Actor/Director Rob Reiner found dead in home, apparent 'homicide'

[StarSong]

I'm afraid that your impression of the 12 Step programs --most especially AA-- is quite lacking. Perhaps your misunderstandings are based on a few folks who have not been ready or able to practice the program. That is common enough. But of the people who are serious about getting clean or sober, the success rate is phenomenal. As AA co-founder Bill W. stated, "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path."

Yeah, I get it. But nearly all in AA have taken many whacks at that pinata before finding lifelong success, thus the 8% figure.

A few years ago I walked a dear friend through rehab. As is my habit, I researched AA and various rehabs up one side and down the other so my knowledge is far from lacking. I personally know alcoholics who found eventual success with AA and others who found success without ever going to AA.

The unstated but obvious first step for AA is "Stop drinking." Not all stick with that for the rest of their lives after starting the program.

I started smoking when I was 17 and tried to stop many, many times. My overall success rate at quitting was less than 8%, believe me. Much less than 1%, in fact. However, I eventually quit for good at age 30, so the last go-round was 100% successful. Within a year I stopped thinking about cigarettes altogether.

It all depends on how one looks at percentages and statistics. To me, a 100% successful program is defined by no relapses or recidivism. AA can't make that claim - not by a long shot.

 

[JustDave]

It all depends on how one looks at percentages and statistics.

Also methodology of the research, and criteria used to measure success. I just looked around the internet this morning trying to find current statistics and was given pages of rehab facilities and recovery programs, all claiming astounding recovery rates, but no descriptions of how the research was done. Only one gave the criteria used to measure success, and it included, get this, heavy drinkers that now drink only occasionally. The information struck me about as reliable as ads for weight loss programs.

One link did not represent any particular program or facility, but did compare data on four different types of recovery; 1)rehab facilities in general, 2)support groups (which would include AA), 3)Do it your-selfers and 4)Cognitive Behavior Therapy. All reported much higher statistics than I have ever heard before. The highest, although not significantly higher, was #4 Cognitive Behavior Therapy.

 

[WhatInThe]

As noted it's how bad one wants it just like fitness or controlling weight. All sorts of diets and workouts out there but it comes down to how bad one wants it. Probably winds up being a combination of things including the timing of events and the consequences suffered ie a bottom.

I've always heard ignoring negative consequences is sign of addiction but if the addict won't or can't take it anymore that bottom maybe the one that motivates sobriety. This is one of the reasons for no enabling or partaking in so called harm reduction. Some think enabling and harm reduction simply may delay the inevitable. They say get out of the addicts way and let them hit a bottom-hard.

Im reading about some of the stuff Nick Reiner was getting including an allowance and being allowed to stay in the guest house. Again he needed to earn every privilege or dollar after a certain point.. And that includes being a compliant patient for any medical issues and participating in programS.

 

[JustDave]

As noted it's how bad one wants it.

That was it for me. If you are committed, you will do it. Some will say, "Well I was committed, and I wanted it, but I can't stop." The thing is that commitment and desire come in degrees. They are motivated by things like bottoms, or in my case, a frightening and accelerating downward spiral, with no bottom in sight.