23 Americans said to be on the Malaysia flight that just went down !

Davey Jones

Well-known Member
Location
Florida
Oh great!! Another Malaysia airliner down.

Flying at 30,000 feet either crashed or shot down?

A Malaysian airliner reportedly with 295 people on board has crashed in Ukraine near the Russian border, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lump
 

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This mornings news reports are of another Maylasia flight; this one crashed between Russia and the Ukraine.
The first reports are that the plane was at cruising altitude, about 33,000 feet; and they think it was shot down with a sophisticated missle that probably was Russian made.
The flight left from Amsterdam, heading for Kuala-Lampur this morning. Since my daughter was also flying out of Amsterdam today, I started paying close attention to what they were talking about; but there was no reason for her to be on a flight going to Kuala-Lampur.
Now, they are reporting that there were 23 Americans listed on the flight record. The President is supposed to be speaking about it soon, from what they are reporting on the news.
 
People everywhere are wondering that, Ina, from what i have been reading. i have no idea how it would be related, but it is strange that they were both the exact same kind of Boeing 777.
This one apparently went off of the normal flight pattern to cross into the war zone, and it is not known why it would do that.
I have seen some strange things being reported already. They claim to have already found a piece of fuselage with a 2" hole that they said was made by the missile that hit the plane; but other say that it would not just have left a neat little round hole, but torn into the metal on the plane.
Also, they have pictures of the passports, and they all look fresh and new, not torn, burned or bloody like you would expect to see. And how did they find them all so fast with bodies strewn over 9 miles of wreckage, and in pieces ??
 
let's see who get's the black box's
I think they already said that Moscow has the black box. Apparently, there was a Russian news crew on-scene right after the plane crashed (how strange is that ?), and they have footage showing the bodies strewn all over (too gruesome, I stopped watching when they got to that part), and much of the wreckage didn't burn.
They think it split up mid-air, people, luggage, etc. all tumbled out, and the parts of the wreckage that had no fire just fell to the ground over several miles. The part that they show burning appears to be the front where the engines must have caught fire.
If the black box was in the tail, they would have been able to get to it right away, as soon as they located the tail section of the plane.

Another interesting coincidence is that today is the anniversary of that TWA flight that was shot down here in the US several years ago; and even though people actually saw the missiles, the government denied that it was a missile.
This time, they were saying it was shot down before anyone had time to even get to the wreckage, let alone investigate it.
 
Here's the answer.
While the militants accused Ukrainian jets of shooting the plane down, separatists have said that they took control of such a missile system last month and had used it to shoot down a Ukrainian military transport plane that was destroyed on Monday.
 
Here's another one...they say the missle that was fired was ment for a military plane that was also flying in that area.
So the missle made a mistake and went for the airliner instead???
 
I don't think this incident is related to previous ones. The flight path is perfectly normal. To keep fuel consumption to a minimum, airlines fly along great circle routes, the shortest distance between airports. Qantas has made the decision not to fly over this particular conflict zone but Malaysian airlines did not because the route was declared safe by the relevant authorities.

A Ukrainian military troop carrying plane was shot down about a week ago by the rebels and in all likelihood they thought this passenger plane was another one.
They weren't targeting Americans because the passengers were a mixed lot, Dutch, UK, Australians, Indonesians etc. We believe there were 27 Aussies on board (according to the Dutch in Amsterdam) but there are still a lot of passengers not yet identified by nationality.

No-one is claiming responsibility but intelligence is indicating that it was the rebels using equipment they captured from the Ukrainians or supplied by the Russians.

Malaysia Airlines MH17: Phone tap reveals pro-Russian separatists claiming responsibility for passenger plane downed over Ukraine

Updated 5 minutes ago

Photo: "We have just shot down a plane": Pro-Russian separatist Igor Bezler. (Wikipedia Commons)
Related Story: Live: Airliner shot down over Ukraine; 27 Australians among 298 dead

Map: Ukraine

Ukrainian wire taps appear to have captured pro-Russian separatists claiming responsibility for shooting down a Malaysian airliner over rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, killing all 289 people on board, including at least 27 Australians.
Ukraine's Kyiv Post newspaper has posted what it says is a conversation between a separatist commander and Russian intelligence officer Vasili Geranin.
In the transcript, released by Ukraine's security service, the separatist, identified as Igor Bezler, says: "We have just shot down a plane. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast)."

The paper also has a transcript of what it says is a conversation between two separatists identified as "Major" and "Greek".
"The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first 200. We have found the first 200 - a civilian," Major says, referring to the codeword for a dead person.

"In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger aircraft.

"These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.""



The paper also posted part of a third conversation between Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin and an unidentified militant.



Video: Kyiv Post transcript of alleged separatists speaking about downed airliner

"Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It's a civilian one - fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this," the militant says.

"They say on TV it's AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?"

Kozitsin replies: "That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be f***ing flying. There is a war going on."
Military analysts have speculated that militants mistook the passenger jet for a military aircraft.

Update - 153 passengers were Dutch and included a number of AIDS experts and researchers heading to Melbourne for a conference.
 
One of the earlier reports out said that Vladimer Putin was in a plane that went over the same area at about the same time, and the report suggested that the missile was intended to hit Putin's plane instead.
This appears to be one of those reports that comes out early on, and then vanishes as the story progresses.

There certainly are some interesting coincidences going on though. The "numbers people" are all over this because of there being so many "7's" coming up with the crash. The first Maylasia flight was flight #370, crashed on March 7th, was a Boeing 777.
The one today was flight #17, crashed 7/17/14, was a Boeing 777. The number of passengers was 295. 2+9+5=16, 1+6=7.
I am not into the numbers stuff, but many people are, and they say it is always significant.

Then there is the Dutch passenger who posted a picture of the plane before they left Amsterdam, "in case it disappeared".

The Russians had a news crew in the area when the plane went down.

President Obama was on the phone with Russian President Putin when the plane went down, and they were discussing it before the first news reports came out.

The White House was on lockdown for some kind of threat immediately after the crash.

The wreckage was strewn for miles, but they found all of the passports (in perfect condition) and had posted pictures of them within an hour or so after the crash.

Radio contact was apparently lost about 1/2 hour before the plane crashed, and it was off-course at the time it was targeted.
 
Then there is the Dutch passenger who posted a picture of the plane before they left Amsterdam, "in case it disappeared".
I think that was an ironic reference to the Malaysian airline that went off course and disappeared. He wasn't being prescient. He was making a joke.
 
Here is a report that is reasonably up to date, and which does not contain unsubstantiated rumour

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17: what we know


Map: Ukraine

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine early this morning (AEST), resulting in the deaths of all 298 people on board.
Here is what we know about the doomed flight.
Where was the plane travelling to and from?

Flight MH17 was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpar. The Boeing 777 took off at 8:30pm Thursday (AEST) and disappeared from radar 12:15am Friday (AEST).
The plane crashed in eastern Ukraine, close to the border with Russia.
It came down in rebel-held territory. No distress call was issued. Video posted on YouTube appears to show debris raining from the sky and a fireball on the ground.


Infographic: A map shows the path of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which was shot down over Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing 298 people. (ABC News)

Who was on board?

There were 283 passengers and 15 crew on board.
According to Dutch officials, the breakdown of nationalities on board is as follows:

  • 154 Netherlands
  • 43 Malaysia
  • 27 Australia
  • 12 Indonesia
  • 9 United Kingdom
  • 4 Germany
  • 4 Belgium
  • 3 Philippines
  • 1 Canada
  • 43 unverified
DFAT is seeking to confirm the number of Australians on board the flight and says there may have been more than 27.


Was the plane definitely shot down?

It appears to be the case. Ukrainian wire taps appear to have captured pro-Russian separatists claiming responsibility for downing the jet, but there has been no official confirmation.

US vice president Joe Biden says the aircraft was "blown out of the sky" and it was "not an accident", while Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said the downing of the airliner was an act of terrorism.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott told Parliament that the plane was shot down, apparently by "Russian-backed rebels".
However, rebels in the region have not officially claimed responsibility.

A pro-Russian separatist leaders in Ukraine's east, Alexander Boradai, blamed the Ukrainian air force.
"The passenger aircraft has been shot down, indeed - shot down by Ukrainian air forces. To tell the truth is a provocation on purpose. In principle this is not the first time for Ukraine to shoot down passenger aircraft," he said.

Did the rebels intend to target the passenger plane?

The wire taps would suggest that they did not.
"They say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?" a militant was recorded as saying.

Aviation expert Andrew Charlton says while a passenger plane looks different from a military aircraft, mistakes can happen.
"It is quite difficult to make the distinction. Aircraft are moving very fast; they're very, very high. At this point it was at 10,000 metres - 33,000 feet. That's a long way up. It's very hard to tell them apart," he said.
How was the plane shot down?

What shot down flight MH17?




Military analysts say a medium-range ground-to-air missile is the weapon most likely to have been used.


Military analysts say a medium-range surface-to-air missile is the weapon most likely to be used to shoot down a passenger airliner.
Both Russian and Ukrainian forces have variants of the Buk, a surface-to-air missile system - including SA-11 and SA-17 missiles - that can hit targets at an altitude of up to 25 kilometres.

Shoulder-launched weapons have been blamed for the downing of several Ukrainian aircraft in recent days, but those attacks occurred at much lower altitudes, analysts said.

"A short-range, shoulder-launched weapon has been responsible for several aircraft lost in the last few days ... but it wouldn't be able to reach an altitude of 30-odd thousand feet," said Edward Hunt, senior defence analyst at IHS Jane's consultancy.

The international reaction: what's next?

The Prime Minister said the Russian ambassador would be called before Foreign Minister Julie Bishop today.

Meanwhile, US president Barack Obama directed US officials to do all they could to support an investigation into what caused the crash. Mr Obama and his Ukrainian counterpart have emphasised that evidence from the crash must remain in Ukraine so international investigators have a chance to look at all of it. The US president is said to have told Putin that the US could impose more sanctions on Russia if Moscow does not take steps to de-escalate the Ukraine crisis.
 
Good, accurate info Warri. Thank you for that. American TV reporting was getting absolutly crazy on all the speculating that was going on. One reporter actually said that if a missile had struck the plane, would it break apart and fall from the sky? :confused:

I agree, Pappy. Our media has turned into a 'National Enquirer' copycat, they are the root of problems in this country.
 
Talk over here is about what action should be taken. The US has imposed sanctions on individual Russians but apparently is now considering extending them to financial institutions which will hurt more. The EU countries have so far held back from sanctions because they are dependent on Russian oil for their energy needs but it looks like they might now come in line with the Americans.

We are due to host the G20 later this year and there is some discussion about whether Putin should be banned from attending. One way or another it might now be possible to either prevent the Russians from supplying the rebels with arms or for the West to give aid to the Ukrainian government. Somehow neither option fills me with confidence. I just hope this isn't how WW III begins.
 


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