Able to mentally grasp...stuff has always existed ?

David777

David777

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Can you mentally grasp the possibility that stuff has eternally existed into the past? In other words there has never been a beginning to our endless eternal 3 dimensional universe regardless if the Big Bang Universe we currently exist within began 13.8 billion years ago. IMO, it did not come into being from nothing. IMO, before that, matter/energy/stuff eternally existed within space time in some way.

It is one of two possibilities. Either 1, matter/energy/stuff was created so had a beginning or 2, matter/energy/stuff always existed so didn't need to be created. To be created brings a need for some possibly magical like power to be involved or unimaginable circumstance of physical existence. Since we sentient entities, are witness to matter/energy/stuff existing at this moment, the easier, more likely logical conclusion is that, 2 is vastly more likely to be true.

mr dave >>> It always existed.

Or is your brain rebelling with an inner feeling of the impossible at the notion something has existed forever?

Physicist Alan Guth, the father of cosmic inflation theory, describes emerging ideas about where our universe comes from, what else is out there, and what caused it to exist in the first place.

The Founder of Cosmic Inflation Theory on Cosmology's Next Big Ideas
 

Big Bang has always had problems fitting facts and as more are confirmed or disproven it's ground gets shakier. Then "epicycles" are concocted like undetectable dark matter, which itself is in trouble as its parameters are failing in light of new astronomical observations. These band-aids on a dubious theory are wearing thin.

Things like Steady State with Continuous Creation were discarded as orthodoxy but have begun to make a comeback when paired with Collapsing Matter. That addresses the perceived Doppler "red shift" as well as fitting the observations catalog far better than Big Bang. When your "rulers" shrink with time, arriving EMF wavefronts naturally appear red-shifted in proportion to the distance from the emission source.
 
First cause and all that is over our heads right now. IF the Big Bang, THEN time began for our universe at that moment. The universe is what we have to ponder, and we should form our questions carefully. Is the universe eternal?
It may
1. never stop expanding (but it will surely slow down): dead! or
2. eventually stop expanding (whether because of a boundary or because it runs out of steam): dead! or
3. depending on the amount of dark matter, it may collapse back to another point of extremely high density and temperature and to another Big Bang, and a new universe: dead!
My pathetic understanding is that, in any of the above scenarios, our universe is not eternal (although something outside it may be).
 

At our present stage of understanding we can not possibly conceive of how/why/when of this "existence". As soon as a human concept arises about the ontological "beginning", it has already missed the mark. The view by itself, is a primitive way of understanding. The true nature of our universe is beyond anything we can conceive or try to "prove". It lies somewhere in a holistic expression of infinite complexity which is self emergent. Just a guess...:)
 
Eternally is what the Lord means when he says, "let there be light."
Does there have to be an obvious answer to the question many want answered.
Maybe thinking of the right to jump Galaxies / Universes/ Solar systems may be just arrogance of our parts.
He gives us the free choicer to screw stuff up, so we do. Mostly always and everything.
 
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Before the beginning the Lord said, "SA-Tann" you are too beautiful a Chick to be destroyed. Yet you fool around behind my back with other Angels. So, I banish you to Hell!" Their offspring is sent to Mary to deliver was the Command the Lord gave. Since then, there has been a War between Heaven and Hell! Some Eternal soul ponders the continuous ongoing Wars between good and evil, Heaven & Hell.

"In all wars there are Casualties'!" "What happens to all those eternal Souls who will surely be perished in this one?" "Are there other Places for good souls to hang out?" The part I don't get are the Eternal Wars going on. Why?
 
David777 said:
Can you mentally grasp the possibility that stuff has eternally existed into the past? In other words there has never been a beginning to our endless eternal 3 dimensional universe regardless if the Big Bang Universe we currently exist within began 13.8 billion years ago. IMO, it did not come into being from nothing. IMO, before that, matter/energy/stuff eternally existed within space time in some way.

It is one of two possibilities. Either 1, matter/energy/stuff was created so had a beginning or 2, matter/energy/stuff always existed so didn't need to be created. To be created brings a need for some possibly magical like power to be involved or unimaginable circumstance of physical existence. Since we sentient entities, are witness to matter/energy/stuff existing at this moment, the easier, more likely logical conclusion is that, 2 is vastly more likely to be true.

mr dave >>> It always existed.

Or is your brain rebelling with an inner feeling of the impossible at the notion something has existed forever?

Physicist Alan Guth, the father of cosmic inflation theory, describes emerging ideas about where our universe comes from, what else is out there, and what caused it to exist in the first place.

The Founder of Cosmic Inflation Theory on Cosmology's Next Big Ideas
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I believe our universe is eternal , no beginning or no end but I also believe we have a creator and if everything is already created for us, it would leave having a creator pointless.

To be honest, itā€™s WAY over my head but Iā€™ve noticed that your questions and answers mostly are for me.
 
Having had way too much Buddhist training makes these "big" questions/answers very easy for me to be "content" with. Part of meditation allows one to stop meaning making. We humans are very attached to meaning making. It is very hard to imagine our world without making meaning about it. In meditation one reaches a place in the mind where thoughts cease to exist and yet all one's senses are very aware of all that is happening around. Meaning making is a function of the mind that we all take for granted.

When unanswerable questions/problems arise it is possible to treat the issue in a way that has no debate. The Buddha raised a finger when asked if God exists. He wasn't dismissing the question. He was telling us to listen with all our senses, intently. Unfortunately this makes me a pretty boring conversationalist. :)
 
Paco Dennis said:
Having had way too much Buddhist training makes these "big" questions/answers very easy for me to be "content" with. Part of meditation allows one to stop meaning making. We humans are very attached to meaning making. It is very hard to imagine our world without making meaning about it. In meditation one reaches a place in the mind where thoughts cease to exist and yet all one's senses are very aware of all that is happening around. Meaning making is a function of the mind that we all take for granted.

When unanswerable questions/problems arise it is possible to treat the issue in a way that has no debate. The Buddha raised a finger when asked if God exists. He wasn't dismissing the question. He was telling us to listen with all our senses, intently. Unfortunately this makes me a pretty boring conversationalist. :)
Click to expand...
Well I personally like how you think. I try not to think too much but have an inquisitive mind. Meditating and challenging my mind to stop thinking is such a challenge but a very rewarding one. You are far from boring.
 

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