of what led up to them fighting for their rights. And knock off the sarcasm, it makes you look ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I think it makes me look rather cute! :bowknot:

You're still maintaining that a violation of some perceived "right" is sufficient cause to engage in a physical confrontation.

If I carried that maxim to the extreme I could kick an old lady into the street because her dog pooped on my lawn.

A fight, especially a large-scale riot spread over several days, is not fighting for a cause - it's engaging in civil disorder and anarchy. If you want to be civilized and respected about getting your rights fight with lawyers and judges, not sticks and bricks. Living in Ireland you should know all about this - I shouldn't have to preach to you.

Fighting is a failure to negotiate by peaceful means - it's a failure to be a civil human being. By holding that riot those particular people permanently lost my good-will and indulgences.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top