A small step that might just change the world, (expectations of our children)

If its necessary to clarify to anyone seemingly unsure as to my meaning, it is simply as stated, "encouraging children to appreciate parents who love them", (this in my mind automatically rules out anyone abusing their child, and its odd to me that the thought ever appeared in anyone's mind).

I do know the head of a government organisation with responsibility towards children in Wales twenty years ago once stated: "he could envisage his not seeing his children being in their best interests if he had abused them",...., in other words "he could envisage either abusing his own children, or being judged as doing so", (and "every other parent has to be considered as being a potential abuser", is the only inference I can take from his words).

I think the operative word there is "if" in the same way as someone might say of another person who has been accused or is suspected of having commited some offence - "If she/he abused her/him, then they should have no further contact" etc etc
 

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I've lived in other countries, and have known lots of immigrants because of my jobs. Many people from other cultures more or less revere their parents. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. There are downsides.
 
I have been to Japan and spent time there and in Okinawa for several months while in the military. These people all but worship their parents and most elders are treated with the very highest degree of respect. I have also noticed that I can’t say that all minors are alike. Some minors do not follow that same pattern of discipline, but I would believe that the majority of minors do.

I know a Japanese family here in the U.S. that have told me their 4 children have at times behaved like many American children do with disrespecting them. They told me that they do not tolerate any disrespect and unlike American parents who will continually threaten to punish them somehow, they do not threaten. Discipline is handed out immediately. the dad told us that his oldest son failed to do his chores of mowing the lawn. When his dad reminded him of his obligation, the son got snippy with his dad, who immediately took his son’s car keys from him for 3 days. His son apologized, bowed to him and went outside to mow the lawn. Three days later he got his car keys back, the son again bowed and thanked his dad.
 

I think the operative word there is "if" in the same way as someone might say of another person who has been accused or is suspected of having commited some offence - "If she/he abused her/him, then they should have no further contact" etc etc
We're referring though to a man who heads up an organisation with responsibility towards children's welfare in Wales effectively saying he could envisage himself having abused his children, (so a definite statement by saying "could").

The main point though is whether as a society, our children being encouraged to appreciate their parents might lead to more harmony, (and be better both for their parents, and the children they've loved into the bargain)?
 
I've lived in other countries, and have known lots of immigrants because of my jobs. Many people from other cultures more or less revere their parents. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. There are downsides.
You do have to take your hat off a little when you see just how content, and well behaved so many of their children can be, both around their parents, and elsewhere, compared to our own sometimes! :)
 
It is part of civilizing children to teach them courtesy. Simple things like, Thank you and please and you're welcome is part of being civil.
Failure to teach basic courtesy breeds little savages.
 
If an internet search has merit from parts of the worl, here are some searches
https://childandfamilyblog.com/east-west-parenting/
Another site here:
https://www.moms.com/parenting-western-vs-eastern/

And this one:
https://www.marham.pk/healthblog/eastern-vs-western-parenting-style/

Quote:
"Eastern vs Western: Which Parenting Style is Better? Best parenting style refers to the way you raise your child. Everything that you decide for your child, from their clothing to which school they join, comes under the umbrella of parenting. Parenting is no easy task because it affects every aspect of your child’s personality, including beliefs, thought processes, strengths and weaknesses, and self-confidence.
Parenting styles differ according to your geographical location because every country has different religious and cultural norms. We can classify parenting techniques into two main categories according to regions as Eastern and Western."

"Eastern parents instill morality, cultural values, and most importantly emotional support in their children at various stages of life. Standard practices of the eastern households include:

  • Protective nature: Eastern parents shield their children from problems and difficult situations and strive to provide them with an ideal environment.
  • Authoritative: Eastern parents make most decisions for their children and choose what is best for them.
  • High Academic Expectations: They are willing to invest more time and money in their children’s education and pay for extra tuition classes to tutor their children. They are eager to make any sacrifice to send their kid to a good college and achieve good grades. And, in most cases, children do well in school.
  • Joint family system: Children in Eastern parenting styles are given everything they need and are expected to repay by caring for them in old age. Children usually live with their parents after graduation and even after marriage in Pakistan and India."
The second website, linked to an article by an author called Larissa Marulli is worth a look too! :)
 
Graham, I loved the video but it is not a reflection of our true life today.
My husband and I married in 1979. We built our life together, we both worked. We both put money aside for our first home. Our son was born and I was the person in charge of taking care of him. I paid the bills, I was in charge of the finances I kept the house, the cooking, the cleaning, the yard work. I made sure the homework was done, took the son to all activities, made sure the medical and dental need were done. I hate to say it but I can't remember my husband ever even taking my son for a haircut much less a trip to the public pool with his friends.

Do not get me wrong about it, my husband worked many hours, we never went without or had to worry about money, The only thing I regret is my husband missed out on so many things in his son's life, he thought his job, the money was more important. It was not. We can't change those things, we can't go back and create new memories. It was and is the facts we have
to deal with.

I am proud I was able to send my son to college. Even though his Dad passed away he made sure we had enough to do that and there would be no need to take out a loan. He made sure that the mortgage was paid off and I did not have to worry about a home for our me and our son. l have seen many a person in your situation and can't even imagine the heartbreak you feel. I will just say, I know it is hard, I know you don't want this in your life but it is what it is. You deserve more, I hope that someday your daughter will see the light of day and your love!

I know I said I would not comment but on this I can't stay silent, so I send you a hug and best wishes!
 
Some more research here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...lbeingandwhatmakesahappylifeuk2020/2020-10-02

Children’s views on well-being and what makes a happy life, UK: 2020

A qualitative analysis of children’s perspectives on their well-being and what makes a happy life for a child using UK wide focus groups

Quote:
"Feeling loved and having positive, supportive relationships, particularly with friends and family, including having someone to talk to and rely on were consistently stated as a top priority for children to have a happy life - "[Love means] people who care about you, family and friends, because if you're upset then they'll be there for you"."
 
Some more research here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...lbeingandwhatmakesahappylifeuk2020/2020-10-02

Children’s views on well-being and what makes a happy life, UK: 2020

A qualitative analysis of children’s perspectives on their well-being and what makes a happy life for a child using UK wide focus groups

Quote:
"Feeling loved and having positive, supportive relationships, particularly with friends and family, including having someone to talk to and rely on were consistently stated as a top priority for children to have a happy life - "[Love means] people who care about you, family and friends, because if you're upset then they'll be there for you"."
The first thing that jumped out at me from the link: kids not only having adult-aged burdens, but the vocabulary that goes along with it. And I don't think that's a good thing.
'someone's having a rough time with their mental health,' 'people with anxiety,' etc.
 
I will quickly admit this is yet another attempt to start a thread relating to parents/children etc., but if you can suffer to give my latest thought the slightest bit of your attention it occurs to me what any of us might expect of our children just could be so fundamental it might change the world, (or western world at least, as I think the eastern countries of the world still hold the view I'm going to put forward).

If our own children, and children in general, be it in school or whatever it might be, (boy scout troops, or girl guides), are told there is a need for them to understand and express appreciation for those who love them, notwithstanding they'll probably appreciate this for themselves anyway, this could not only help breed more harmony in society, it could I believe, result in better outcomes for our children.

There we are, just a thought, (not every day you come up with a thought to maybe change the world :) ! ).
Gotta say I agree with you on this.
One of the biggest roadblocks, though, is the modern "pop-psych" approach that if one's parents, siblings, etc., aren't perfect, just trade them in for somebody else.
 
I used two basic things raising my child: 1. I vividly remembered my own childhood, my likes and dislikes and how I wanted to be treated; 2. I let my love for him rule.

No other 'tricks.' It's simple, really.
I was thinking that this was a far too complicated subject to tackle on here and then you swooped in and set me straight.
 
I find it interesting that I trained for 3 plus years to be proficient enough to just begin my journey in my chosen craft but not one second of training on how to raise a child. Not even diaper changing!! I’m sure it’s improved since the 90’s but…….I winged it to the best of my ability, many mistakes along the way. Thank God all of mine are thriving but there was quite a bit of luck involved.
 
I find it interesting that I trained for 3 plus years to be proficient enough to just begin my journey in my chosen craft but not one second of training on how to raise a child. Not even diaper changing!! I’m sure it’s improved since the 90’s but…….I winged it to the best of my ability, many mistakes along the way. Thank God all of mine are thriving but there was quite a bit of luck involved.

An Irish fella I met in a bar in Dublin gave me this very succinct piece of advice: "Dont worry abut being a dad, it comes naturally"!

It could just be you did the right thing all along by not being trained for the gig :) !
 
Some more research:
https://archive.nytimes.com/parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/when-parents-stop-being-stupid/

Quote:
"Mark Twain famously said:
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished by how much he’d learned in seven years.”
Now word from England is that Twain was ahead of his peers, but only by about a year.

A site that asks whimsical survey questions as a way to attract traffic for its corporate advertising clients, reported last week that the age when the average child gains new respect and appreciation for his or her parents is not 21, but 22. Of the 5,000 20-somethings who responded, 70 percent admitted they’d thought they “knew it all” in their teens, and more than half said they now “miss having their parents look after them.”

It took leaving home to bring about this insight. The newspaper quotes an explanation by a poll spokesman:

When they start having to make their own decisions about finances, food, relationships and health, this is when they realize the extent of their mum and dad’s input to date. All of a sudden mum and dad are a force to be reckoned with, they are no longer taken for granted and their advice is suddenly more valuable than anyone else’s.
The years before this realization dawns — when they are still in the “pod people” stage of adolescence (i.e., “possessed by an alien force”) — can be an endless time for parents. Two pieces of wisdom, both passed along to me by dear friends, have gotten me through.

The first is the mantra “they’re in there.” You just keep speaking to the child trapped inside the pod and have faith that he still hears.

The second is a parable, which goes something like this:

You start out, and you are raising a dog. Your dog is thrilled with everything you do, and wags his tail and licks your face and follows you around like, well, a puppy. It can be challenging, and a little messy, but oh the exuberant and unwavering love.
One day, out of nowhere, you come home and the dog has vanished. You are now raising a cat. Your cat walks out of the room when you enter, and refuses to come when called, and sniffs suspiciously at whatever you feed it. You learn to choose your battles carefully and not make any sudden moves.
Then, years later, again out of nowhere, you arrive home, and a tall creature says, “Hi Mom, can I give you a hand with those groceries?!” And once again you are raising a dog ….
Now, it’s not as if respondents to the poll survey reported going to sleep at 21 and waking up with a changed perspective at 22. For many (about 20 percent) the moment of transition was when they became parents themselves.

That was my moment (I am still waiting for my children to have theirs), and it happened during a family vacation in the mountains. My father loved mountains. A good percentage of my own childhood travel involved me and my siblings crammed in the back of a tiny rental car, driving toward something Dad thought was majestic. “Can’t you at least pretend?” he said when we didn’t ooh or ahh. “Grunt so I know you’re still back there.” And grunt we did.

My boys were 6 and 9, and complaining in the backseat of a (far larger) rental car in the Grand Tetons, when I had a sudden flash of how my father had felt. On my cell phone, with the snow capped peaks looming in the background, I called him and offered an apology that was decades overdue."
 
Gotta say I agree with you on this.
One of the biggest roadblocks, though, is the modern "pop-psych" approach that if one's parents, siblings, etc., aren't perfect, just trade them in for somebody else.
Looks like quite a few folks got there well ahead of us on this one, (I've discovered by doing a bit more research):

This website is designed for children, quote:
"Remember the time you fell ill and your mother was up all night to nurse you back to health? Or, the time when your dad left work early just to take you to your favorite sporting event?

Well, we call them parents for more than a reason. Their role doesn't end with welcoming us into this world. It continues until we grow up and stand on our feet. All this out of pure love. Such untainted love should never be one-sided. It comes a full circle only when returned. And to return the love, you definitely don't need to do big things. It only takes little bits to bring a smile to their faces."


And more of the same here:
https://www.todaysparent.com/kids/preschool/how-to-raise-an-appreciative-child/
 
I think that just appreciation in general is lacking in most humans…not just younger ones. If only there was a way to impart the importance of acknowledgement and human kindness we would all be so much better off. At this point in society perhaps the best way is to do it ourselves. For instance…say thank you , compliment, smile, exercise tolerance. Change by example
BEST WORDS!!! You get the point.
 
I will quickly admit this is yet another attempt to start a thread relating to parents/children etc., but if you can suffer to give my latest thought the slightest bit of your attention it occurs to me what any of us might expect of our children just could be so fundamental it might change the world, (or western world at least, as I think the eastern countries of the world still hold the view I'm going to put forward).

If our own children, and children in general, be it in school or whatever it might be, (boy scout troops, or girl guides), are told there is a need for them to understand and express appreciation for those who love them, notwithstanding they'll probably appreciate this for themselves anyway, this could not only help breed more harmony in society, it could I believe, result in better outcomes for our children.

There we are, just a thought, (not every day you come up with a thought to maybe change the world :) ! ).
If I ever met a child who kept saying something like, "Oh, Mother dear, I so appreciate the fact that you love me," I would think, "That's one weird kid." I think you've been reading too much Victorian literature, grahamg.

Human interactions just don't work like that. Nobody, least of all children, say, "Thank you for loving me." As opposed to what? Hating me?

Of course, if you love your child, the child will respond. But if they "express appreciation," as you put it, it sounds like coercion, abuse, fear, and contains a creepy hint of an implied threat. ("Did I remember to tell him I love him today? Maybe then he won't beat me.")

I know you mean well, but that ridiculous idea is not the road to world peace. In normal parent-child relationships, parents love their children, and the children know they are loved. They don't have to keep thanking you for it, for heaven's sake!
 


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