Car's AC shot

[debodun]

I took my car to one of those "quick lube" places a few years ago because the front brakes were getting worn down. They put new pads and rotors on it. Although they work, they never felt the same and made noise when applying the brake pedal. I took it to Honda and they refused to do further repairs when they saw that there was something other than "genuine Honda parts" installed. In other words "If you choose to have someone other than a Honda garage do repairs and it isn't right, don't come crying to us."

 

[JimW]

I took my car to one of those "quick lube" places a few years ago because the front brakes were getting worn down. They put new pads and rotors on it. Although they work, they never felt the same and made noise when applying the brake pedal. I took it to Honda and they refused to do further repairs when they saw that there was something other than "genuine Honda parts" installed. In other words "If you choose to have someone other than a Honda garage do repairs and it isn't right, don't come crying to us."

Not sure why you would get anything other than an oil change done at a quick lube place?

I'm sure the Honda dealer would have been more than happy to start from scratch and do the brake job over again using Honda parts if you were willing to pay for it.

 

[fmdog44]

I took my car to one of those "quick lube" places a few years ago because the front brakes were getting worn down. They put new pads and rotors on it. Although they work, they never felt the same and made noise when applying the brake pedal. I took it to Honda and they refused to do further repairs when they saw that there was something other than "genuine Honda parts" installed. In other words "If you choose to have someone other than a Honda garage do repairs and it isn't right, don't come crying to us."

Quick lube places are the Waffle Houses of auto service. Avoid Avoid Avoid

 

[fmdog44]

Having been in the mechanics trade and having worked for a couple dealerships, I would only bring my car to a dealership for service under two conditions. One is if the repair falls under warranty or a service contract and you won't be paying for it. Two is if the problem is computer related because the dealership will have all of the up to date equipment to diagnose and fix the computer problem. A lot of garage mechanics can't afford the equipment required to diagnose computer problems and most don't have the proper training. Other than that there are always qualified mechanics that will do the required repairs at a much cheaper price than the dealer will. Dealerships charge through the nose for cash repairs and for the most part are not worth the extra expense. Service records have little to no effect at a dealership for a trade in. Their main objective is getting you to buy a new car, not nickle and diming you on your trade in because you didn't get regular oil changes and you most definitely will not get back in trade the extra money you paid the dealership to do your regular maintenance.

First, get a written estimate and compare. Use a dealership with video access so you can watch them work. You are wrong on your "Service records have little to no effect at a dealership for a trade in". They definitely matter when you are dealing for another auto purchase. The difference is between dealerships. If you can't find an honest one then avoid
but know service is their bread and butter, not sales. I have done business with a Dodge, Ford and Nissan dealership in the past 10 years coming out shining like a new penny simply because I call the shots not them. The deal is sealed as soon as I walk in the door as they soon learn.

 

[Butterfly]

I take my cars to a dealership only as a last resort -- in my experience they will rob you blind. I have a good, honest mechanic that I've used for a long time. He's the one who first told me I should just go get another car rather than go the expense of fooling around with the transmission in my 13 year old car. He said he happily take my money for transmission work but pretty soon it would probably be something else and he would happily take more of my money, but he strongly recommended I just throw in the towel on that old car. So I did.

 

[hollydolly]

I was only considering getting the AC repaired because we've had an exceptionally hot and humid summer here in the northeast U.S. Keeping the windows open works okay if it's not raining (which it's done here every day since the beginning of the month). When I close the windows, then the windshield fogs. Then only solution to that is turning on the heater, and who wants to do that when it's already 90°F?

I know it won't help to cool you...but with regard to the fogging.. try hanging a small dehumidifier from your rear view mirror and another at the rear ... Keep the front one hanging there when you're not using the car, ( especially when it's raining) and remove it when you start the engine, then open your windows if it's dry ..the one hanging from the rear door can stay there permanently if necessary. I had to do this when my AC broke down...it works brilliantly...

 

[JimW]

First, get a written estimate and compare. Use a dealership with video access so you can watch them work. You are wrong on your "Service records have little to no effect at a dealership for a trade in". They definitely matter when you are dealing for another auto purchase. The difference is between dealerships. If you can't find an honest one then avoid
but know service is their bread and butter, not sales. I have done business with a Dodge, Ford and Nissan dealership in the past 10 years coming out shining like a new penny simply because I call the shots not them. The deal is sealed as soon as I walk in the door as they soon learn.

You sound like a man who demands the best and thinks he is getting it. I'm glad your system works for you.

 

[JimW]

I take my cars to a dealership only as a last resort -- in my experience they will rob you blind. I have a good, honest mechanic that I've used for a long time. He's the one who first told me I should just go get another car rather than go the expense of fooling around with the transmission in my 13 year old car. He said he happily take my money for transmission work but pretty soon it would probably be something else and he would happily take more of my money, but he strongly recommended I just throw in the towel on that old car. So I did.

Finding an honest and dependable local mechanic isn't easy, but they're worth their weight in gold. That is the way to go for the majority of your car repairs, it gives you peace of mind and your bank account will thank you.

 

[Manatee]

Your description fits the Compressor rather than the condenser which has no moving parts. Compressors are not cheap. Only you can decide if it is worth the expense.

 

[debodun]

My bill was enough without actually having the AC repaired. They charged me $79.95 for a "diagnostic service" on the AC. Then, as long as I was there, had the tranny fluid changed ($61.25 labor, $41.11 for fluid) and the rear brake drums and shoes "dusted off" ($115). I always ask for a "senior discount" for which they knocked off $40. Of course the 7% tax ($18.01) Bottom line for the Honda service - $275.32.

 

[squatting dog]

My bill was enough without actually having the AC repaired. They charged me $79.95 for a "diagnostic service" on the AC. Then, as long as I was there, had the tranny fluid changed ($61.25 labor, $41.11 for fluid) and the rear brake drums and shoes "dusted off" ($115). I always ask for a "senior discount" for which they knocked off $40. Of course the 7% tax ($18.01) Bottom line for the Honda service - $275.32.

$115 for rear brake drums and shoes "dusted off" Geez... let's see with the car already on a lift for tranny fluid change, takes about 45 seconds each to remove rear wheels, another 30 seconds each to pull rear shoes and then some air to blow away the dust. Yeah, that sounds like $115.

 

[Sunny]

To answer your original question, I would not put that kind of money into such an old car.

A year ago, I gave my 18-year-old car to my grandson, who was elated to get it. It's still running fine, and he's taken it all over the country. I got a brand new Suburu, and am amazed at the improvement in cars. Big expense, but IMO worth it, just for the safety features alone.

 

[Don M.]

My bill was enough without actually having the AC repaired. They charged me $79.95 for a "diagnostic service" on the AC. Then, as long as I was there, had the tranny fluid changed ($61.25 labor, $41.11 for fluid) and the rear brake drums and shoes "dusted off" ($115). I always ask for a "senior discount" for which they knocked off $40. Of course the 7% tax ($18.01) Bottom line for the Honda service - $275.32.

Now you know how your dealer makes its profits...$115 to clean the rear drums...they got to you for $100. When the car is already on the rack, it takes about 2 minutes per wheel to clean the drums. Did they actually DO anything for the $79.95 you paid for AC "diagnostic service"? If your compressor isn't making a bunch of awful rattling noises, and the clutch is actually engaging to turn the compressor, you can buy a "recharge kit" for about $25 and refill the AC fluid yourself in about 5 minutes. If that doesn't do the trick, you are probably going to have to fork over $750-$1000 to replace the compressor/clutch.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/IDQ-Arctic-Freeze-134a-Ultra-Synthetic-Refrigerant-22-oz-Can/16888790

 

[C'est Moi]

I was only considering getting the AC repaired because we've had an exceptionally hot and humid summer here in the northeast U.S. Keeping the windows open works okay if it's not raining (which it's done here every day since the beginning of the month). When I close the windows, then the windshield fogs. Then only solution to that is turning on the heater, and who wants to do that when it's already 90°F?

Does the blower still work? Turn on the defrost to clear the windshield or crack a window.

 

[JimW]

My bill was enough without actually having the AC repaired. They charged me $79.95 for a "diagnostic service" on the AC. Then, as long as I was there, had the tranny fluid changed ($61.25 labor, $41.11 for fluid) and the rear brake drums and shoes "dusted off" ($115). I always ask for a "senior discount" for which they knocked off $40. Of course the 7% tax ($18.01) Bottom line for the Honda service - $275.32.

Tranny fluid change with or without a new filter? I'm guessing based on that price for parts/fluid probably no new filter? If they didn't change the tranny filter when they replaced the fluid, then it was a waste of money to put new fluid in. The brake shoes "dusted off", that's a total ripoff.

This is why it pays to find a reputable and trustworthy mechanic outside of a dealership.

 

[Knight]

For fun I looked up a 2002 honda civic on the online Kelly Blue Book web site. Picked the middle line with standard features & used 68,000 miles. The value worked out to be an average of $1800.00


Is it worth it to spend $800.00 more on top of the money already taken to check the A/C and "dust off" the brakes? BTW. A complete brake parts replacement of OEM front rotors & pads, rear drums & relined brake shoes, retension springs & cylinders can be bought for $101.95. The labor to completely replace all those parts is something that could be negioated with a recommended non dealrship mechanic.


I think by you bringing your problems here it could very well help others not familiar with car repairs and insight into how to look for their best option.

Maybe knowing Kelly Blue book has a useful site that can help with decision making.


1. www.kbb.com

look for the official kbb site




By explaining for example something like this.


I have a 2002 Honda Model xxx with however many miles are on it. The A/C stopped working, the transmission fluid is black and hasn't been changed since? I've checked the online Kelly Blue Book for value. Any opinions on spending more to keep it or trade it in?


Others that have had success with low mileage used or like myself buying new with 10 year warranty could give you insight into what the technology advances can do for you.

 

[Don M.]

I think by you bringing your problems here it could very well help others not familiar with car repairs and insight into how to look for their best option.

I've worked on my own cars since I started driving, and I am constantly amazed at how so many people get ripped off on car repairs....due to their lack of knowing how to fix things...or at least being able to diagnose the real problem. Auto shops, and especially dealers, constantly overcharge, or make needless repairs because the vast majority of people don't know much about vehicles, or can't make their own repairs. With most of the newer cars...where everything is "computer controlled", this issue is becoming worse with every new model. I dread the day when I am no longer physically able to work on my own vehicles, and have to "trust" some shop to give me good value for the money.

 

[oldman]

The problem with going to a dealer and most independent garages is that they charge for labor by using the a Flat Rate Labor Manual or something similar to that. The way it works is like this. Hypothetically, let's say that I have a 2015 GMC Savana Van and I need to have the water pump replaced. The mechanic may take 3 hours to get the job done, but the by using the flat rate labor manual for that particular vehicle, it may state that the job should pay 5.0 hours. So, at a dealership, the mechanic will be paid the 5.0 hours of labor and it (the charges) will be passed onto you.

So, he spent 3.0 hours on my car and was paid for 5.0 hours. Now, he's already given another job and is already 2.0 hours ahead. So, by the end of the 8 hour day, he may have been paid for 12 hours of labor, more or less. To switch out an A/C compressor may take a qualified mechanic 6-8 hours, but it is likely that the flat rate labor manual will pay between 8-12 hours. Most dealerships in my area are charging somewhere around $110.00-$140.00 per labor hour. The average independent garage owner is charging in the neighborhood of $60.00/75.00 per hour. BIG difference.

Here's a quick read on flat rate vs. hourly rate. There is more to learn about it, depending on if you want to peruse the internet. https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/hourly-vs-flat-rate-for-auto-techs

Luckily, I have always been mechanically inclined and do all my own work, except if any exhaust problems pop up. I just don't like working on exhaust systems. The good thing is that a lot of vehicles today have stainless exhaust systems or are coated to prevent corrosion.

 

[fmdog44]

One more little thing here.

I quit twisting wrenches long ago (about the time when electronic ignition did away with points, condensers)

And learned this, thru trial and error;

A lot of folks have their favorite mechanic
Some are really good…really good

However

The dealership, say you drive a chevy, and it’s a chevy dealership, can fix your chevy…. blindfolded.
No mystery.
Same with parts.

But, like good, and not so good independent mechanics, there’s good dealerships, and ones that will fix yer budget for ya

One thing. Stop trying to twist wrenches. Just pull or push them.

 

[JimW]

The problem with going to a dealer and most independent garages is that they charge for labor by using the a Flat Rate Labor Manual or something similar to that. The way it works is like this. Hypothetically, let's say that I have a 2015 GMC Savana Van and I need to have the water pump replaced. The mechanic may take 3 hours to get the job done, but the by using the flat rate labor manual for that particular vehicle, it may state that the job should pay 5.0 hours. So, at a dealership, the mechanic will be paid the 5.0 hours of labor and it (the charges) will be passed onto you.

So, he spent 3.0 hours on my car and was paid for 5.0 hours. Now, he's already given another job and is already 2.0 hours ahead. So, by the end of the 8 hour day, he may have been paid for 12 hours of labor, more or less. To switch out an A/C compressor may take a qualified mechanic 6-8 hours, but it is likely that the flat rate labor manual will pay between 8-12 hours. Most dealerships in my area are charging somewhere around $110.00-$140.00 per labor hour. The average independent garage owner is charging in the neighborhood of $60.00/75.00 per hour. BIG difference.

Here's a quick read on flat rate vs. hourly rate. There is more to learn about it, depending on if you want to peruse the internet. https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/hourly-vs-flat-rate-for-auto-techs

Luckily, I have always been mechanically inclined and do all my own work, except if any exhaust problems pop up. I just don't like working on exhaust systems. The good thing is that a lot of vehicles today have stainless exhaust systems or are coated to prevent corrosion.

This is the main reason why I said never go to a dealership for a cash repair unless absolutely necessary. As Oldman mentioned above, all cash repairs at dealerships are charged by the flat rate labor manual which can be very generous with the amount of time it gives a mechanic to perform repairs and dealership labor rates are usually much higher than any local mechanic will charge. When I worked for dealerships back in the day, there were some days where I had 12 to 15 hours of labor owed to me for an 8 hour day. I could have 3 different jobs running on the clock at the same time and get paid for all 3 while only working on one. I wasn't ripping anyone off by doing this, (they were going to pay the same labor rate no matter what I did) I was simply working within the format that was set up for mechanics to use. These double digit labor hour days were usually the exception to the rule and if you had more than one or two of them a week, you were pretty lucky. This is the good side of being a dealership mechanic, and where most guys made their money. There were some weeks where I could accumulate 50 labor hours or more, these were very good weeks.

There is also a not so good side of being a dealership mechanic and that's the warranty work, which is about 75% of all dealership repairs. Just like the cash jobs are billed using the flat rate labor manual, warranty work is billed using the auto manufacturers warranty labor manual and this manual is no where near as time friendly to the mechanic as the flat rate manual. The auto maker, whether it be Ford, Chevy or Chrysler etc, pay the mechanics for the warranty repairs they perform on your vehicle and of course they want to pay as little as possible. The allotted time given to the mechanic to perform repairs in the warranty manual is much less than in the cash manual. A good mechanic can eventually make the times given in the warranty repair manual after performing the same repair a few times, but until he reaches that point he will lose money on each repair performed. It takes practice and repetition to get to this point, a good mechanic will figure out different ways to make the repair go faster every time he does one. Most average and below average mechanics never get to the point where they can complete the repair in the allotted time and this means they lose money. If the warranty manual allows for 3 hours for a mechanic to finish a repair and it takes him 5 hours, he's only getting paid for 3. No one wants to work 40 hours and only get paid for 35, but it does happen from time to time at dealerships when you run into a tough warranty repair and fail to make the allotted time. And this makes those 50 hour weeks all that more important.

It pays for a mechanic to be very friendly with the service manager(s) at the dealership because they are the ones who hand out the work orders, both cash and warranty.

Warranty repairs and computer problems should be the only thing you take your car to the dealership for, unless they are running some type of special which might be worth the money. But remember these "specials" are simply a means to get you in the door so they can up sell to other repairs. Sometimes it can be hard to say no to a pressure up sell, but if you don't want to get ripped off that two letter word is your best friend.

 

[oldman]

JimW...Like you, I worked for GM during my college days. My uncle owned the largest Buick dealership in Cleveland when I was going to college in Kent. He allowed me to stay with him and the family, so I could go to Kent at resident rate and he gave me a job in the evenings and weekends working on cars. I have accumulated probably at today's prices over $20,000.00 in tools, including some electronic instruments that are seldom used today like a dwell/tach and a timing light. All my tools are Snap On and Macke, which as you know are the Cadillac of the tool industry for auto mechanics. I almost was talked into getting my master's mechanics license, but stayed in school and got my engineering degree.

I still do most of my own work, including on my kid's and Grandchildren's cars. It's not like it used to be when there was plenty of room under the hood to take care of business and some of the models today, the mechanic has to have a "special" tool that the dealership only has access to, so that the mechanic can do the job more easily. Because I was treated like an apprentice, I was not paid flat rate, just hourly rate. But, I know some of the line mechanics made huge salaries. Like you said, some mechanics could make 50-60 hours of pay for a 40 hour work week. The only think that I never got any experience on is automatic transmission work. Those things have a thousand pieces in them and they are very complicated, if you do not have the experience.

The dealership mechanics in Cleveland belonged to a union back in the day. How it is today, I don't know. I really enjoyed working on those big Electras and Wildcats. The Rivieras were a bit harder to work on because they had that short front end with the big engine. I remember working on the Buick engines. Man, they were huge. The Wildcats had that '401 and '425 engine in them, but there was still plenty of room to work on them because of their huge front end.

 

[debodun]

Here is the bill for my visit to Honda:

 

[Don M.]

Start thinking about a new car. This car has 130K miles on it, and replacing the AC will probably cost you about half of what the car is worth. Even buying a new AC compressor from a site like RockAuto.com, will cost around $200, and then you would still have to pay hundreds for install, etc. As someone else mentioned, installing new transmission fluid without replacing the filter was a Huge mistake. Then, charging you $115 to clean the rear brake drums was a ripoff. I doubt that you would get more than a couple thousand "trade in" on a new car, and probably little more than scrap value trade on another used car.

If you intend to continue driving for several more years, $20K for a new compact car would be your best bet...however, if your old Honda is in basically good shape...no dents, rust, runs good, etc., spending less than a thousand dollars to keep it going for a few more years would be the most "cost effective" approach. At the minimum, I would probably not go back to this dealer for any needed repairs.

 

[JimW]

Here is the bill for my visit to Honda:

View attachment 55150

I do find it funny that the Honda dealer refused to work on your front brakes because they weren't "genuine Honda parts" but in your quote above they have quoted an aftermarket a/c compressor. You should ask them about that. I would also ask them why they would change the transmission fluid without replacing the filter. That's kind of like taking a shower and then putting on dirty underwear.

Also, someone needs to tell them how to spell "squeak".

 

[JimW]

Start thinking about a new car. This car has 130K miles on it, and replacing the AC will probably cost you about half of what the car is worth. Even buying a new AC compressor from a site like RockAuto.com, will cost around $200, and then you would still have to pay hundreds for install, etc. As someone else mentioned, installing new transmission fluid without replacing the filter was a Huge mistake. Then, charging you $115 to clean the rear brake drums was a ripoff. I doubt that you would get more than a couple thousand "trade in" on a new car, and probably little more than scrap value trade on another used car.

If you intend to continue driving for several more years, $20K for a new compact car would be your best bet...however, if your old Honda is in basically good shape...no dents, rust, runs good, etc., spending less than a thousand dollars to keep it going for a few more years would be the most "cost effective" approach. At the minimum, I would probably not go back to this dealer for any needed repairs.

I agree with everything Don said.

Having a car that's paid for is money in the bank, no monthly payments and lower insurance premiums. As long as it gets you from point A to point B without too much headache, it might suit you to fix what's wrong with it and keep driving it rather than investing in something new.