11 killed by terrorists at satirical newspaper in Paris! called for

Debby, I say again that it is the Iranian killers that have settled in the coastal Palestinian area that causes all the problems you keep complaining about. Why does Israel keep borders so closed as you claim. Children and adults dressed as bombs going from Palestine to Israel is one good reason. Radicals trying to get into Israel to explode on buses or in markets are other good reasons to shut the gates and keep people from transiting into and across Jewish living areas. Yet you complain about the Jewish causing the problems. Jews do deserve a right to live without fear generated by those Iranian rebels. In the early years those fences did not exist. But after examples of hate and explosions the Jewish had to defend themselves.

No reason for my responding any more to your biased claims that it is all the Jews that are causing the problems. Not so at all. The Jewish do want to have peace but as long as the Iranian radicals want to hang around and explode things in Israel, those lands will be kept closed. I believe I read recently that those Palestinians have been allowed to take their boats out see again.

Your posts are so biased against the Jews and failing to recognize that the Palestinians have come close to signing peace objectives more than once till those radicals under Iran's guidance interfere. Makes me wonder what your heritage might be. You posts are so biased and distorted that they are really hard to believe at all. So get angry with me and pout some more. I am now retiring from responding to your posts. Far too much of your posts are one sided and stretched reality.
 

Quote Originally Posted by Elyzabeth View Post

KVvet

"I read copy cat attacks are now in Germany. I cannot feel for France. they brought this terrorists plague on themselves".

YOU ARE SO TOTALLY WRONG AND OUT OF TOUCH...

NOBODY BUT NOBODY brings the terrorist's plagues upon themselves...

Barbaric terrorists do that

Don't that the blame away from the terrorists where it belongs !!!

THIS IS HOW "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" DAMAGES DEMOCRACY !"

KCVET reply:

"check out the 2005 French riots and the cause. which spread though out the EU

and I am NOT pc "

......I should check out the French riots of 2005...and their cause ???

That's a pretty big ask, in order to prove some point you are not making, isn't it?

Why don't you just say what your point is?
 
WhatInThe said:
I've always found the Europeans in general beyond upfront to the point of being rude, arrogant and/or ignorant. That's Europe and most living there accept it, they might not like it but that is a European. It's the same arrogance that inspired 'manifest destiny' and the colonization of many a territory. I always found the Brits and Germans to be more rude and arrogant. Every nation or area has an underlining of racism, prejudice or ignorance. Yes the French are wishy washy socialists who actually just had to abandon a 75% tax rate but as with any terrorism acting like a dissed street gang banger does not warrant murder-a crime.
Click to expand...
Pretty rude and arrogant of YOU to post this on here where there are quite a few 'Brits' who enjoy the forum.Most people on here choose to be friendly.
 

BobF said:
Debby, I say again that it is the Iranian killers that have settled in the coastal Palestinian area that causes all the problems you keep complaining about. Why does Israel keep borders so closed as you claim. Children and adults dressed as bombs going from Palestine to Israel is one good reason. Radicals trying to get into Israel to explode on buses or in markets are other good reasons to shut the gates and keep people from transiting into and across Jewish living areas. Yet you complain about the Jewish causing the problems. Jews do deserve a right to live without fear generated by those Iranian rebels. In the early years those fences did not exist. But after examples of hate and explosions the Jewish had to defend themselves.

No reason for my responding any more to your biased claims that it is all the Jews that are causing the problems. Not so at all. The Jewish do want to have peace but as long as the Iranian radicals want to hang around and explode things in Israel, those lands will be kept closed. I believe I read recently that those Palestinians have been allowed to take their boats out see again.

Your posts are so biased against the Jews and failing to recognize that the Palestinians have come close to signing peace objectives more than once till those radicals under Iran's guidance interfere. Makes me wonder what your heritage might be. You posts are so biased and distorted that they are really hard to believe at all. So get angry with me and pout some more. I am now retiring from responding to your posts. Far too much of your posts are one sided and stretched reality.
Click to expand...


Do you actually have any idea of how the Palestinian people are treated by Israel? Have you ever REALLY looked at the issues those people face, or are you just responding out of a 'wealth' of information passed on by MSM? Because if it was all as one sided as you seem to think, then please explain why human rights groups (including Jewish ones like B'Tselem http://www.btselem.org/statistics) and Oxfam and the UN and the Red Cross all point to ongoing, daily human rights abuses against a weakened population?

Certainly Jewish people deserve to live in peace just as you and I do, but their government is going out of their way to make sure that the animosity between the two groups is NEVER overcome. You have just witnessed a US weaponized and funded government blatantly and openly murder almost 2000 people who were women and children and old people with nowhere to go to escape and you blame the victims.

Did you know that Arafat actually signed the Oslo Agreement and stated that Israel had a right to live in peace and without violence? And yet here we are still arguing the same issue endlessly. My views are facts that are available to the world (including you) but the problem is that most are unwilling to actually look for facts.

You wonder what my heritage may be.....oh my gosh, desperate there Bob. For someone who comes from a country of free speech and founded on a desire to escape to a new life where man's very right to pursue happiness as he saw fit and without the control of an overweening government was a given, you sure have given up the right to actually pursue knowledge, information and peace for all. You see, 'heritage' has nothing to do with a mind that thinks for itself and isn't willing to be force fed the 'pap' that passes for information but is really just what governments need for us to believe.

Tell you what, IF the day ever comes that you really want an understanding of the Palestinian/Israeli question from the standpoint of the experts who are there on the ground, I'll happily pass on dozens of links to the writings of those people, humanitarian groups and UN reports on the violence and abuse perpetrated by Israel on a daily basis. Just give me an hours notice so that I can put them all onto a single comment for you. Then you will be able to say that you are educated on the issue.
 
Elyzabeth said:
Quote Originally Posted by Elyzabeth View Post

KVvet

"I read copy cat attacks are now in Germany. I cannot feel for France. they brought this terrorists plague on themselves".

YOU ARE SO TOTALLY WRONG AND OUT OF TOUCH...

NOBODY BUT NOBODY brings the terrorist's plagues upon themselves...

Barbaric terrorists do that

Don't that the blame away from the terrorists where it belongs !!!

THIS IS HOW "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" DAMAGES DEMOCRACY !"

KCVET reply:

"check out the 2005 French riots and the cause. which spread though out the EU

and I am NOT pc "

......I should check out the French riots of 2005...and their cause ???

That's a pretty big ask, in order to prove some point you are not making, isn't it?

Why don't you just say what your point is?
Click to expand...

know how to use a search engine?? its all there. point is back then they had open door policies for immigrants. who flooded in. they had no income to support themselves and the host Gov was not about to support them. there's the burning fuse. and the bomb exploded in riots. with copy cat attacks all over the EU, most countries today require proof of income. no dead beats allowed. seems france is a soft target for riots and terrorists.

archived

Immigrant Rioting Flares in France for Ninth Night

story
 
I read an interesting piece in Huffington Post today. It talks about the inequity in where 'free speech' is allowed and not allowed: taken from the article (and I haven't verified it but here it is for your consideration)

"...And why have you been so silent on the glaring double standards? Did you not know that Charlie Hebdo sacked the veteran French cartoonist Maurice Sinet in 2008 for making an allegedly anti-Semitic remark? Were you not aware that Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that published caricatures of the Prophet in 2005, reportedly rejected cartoons mocking Christ because they would "provoke an outcry" and proudly declared it would "in no circumstances... publish Holocaust cartoons"?..."

The point the author is making is that at Charlie Hebdo and others, it is politically acceptable to abuse the sensibilities of all Muslims (even the peaceful ones), but it's off limits to do the same to Christians and Jews. My question is, if free speech still allows us to protect the feelings of some groups, why isn't it applicable on behalf of all groups? Why are we so intent on further alienating and isolating (and thereby encouraging the growth of angry, [FONT=Georgia, Century, Times, serif]disenfranchised) Muslim young people and radicals (which every group has a certain percentage of). And who is it that decides which exceptions are to be made?

[/FONT]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/charlie-hebdo-free-speech_b_6462584.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World
 
I think you will find that Charlie Hebdo frequently mock the Pope, Jesus, and also hypocritical politians; their satire is directed at anybody, and everybody.
 
Debby said:
Do you actually have any idea of how the Palestinian people are treated by Israel? Have you ever REALLY looked at the issues those people face, or are you just responding out of a 'wealth' of information passed on by MSM? Because if it was all as one sided as you seem to think, then please explain why human rights groups (including Jewish ones like B'Tselem http://www.btselem.org/statistics) and Oxfam and the UN and the Red Cross all point to ongoing, daily human rights abuses against a weakened population?

Certainly Jewish people deserve to live in peace just as you and I do, but their government is going out of their way to make sure that the animosity between the two groups is NEVER overcome. You have just witnessed a US weaponized and funded government blatantly and openly murder almost 2000 people who were women and children and old people with nowhere to go to escape and you blame the victims.

Did you know that Arafat actually signed the Oslo Agreement and stated that Israel had a right to live in peace and without violence? And yet here we are still arguing the same issue endlessly. My views are facts that are available to the world (including you) but the problem is that most are unwilling to actually look for facts.

You wonder what my heritage may be.....oh my gosh, desperate there Bob. For someone who comes from a country of free speech and founded on a desire to escape to a new life where man's very right to pursue happiness as he saw fit and without the control of an overweening government was a given, you sure have given up the right to actually pursue knowledge, information and peace for all. You see, 'heritage' has nothing to do with a mind that thinks for itself and isn't willing to be force fed the 'pap' that passes for information but is really just what governments need for us to believe.

Tell you what, IF the day ever comes that you really want an understanding of the Palestinian/Israeli question from the standpoint of the experts who are there on the ground, I'll happily pass on dozens of links to the writings of those people, humanitarian groups and UN reports on the violence and abuse perpetrated by Israel on a daily basis. Just give me an hours notice so that I can put them all onto a single comment for you. Then you will be able to say that you are educated on the issue.
Click to expand...

Yes I do have a lot of information on how the Jewish folks have treated the Palestinians. That is why I wonder how you can be so biased and wrong about what is happening there in the coastal Palestinian lands. That is where the Iranian terroriest have moved in and launch rockets from the streets then hide the launchers in the houses and churches till wanted again. That is not peace from within he Palestinian lands at all.

Yes the Iraeli folks have had peace agreements with the Palestininians and all were waiting for the signatures from the Palestinians, which never came.

You are so hateful towards the Jewish folks is why I asked the question of what beliefs you have. Never answered directly and that is your choice. What you need is a real review of how the relations between the Jewish and Palestinians has gone. From promise, to promise, to oblivion. Time after time with the Israeli's and others sitting at the peace tables waiting while the Palestinians, with the Iranian hateful leading them fail to arrive and sign the papers.

Keep posting your twisted ideas, not facts, and hopefully in time no one will pay any more attention to your babbling. I now for sure I will not argue against your air headed stuff as most of it is contrary to what I have read and watched for several years now. Most of the good life areas are those run by the Israeli folks while most of the hateful and ugly places are those run by the Iranian hateful troops that came and took over the coastal Palestinian areas. If Israel had nothing to about defending themselves from these radical Iranian types then there would be no destruction or fences or acts of war to try to end the crimes against the Jewish. That is something you seem to miss in the coastal Palestinian and Israel situation.

And for Arafat at Oslo, a joke for all to see. Public statements and such but when back home there were no sit downs and peace signatures to be found. This is exactly the same sort of action that Clinton found when he had the Palestinian types and Israeli leaders meet in the US with him. Photo's and hand shakes and agreeing terms. Till they went back home and again the Palestinian leadership refused to sign the papers and allow peace to take over in the lands of Palestinians and Jewish. A lovely bunch of two face folks. It is not the Palestinians, the Israeli folks, or the US or other countries. Look to Iran who has publicaly said they would destroy Israel. Time to wake up to reality.
 
So are you folks saying that other journalists don't loose their jobs if they poke fun at Jews?

http://rehmat1.com/2015/01/14/bbc-reporter-palestinians-suffer-hugely-at-jewish-hands/ On this link, a British journalist, Tim Wilcox by name, questioned what appears to him to be a double standard and British Jewery demanded he be fired and his boss, a Danny Cohen demanded that he apologize or loose his job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo Wikipedia listing the firing of Maurice Sennet for what was deemed an anti-Semitic remark. He later sued Charlie Hebdo and won his case.

And today, France is arresting people for 'hate speech and anti-semitism'. What happened to the free speech that Charlie Hebdo counted on to hide behind as they offended Muslims around the world?

Not sure if anything would have happened one way or the other if the newspaper had insulted Christians, but apparently Jews are off limits.
 
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BobF said:
Yes .............. Time to wake up to reality.
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You want to focus on a small group of people who have taken over the government of that strip of land, and made themselves rich in the process, and you ignore the plight of Palestinians across the region. Why are you doing that? I think the best thing that could happen to start with in Gaza is that Hamas be gone and that would eliminate one of Israel's excuses for not honestly discussing peace.

As for Arafat, he did sign a letter recognizing Israel and promised to end the violence. Following is a link to a paper written about the whole process, written by a Jewish professor at Oxford University. http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The Rise and Fall of the Oslo Peace Process.html

I'm not hateful to Jewish people in general Bob, but I despise what the Israeli ADMINISTRATION and the IDF are doing daily to the Palestinians. Do you not detect the difference between 'individuals' and 'Administration"? I've told you repeatedly what my beliefs are, either you or someone else here and if you want to ignore that, well not much I can do there is there?

Everything I post is backed up by credible observers of the situation. People on the ground in that region. Journalists, Human Rights groups, University professors, UN observers and reporters, recognized historians, your own politicians who have had face to face meetings with all the individuals involved and ex-IDF soldiers who talk about their experiences as Israels enforcers. Who do you listen to? CNN, NBC.... Fox? Reality, really?

Former Israeli IDF documents IDF abuse in Gaza and WB http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/9/12/part_2_former_israeli_soldier_eran

B'Tselem on Settler violence, No Accountability http://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/dual_legal_system

Red Cross on 'Life in the Shadows of the settlements' https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/photo-gallery/israel-photos-160210.htm

Food deprivation for Palestinians http://www.thenational.ae/thenation...on-diet-for-gaza-shows-the-blockade-will-fall

Amnesty International on water shortages for Palestinians http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/israel-rations-palestinians-trickle-water-20091027

Ex-IDF Testimonials on abuse of civilian Palestinians http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/videos/72822


Like I offered, dozens of links.....please ask for them.
 
Sorry, but you are so far fetched and you have no time for reality at all. No need to ask you for anything as all you seem to believe are those just as messed up as you are. No matter what I have posted on this Israel situation you have your own twisted ideas. Israel is not after the Palestinians as you keep claiming. I have told you how the hateful ones from Iran are the problem but you continue to ignore what I have posted. Israel and the Palestinians have agreed many times to stop the problems, but then the jerks representing Iran keep stirring the pot. Israel is forced to fight back to save their people from these bomb squads and killers. You object to Israels defense of itself from crime and killings. Why? I say it again in different words. It is time for you to grow up and realize just what is happening in the Israel and Palestinian territories. The same will happen to others if Israel fails to defend itself successfully. Keep calling my posts to be wrong if you feel they are. Just be aware that there are plenty that think Israel deserves to fight for its freedoms and security from those radicals from Iran. Without those radicals the Palestinians will be free of continued threats and attacks. So some folks need to redo their thinking a lot.
 
BobF said:
Sorry, but you are so far fetched and you have no time for reality at all. No need to ask you for anything as all you seem to believe are those just as messed up as you are. No matter what I have posted on this Israel situation you have your own twisted ideas. Israel is not after the Palestinians as you keep claiming. I have told you how the hateful ones from Iran are the problem but you continue to ignore what I have posted. Israel and the Palestinians have agreed many times to stop the problems, but then the jerks representing Iran keep stirring the pot. Israel is forced to fight back to save their people from these bomb squads and killers. You object to Israels defense of itself from crime and killings. Why? I say it again in different words. It is time for you to grow up and realize just what is happening in the Israel and Palestinian territories. The same will happen to others if Israel fails to defend itself successfully. Keep calling my posts to be wrong if you feel they are. Just be aware that there are plenty that think Israel deserves to fight for its freedoms and security from those radicals from Iran. Without those radicals the Palestinians will be free of continued threats and attacks. So some folks need to redo their thinking a lot.
Click to expand...


I have never said Israel doesn't have a right to protect itself. Never. But they have never offered the 'peaceful' communities of Palestinians anything that would encourage a growth in 'peace' and you will not find one example where they do that and instead there is a dearth of violence, deprivations and abuses even when they aren't involved in a conflict. And when the 'peaceful' Palestinians hold PEACE MARCHES, Israel meets that with rubber bullets and violence. As for everything you've posted on Israel, well, not much there. Your opinion??? Based on what? Give me some human rights groups that refute any of my links. Give me some articles from non-biased websites that show Oxfam and all the others to be wrong. One other thing that I've kind of made a point of in all of my reading is not to give credence to any Palestinian websites. I intentionally did this because I figured that I could weed out a greater degree of bias on the info that I was getting. So when I ask you for an unbiased website, what I mean is where Jewish people aren't providing the information. Fairs fair right?

The UN, Red Cross, B'Tselem, Oxfam, ex-IDF soldiers and all the others who testify to the abuses of the Israeli government 'are messed up' and you're going to just go with CNN? Okay, well free country. Very, very interesting though because it's definitely a confirmation.
 
Here's a ten year old documentary on the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, and the US media coverage of it, for those interested. It is long, and I've only watched a part of it.

 
You are so twisted that you take a few folks comments to all inclusive. I have been following these issues for years and far too often it has been the Palestinians that fail to offer and agree to Israeli peace offers with Pres Clinton or to the Oslo meetings and other efforts. But you fail to acknolwedge that and keep saying it is the US or others that are the problem. So from my point of view it is you that is all twisted and following some bleeding heart nonsense over facts. What I posted to you was good info but you seem to wish to treat all I post as trash. Your problem, so live with it yourself. All those years with Arafat were jokes. He would go to the meetings, shake hands, appear to be agreeing on terms, but then go home and have nothing but hate comments for the news folks. He was not the same as the current Iranian killers that control much of the coastal Palestinian area. But you can't even recognize that those are the ones that cause Israel to have so many problems with the local Palestinians. If they were gone there would not be so much trouble for the Palestinians or Israeli folks. Maybe peace could happen. I would hate to have those kinds of folks in Canada or the US. If we did we would have a long and hard war going quickly and no one would like the outcomes of those actions either.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Here's a ten year old documentary on the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, and the US media coverage of it, for those interested. It is long, and I've only watched a part of it.

Click to expand...

Over an hour in length. I will try to copy the link and keep the watching for some other time. Thanks for the possible link.
 
When a 'nation' openly states, 'we will not rest until Israel is annihilated', from Hamas, 'we are not terrorists we just want to destroy Israel., speaks for itself
I'm sure they will with their stone throwing.
 
One more video to watch Bob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ

This is a talk given by Miko Peled who is the son of a decorated Israeli general and who is ex-IDF himself. Their family also lost a niece to a Palestinian suicide bomber a few years ago and he now goes around the country giving talks that talk about his support for the Palestinian people (note: not support for Hamas or the PA, but the people).
 
About time you said something positive about the Israeli people. All your twisted hate nonsense needs to end. This is just what I have been posting about that you keep denying. I keep saying the Israeli folks have good justification for the wars they have to go through as they try to build up good will with the Palestinians and hope for peace. If it was not for Hamas there would not be all this killing going on at all.

I will watch the film later when I have some time free. Nice to see you take at least a partial step in the right direction.
 
I've always had the same attitude Bob and haven't taken a 'step in any direction'. I have NEVER supported Hamas's activities although I do understand that the Palestinian people voted them in, in an act of desperation because nobody else seemed to be willing to stand up for them at the time. The problem for the Palestinian people is that folks can't seem to understand the level of desperation and frustration that they live with every day (not just when Israel is blasting them). I would bet that if you were being treated the same way by the government of your area, you'd be crying out for help too.

By the way, did you happen to look at any of the links I provided?
 
Thanks for the great link Seabreeze. I'm about 1/2 way through it and I can easily say that I knew everything that it states.

I do hope that you take the time to watch it Bob because it is very enlightening.
 
Debby said:
I've always had the same attitude Bob and haven't taken a 'step in any direction'. I have NEVER supported Hamas's activities although I do understand that the Palestinian people voted them in, in an act of desperation because nobody else seemed to be willing to stand up for them at the time. The problem for the Palestinian people is that folks can't seem to understand the level of desperation and frustration that they live with every day (not just when Israel is blasting them). I would bet that if you were being treated the same way by the government of your area, you'd be crying out for help too.

By the way, did you happen to look at any of the links I provided?
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I do know that the Hamas folks pushed themselves onto the coastal Palestinians. But the mountain Palestinian folks did not have to worry about that at all. It seems like far too many folks in the area just shut up and allowed the Hamas to do as they decided. Immediate end to a lot of the cooperative with Israel actions happened then. And be cause of Hamas acting like killers and doing so all the time, Israel had to take action at times to try to settle things down and provide a few months of peace for all in the area. No reason to be slamming Israel for that at all. Peace will never come to the area until Iran gets shut down but with our current President, that is not likely to happen.

Yes I have looked as some links, yours and others, but I also have a lot of things in my life to worry about. Trying to stop all this blame it all on the Israel folks take far too much time from me so I don't get too do it all. Today for example, I have spent most of my time driving the wife around town for shopping, library, hair cutters, so not much time to please everyone. I also have a couple other threads on this forum to work with and a couple other forums that I like to work with too. I can only share so much, then fatigue.
 
BobF said:
I do know that the Hamas folks pushed themselves onto the coastal Palestinians. But the mountain Palestinian folks did not have to worry about that at all. It seems like far too many folks in the area just shut up and allowed the Hamas to do as they decided. Immediate end to a lot of the cooperative with Israel actions happened then. And be cause of Hamas acting like killers and doing so all the time, Israel had to take action at times to try to settle things down and provide a few months of peace for all in the area. No reason to be slamming Israel for that at all. Peace will never come to the area until Iran gets shut down but with our current President, that is not likely to happen.

Yes I have looked as some links, yours and others, but I also have a lot of things in my life to worry about. Trying to stop all this blame it all on the Israel folks take far too much time from me so I don't get too do it all. Today for example, I have spent most of my time driving the wife around town for shopping, library, hair cutters, so not much time to please everyone. I also have a couple other threads on this forum to work with and a couple other forums that I like to work with too. I can only share so much, then fatigue.
Click to expand...



Bob what you are not understanding is that prior to Hamas being elected, Israel was doing the same things to the civilian Palestinian population which resulted in the people voting for a group who said they would 'protect them, speak for them, fight the injustice for them'. Israel isn't reacting so much as the Palestinian people are reacting to occupation and continual provocation. The Israeli government deserves to be 'slammed' because they are an illegal, occupying force who brutalize helpless people.

If an occupying nation came to Arizona, and they were funded by a huge superpower, and they had all the latest military hardware and they shot your children, refused to give you building permits and then bulldozed your 'illegal' house and made you homeless or bulldozed your house because your angry brother did a criminal act or told you that you could not come out of your house for days at a time even to take your wife to the emergency ward of the hospital as she has a heart attack......how would you feel? What would your reaction be? That is what the Palestinian people live with every day. How can you not be sympathetic to them? I do not understand that.

I'm glad that you looked at some of the links and not for my own sense of importance, but for the sake of the people that are being abused, battered and oppressed! Remember when Hitler's SS were rounding up Jews and we look back at the German people who said nothing, who looked the other way and we ask 'how could they let it happen'? Well the West is looking the other way and saying nothing now and have been doing so for fifty years.

My speaking out is based on the premise that if I am oppressed/murdered/imprisoned falsely, I would hope that someone would speak out on my behalf and I'm sure that you would hope the same thing. We must do the same for others who need us to speak out now for them but we need to do it from a place of knowledge and that is something that you won't get from North American media (and I include Canada's media in that condemnation).
 
KCVET:

Do I know how to use a search engine?
Pretty insulting!

However, I don't want to go searching around to find ways in which to prove YOUR point !
You need to present your own point !!!!
Not I.

Your post manages to be both totally unsubstantiated and rude at the same time!
 

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