American Airman Denied Re-enlistment

"so help me God" doesnt mean a damn thing anymore.
Just cross your fingers and get it over with or get the hell out and take your lawyer with you.
 
"Do you swear to tell the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"
2/3 of the people that swear that,lie their asses off. We all know that so it doesn't mean a damn thing today.
 
It is wrong to cross out any part of any oath.
Take it as is or not at all.
You want me to trust you to cover my back take the same oath.
Personally I have no trouble with "So help me God".
I can give an oath with or without "So help me God" tacked on the end of it.
I do everything in my power to keep my word.
I just happen to be one of those "gulliable fools" that depends on strength from God to accomplish the task.
 
It is wrong to cross out any part of any oath.
Take it as is or not at all.
You want me to trust you to cover my back take the same oath.
Personally I have no trouble with "So help me God".
I can give an oath with or without "So help me God" tacked on the end of it.
I do everything in my power to keep my word.
I just happen to be one of those "gulliable fools" that depends on strength from God to accomplish the task.

Why is it wrong to cross out any part of any oath Sid? You really wouldn't trust me if I didn't take the same oath as you?
 
It depends on how badly you want to stay in. After all, they're just words, so don't cross out those words.

He sounds like a 6 year old trying to have it his way.
 
He just doesn't believe in God and should not be compelled to take the oath with the final "So help me God" You were a USAF pilot weren't you Falcon? if so, I'm sure that you took a few oaths.
 
"So help me God" is just an anachronism from a past age. In reality, I don't think it means anything at all to believers or non believers. It's just pretty words.

If the phrase was "as God is my witness" it would be a stronger oath for believers because it would remind them that they should consider the oath the make to be a binding commitment, but who imagines that anyone is taking the oath lightly.

If it starts with "I do solemnly swear..." then that is all that is needed for everybody. No reference to God required.
 
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I certainly respect everyone's views on this issue. Being old and grumpy... I, of course, have my own opinion.

The young man took the oath, as written, when he first enlisted. Now, as he wants to re-enlist, he expects the words of the oath to be changed to fit his religious view. The oath he was sworn to was okay with him up until time to re-enlist. If he did have monumental changes in religion, why didn't he bring this up as that idealogy changed?

Service in our military is volunteer. No one is required to serve. When you volunteer, there may well be any number of things you need to do to keep your brothers in arms and yourself alive. If you aren't ready to make certain sacrifices to do so, you need to find another occupation. The young man has the freedom and liberty to worship... or not worship... however he deems proper. You have benefitted from the experience and training gained through your first enlistment. Take that and find employment outside the military and excel. Don't ask the oath sworn to by hundreds of thousands of others, who take the oath seriously as part of their commitment to duty, be changed to fit your religous ideals.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

When does someone say thy do not agree with the 10th Amendment so want the phrase "defend the Constitution" stricken from their oath? When does someone say they have close ties with a specific foreign nation and want "all enemies, foreign and domestic" stricken. If we allow one to manipulate the oath to their own idealogy, where do we draw the line? Take the oath, as is, or go find work elsewhere.
 
If you want to re-up you repeat what's said to you. The military is downsizing and don't mind rejecting nonconformist. Yes, it's justified.
 
He just doesn't believe in God and should not be compelled to take the oath with the final "So help me God" You were a USAF pilot weren't you Falcon? if so, I'm sure that you took a few oaths.

Of course, I took many and said whatever it took to get in/STAY in ! Like I said before, they're only words.

I'm not going to flaunt my philosophy by arguing what they think I'm supposed to do.

We all wanted to get through training and get our wings........and we TRUSTED eachother to watch our six.

I'm not a "Goody-two-shoes" who NEVER lies. I can lie like a rug if I have to, to prevent embarrassing someone
or to get out of a sticky situation (Like: "Honey, Does my butt look too fat in these pants?") but, if you are a TRUE
(proven) friend, I will NEVER lie to you !
 
One thing I did not see was any discussion about WHAT or WHO is God. I think that would change for all of us as too what our thinking actually is.

God describes a leader, and important being, a spiritual leader, but I don't see any flags on any of these types of leaders for us. This God could be a Christian or someone from another religion or belief as I see it. So there is really no problem in believing no matter what you might believe. I believe that God means some one beyond our ability to reach and touch but some one also very wise, compassionate, calming, strengthening, etc., etc., for what ever reason you believe. No justification not to use the word God in your claims of loyalty, honesty, or whatever.
 
If you don't believe in the existence of the flipping deity, you shouldn't be expected to say those words. The chap was brave to stand against that stupid nonsense, I admire him.
 


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