Actor/Director Rob Reiner found dead in home, apparent 'homicide'

Where parents really mess up with adult children addict is enabling them. If the parent really really wants change tuff love/no money, favors is a tool that must be used just to get the addict on the straight and narrow.
I agree. A family member of mine had a son who fell in with the wrong crowd and developed substance use issues. At one point, he was living on the streets, and she had to lock him out of the family house. It sounds incredibly difficult. I'm not sure I could have done that, although I think it was the right thing to do, and I agree that tough love is often the only way to get an addict to straighten out.

(That particular story had a happy ending: This young man got clean and turned his life completely around.)
 
Where parents really mess up with adult children addict is enabling them. If the parent really really wants change tuff love/no money, favors is a tool that must be used just to get the addict on the straight and narrow. But must know when to use a tool

I think sometime people expect or think rehab will sober up a person AND address related issues. Maybe. But shouldn't the goal of rehab be sober the person up number one priority. Yes maybe an introduction to past or existing side issues but sobriety should be THE goal. Judging by the number of trips of rehab either Reiner had false expectations as to what rehab would do or Nick was playing them just to get back in their good graces for favors-probably both
Nick only needed to tell his father "Those people at rehab don't know what they're doing," and Rob would believe him. That's been reported. Plus, Rob no doubt believed that he (himself) knew more about everything than they did. Because that was always the case with his film-making.
 
I think sometime people expect or think rehab will sober up a person AND address related issues. Maybe. But shouldn't the goal of rehab be sober the person up number one priority. Yes maybe an introduction to past or existing side issues but sobriety should be THE goal. Judging by the number of trips of rehab either Reiner had false expectations as to what rehab would do or Nick was playing them just to get back in their good graces for favors-probably both
Rehabs often do address side issues, because most are highly controlled versions of AA, which emphasizes a closer relationship with one's higher power. I think many in AA would say sobriety is the main goal, but many put as much or more emphasis on spirituality, with sobriety as an expected outcome.

There are other side issues besides spirituality, things like psychological and emotional disorders. And some programs of recovery emphasize quitting alcohol above all else, which then opens the way to deal in a clear headed way with these other life issues, including spirituality, if that's your issue. I would be in that camp. I cannot imagine much in the way of achieving personal growth or getting closer to God while you're drunk.

No matter what approach rehab uses, it often fails because (I'm speculating here) many addicts see withdrawal as the end game, don't take the next steps to improve their lives, and just return to chemical substances. But addiction and psychology are very complicated issues, or at least can be. It's almost impossible to simplify how the whole thing should work.
 
Rehabs often do address side issues, because most are highly controlled versions of AA, which emphasizes a closer relationship with one's higher power. I think many in AA would say sobriety is the main goal, but many put as much or more emphasis on spirituality, with sobriety as an expected outcome.

There are other side issues besides spirituality, things like psychological and emotional disorders. And some programs of recovery emphasize quitting alcohol above all else, which then opens the way to deal in a clear headed way with these other life issues, including spirituality, if that's your issue. I would be in that camp. I cannot imagine much in the way of achieving personal growth or getting closer to God while you're drunk.

No matter what approach rehab uses, it often fails because (I'm speculating here) many addicts see withdrawal as the end game, don't take the next steps to improve their lives, and just return to chemical substances. But addiction and psychology are very complicated issues, or at least can be. It's almost impossible to simplify how the whole thing should work.
If I remember correctly, Rob paid something like $70K to get Nick into the last in-patient rehab facility they tried. That's very expensive. Along with a beautiful setting, private rooms, and additional services like meals, laundry, & activities, for $70K one would surely expect a very comprehensive treatment program that included individualized mental health assessment and ongoing counseling. And the patient's spiritual beliefs are usually explored during their initial assessment, because it can be an effective tool.

Street addicts don't get any of that. There are no in-patient services for them. They get one initial assessment and a refillable Rx for a mimic drug so they don't experience withdrawal and don't have to buy questionable substances from street dealers. Those are the so-called rehab treatments that fail. The official success rate is something like 30%, but in reality, I'd wager it isn't even 3%. Those rehab programs are essentially drug dispensaries that our tax dollars pay for.

For around $30K, upper middle-class and well-insured addicts can enter in-patient rehab facilities that include ongoing mental health counseling, but with a psychologist, not a psychiatrist, though many of those facilities have a staff psychiatrist who does the initial assessment. But that's a fail, imo, because you're right; addiction and psychology are complex. Addicts should get full psychiatric sessions, at least 1 hour twice a week with a licensed psychiatrist, and a comprehensive re-evaluation every 4 to 6 weeks by a different psychiatrist.

Some of those places use psychologists, and even worse, a lot of them use former drug addicts with no license of any kind to do the counseling. For upwards from $30K, that's a rip-off. And data says the recidivism rate for those places is 75%-80%! And they blame the addict, which is bullsh!t.

Plus, almost all of those facilities get tax subsidies, so we're ALL getting ripped off.
 
Nick only needed to tell his father "Those people at rehab don't know what they're doing," and Rob would believe him. That's been reported. Plus, Rob no doubt believed that he (himself) knew more about everything than they did. Because that was always the

Most of the time, rehab fails.
Always heard unless the addict wants to sober up and/or change they won't. Throw in a business model with the rehab industry many will slip through the cracks and/or they will fail at their tasks even though many addicts want change.

Just saw/heard something over the last year that some addicts it's best for inpatient rehab but as Mummur noted that's expensive. Many say AA or NA works but that's because the addicts really want change. The accept and work the programs.

I think the Reiner kid viewed rehabs as a timeout and/or a time buyer ie please don't disown me yet. Also saw where he was introduced to or given other drugs by others in those programs/facilities. Some parents refuse to believe 'their' kid can be really messed or a hardcore addicts. I've known parents who enabled their adult kids for years thinking their adult child was in a phase which hardcore addiction is not.
 
If I remember correctly, Rob paid something like $70K to get Nick into the last in-patient rehab facility they tried. That's very expensive. Along with a beautiful setting, private rooms, and additional services like meals, laundry, & activities, for $70K one would surely expect a very comprehensive treatment program that included individualized mental health assessment and ongoing counseling.
I read Mathew Perry's autobiography, who may hold a record for stays in rehab facilities. I have no idea what the actual record is, but he did the most I've heard about. On one occasion he chartered a private Jet to take him to a facility in Switzerland that charged something well over $200,000 a stay, and that didn't include transportation.

They even supplied him with drugs, and not just the ones to abate withdrawal symptoms. Just the ones he needed to get high. So price doesn't determine efficacy. Perry's autobiography ended on a happy note, with him finally achieving sobriety and the gratitude that comes with freedom from addiction. Of course in lived on, but died a short time after from an overdose during one of his binges that happened after he published.

This is a anecdotal story, and doesn't mean much by itself, but It does point out the importance of commitment, a quality not always associated with wealth. The wealthier may have a very slight edge, because some people that go to rehab do come out and remain substance free for 5 years, after which no records are usually kept. Of all the necessary qualities that go into successful rehabilitation, I would list financial resources near the bottom of the list.

Recovery is a very personal thing that comes from inside the addict. I put serious commitment at the top of the requirements for success. For me, it's a short list of requirements, and before this, I never even included money as a necessary requirement for recovery. There are free resources out there that are readily available for anyone who has the will. AA is available in almost any place you live. It's not my thing personally, but it has a success rate about as good as any other. I've been to those meetings, and have met a lot of low income people who stay sober. Of course there are successes and failures there too.
 
Lots of blaming the victims in recent posts here.

Me? I give the parents the benefit of the doubt, if only because of the happy results with their two other children, plus Reiner's adopted daughter (with whom he reportedly remained close) from his earlier marriage to Penny Marshall.

Having never raised a child with serious drug or mental health issues, it's hard to imagine the difficulty of that path. Even so, I'm pretty sure if they believed he was capable of murder—toward them or anyone else— they most certainly would have had him committed.

Hindsight is 20/20.

In any event, I'd guess Nick will be committed to a lockdown mental institution for the rest of his life, and will likely be heavily drugged throughout.
 
I read Mathew Perry's autobiography, who may hold a record for stays in rehab facilities. I have no idea what the actual record is, but he did the most I've heard about. On one occasion he chartered a private Jet to take him to a facility in Switzerland that charged something well over $200,000 a stay, and that didn't include transportation.

They even supplied him with drugs, and not just the ones to abate withdrawal symptoms. Just the ones he needed to get high. So price doesn't determine efficacy. Perry's autobiography ended on a happy note, with him finally achieving sobriety and the gratitude that comes with freedom from addiction. Of course in lived on, but died a short time after from an overdose during one of his binges that happened after he published.

This is a anecdotal story, and doesn't mean much by itself, but It does point out the importance of commitment, a quality not always associated with wealth. The wealthier may have a very slight edge, because some people that go to rehab do come out and remain substance free for 5 years, after which no records are usually kept. Of all the necessary qualities that go into successful rehabilitation, I would list financial resources near the bottom of the list.

Recovery is a very personal thing that comes from inside the addict. I put serious commitment at the top of the requirements for success. For me, it's a short list of requirements, and before this, I never even included money as a necessary requirement for recovery. There are free resources out there that are readily available for anyone who has the will. AA is available in almost any place you live. It's not my thing personally, but it has a success rate about as good as any other. I've been to those meetings, and have met a lot of low income people who stay sober. Of course there are successes and failures there too.
I have an anecdotal story, too, and maybe it illustrates why today's rehab programs have such high recidivism rates.

In 1965, my paternal uncle admitted himself into an in-patient rehab facility for his severe alcoholism. His father, my grampa, paid $8,000 up-front to get him in, saying "If you fall off the wagon, you have to pay me back. Stay sober, and you don't owe me anything."

Anyway, the treatment back then was brutal, but it was very effective. Depending on their preference, an aid escorted the patients to either a cocktail lounge or a tavern, both located right there at the facility, and allowed them to drink as much as usual. They were then walked back to their room and injected with an antabuse that made them piss, sweat, and vomit the alcohol out of their systems all freaking night. Next day, they got to go get drunk again, got the shot of antabuse again, and suffered all night ...again.

When patients got to a point where they were vomiting and sweating just from hearing the keys to the bar jingling, or seeing the aid who carried them walk into their room, they entered the counseling phase of treatment. They got 2 private sessions a week with a psychiatrist who had a PhD, and 5 group sessions a week headed by a licensed councilor who specialized in addiction therapy. Weekends were for relaxation and what they called game-therapy.

My uncle played a sort of guessing game where he and a therapist used a game board that looked like the floor-plan of a house, and little figures representing himself, his wife, and their kids, and he had to answer questions like "How did you respond?" and "How did your wife respond?" by moving the figures around the board. For example, his wife dumped his whiskey down the kitchen sink, he slapped her around in the dining room, kids ran to the playroom, wife ran to the bedroom, he went to the garage and tore shit up....etc.

Six weeks later, he was sober for life. For a while, he felt ill every time he drove past a bar, he'd cry every time he got near the kitchen sink, and he and a friend remodeled his garage. Some of that was guilt, and he moved passed it after a few weeks, thanks to rehab-maintenance sessions with his psychiatrist. (the $8,000 included a six week post-discharge maintenance program)

Sober, my uncle became the best dad a kid could want, a devoted husband, a reliable worker, and a great friend.

But the treatments that got him there are considered abuse now. And, of course, having cocktail lounges and taverns at a rehab facility is totally illegal....tho' I see no difference between that and doling out free methadone and antidepressants to treat drug addicts.

I've never looked into it, but I bet a gazillion nuthins that the old rehab methods worked way, way better than what's done now. (and no one died)
 
Lots of blaming the victims in recent posts here.

Me? I give the parents the benefit of the doubt, if only because of the happy results with their two other children, plus Reiner's adopted daughter (with whom he reportedly remained close) from his earlier marriage to Penny Marshall.

Having never raised a child with serious drug or mental health issues, it's hard to imagine the difficulty of that path. Even so, I'm pretty sure if they believed he was capable of murder—toward them or anyone else— they most certainly would have had him committed.

Hindsight is 20/20.

In any event, I'd guess Nick will be committed to a lockdown mental institution for the rest of his life, and will likely be heavily drugged throughout.
Yes and no. Alot of little things to consider.

Not only the number of trips to rehab and time on doctors but after seeing recent news with other celebrities like Matthew Perry one would figure Reiner might have started rethinking his approach or views on rehab with his son.

In the end their son chose to kill them in an extremely personal manner. No matter all potential missed opportunities and time to go in a different direction their son chose the path that led to him murdering his parents

Personally I think the battle was lost when Nick was a teen. The killing of his parents would take the resentment of an angry teenager in a rebel phase. They say addicts stall maturing at the age they start their addiction. But again even teenagers chose or decide things on their own albeit poor uninformed decisions
 
Not only the number of trips to rehab and time on doctors but after seeing recent news with other celebrities like Matthew Perry one would figure Reiner might have started rethinking his approach or views on rehab with his son.
Matthew Perry killed nobody but himself. I'm not sure if I were an addict's parent that I would imagine my kid going on a murderous rampage based on Perry drowning from being stoned out on kentamine.
 
Matthew Perry killed nobody but himself. I'm not sure if I were an addict's parent that I would imagine my kid going on a murderous rampage based on Perry drowning from being stoned out on kentamine.
With Perry it''s as much about the number times/money he spent on rehab. By his own admission he spent millions on rehabs, doctors etc and look where he ended up. The bill is probably similar with Nick Reiner. So if Rob Reiner is seeing that maybe it would be time to completely sever ties with Nick the next time he started drugging again especially fresh out of a rehab and let him do homeless again for a while.

Homeless isn't good but ex celebrities seem to be able to survive including the ex Baywatch girl and the guy that was Nickoloden or something. Maybe another taste of homeless as a older person might have made him think twice or he could've settled into a groove like the others and survived.
 
https://tubitv.com/movies/100052378/tmz-investigates-the-reiner-murders-what-really-happened

I just watched the 45 minute TMZ documentary above about this on Tubi. It confirms what I've always suspected about this. The murders were not caused by Nick's drug addiction but by his severe mental illness.

Nick's 18 tries with rehab didn't work because it was impossible to deal with the addictions while his mind was in chaos and separated from reality. If the people running the rehabs had been honest with the Reiners, they would have been told that he first had to be hospitalized, for a long time, until his mental illness was under control.

That was finally happening and Nick was doing well on a good medication for his schizoaffective disorder, but a month before the murders, when Nick complained about his weight gain, his doctor switched him to a different type of medication. One known to cause extremely violent psychosis in some patients.

The weight gain thing sounds minor, but some of these meds for mental illness cause an average of 60 pounds extra weight just in the first year. That's a drastic change for a young person. Some of them simply have to face the fact that they have to chose sanity over their appearance.

I expect the trial will come down to whether or not the jury blames Nick or his psychiatrist for the Reiner's death.
 
https://tubitv.com/movies/100052378/tmz-investigates-the-reiner-murders-what-really-happened

I just watched the 45 minute TMZ documentary above about this on Tubi. It confirms what I've always suspected about this. The murders were not caused by Nick's drug addiction but by his severe mental illness.

Nick's 18 tries with rehab didn't work because it was impossible to deal with the addictions while his mind was in chaos and separated from reality. If the people running the rehabs had been honest with the Reiners, they would have been told that he first had to be hospitalized, for a long time, until his mental illness was under control.

That was finally happening and Nick was doing well on a good medication for his schizoaffective disorder, but a month before the murders, when Nick complained about his weight gain, his doctor switched him to a different type of medication. One known to cause extremely violent psychosis in some patients.

The weight gain thing sounds minor, but some of these meds for mental illness cause an average of 60 pounds extra weight just in the first year. That's a drastic change for a young person. Some of them simply have to face the fact that they have to chose sanity over their appearance.

I expect the trial will come down to whether or not the jury blames Nick or his psychiatrist for the Reiner's death.
But the addiction didn't help. It helped amplify existing emotions with things like resentment towards his parents which showed up in the up close and personal nature of the killings. Between the drugs and condition his emotions got the best of him.

I thought those disorders showed up by the mid twenties at the latest. He was 32.

Don't know how much those findings will come out because he'll eventually be steered into a plea deal. The Reiner family would have a massive suit against those country club rehabs if they find out staff thought there were probably psychiatric conditions and they didn't recommend or refer him as you noted.

Sidenote but unless one is assessed or diagnosed by a specialist staff recommendations might not carry weight. I know someone who got out of rehab after a DUI because the mandated program staff were not medical or rehab professionals and their assessment was not from a professional. They fought it(even though they needed it-denial) and won. They went into legal mode, demanded to see supervisors etc and got out of rehab.
 
but unless one is assessed or diagnosed by a specialist staff recommendations might not carry weight. I know someone who got out of rehab after a DUI because the mandated program staff were not medical or rehab professionals and their assessment was not from a professional. They fought it(even though they needed it-denial) and won. They went into legal mode, demanded to see supervisors etc and got out of rehab.
Alcoholics in recovery have an understanding from an inside perspective that family and peers can't offer. The most damaging advice often comes from well meaning non alcoholic peers with suggestions like, "Just stop after two drinks, and you'll be OK."

But the downside of advice from alcoholics in recovery is that that they may carry personal bias, misinformation, and no training in counseling. Being sober is one thing, but it's not the same thing as having a professional knowledge base. In a program that charges thousands of dollars for 28 days of rehab, there needs to be professionals involved too. Of course, that cuts into profits.
 
Alcoholics in recovery have an understanding from an inside perspective that family and peers can't offer. The most damaging advice often comes from well meaning non alcoholic peers with suggestions like, "Just stop after two drinks, and you'll be OK."

But the downside of advice from alcoholics in recovery is that that they may carry personal bias, misinformation, and no training in counseling. Being sober is one thing, but it's not the same thing as having a professional knowledge base. In a program that charges thousands of dollars for 28 days of rehab, there needs to be professionals involved too. Of course, that cuts into profits.
I think that's an excellent take. I've noticed a trend in rehabilitation to take an approach that involves both trained professionals and those with what is called "lived experience." I'd like to think that will be a helpful direction.
 

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