Knight
Well-known Member
That sounds good until murdering all humans except Noah & his family is thought about. Then there is the death of all the other life forms except those on the arc. As plans go that sounds pretty horrible to me.
Are there ANGELS?
- Thread starter Vedaarya
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What if death in the physical sense was actually a "healing"...to all.
Catlady
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If God was not a quitter, why punish everyone but Noah and his family? He could have asked ''saintly'' Noah to help the others become more saintly instead of wiping them out. And since the others were being punished for having ''sensual desires'', didn't Noah and his family also have sensual desires since they did ''procreate"? And the world has ALWAYS been corrupt and filled with violence, that wipeout has not solved anything. And why punish all the animals not on Noah's ark because of man's "immoral excesses"?
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Noah was a righteous man and walked with God. Seeing that the earth was corrupt and filled with violence, God instructed Noah to build an ark in which he, his sons, and their wives, together with male and female of all living creatures, would be saved from the waters. Noah entered the ark in his six hundredth year, and on the 17th day of the second month of that year "the fountains of the Great Deep burst apart and the floodgates of heaven broke open" and rain fell for forty days and forty nights until the highest mountains were covered 15 cubits, and all earth-based life perished except Noah and those with him in the ark.
In Jewish legend, the kind of water that was pouring to the earth for forty days is not the common, but God bade each drop pass through Hell of Gehenna before it fell to earth, and the 'hot rain' scalded the skin of the sinners. The punishment that overtook them was befitting their crime. As their sensual desires had made them hot, and inflamed them to immoral excesses, so they were chastised by means of heated water.[18]
1896 illustration of the symbol of the rainbow, which God created as a sign of the covenant
After 150 days, "God remembered Noah ... and the waters subsided" until the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat. On the 27th day of the second month of Noah's six hundred and first year the earth was dry. Then Noah built an altar and made a sacrifice, and God made a covenant with Noah that man would be allowed to eat every living thing but not its blood, and that God would never again destroy all life by a flood.
Lara
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Knight...I agree that all the violence in the Old Testament makes me uncomfortable too. It definitely was horrible. I don't spend as much time in the OT as I do in the NT for that reason, but that's not to say I don't believe it. I do. And this is the best reasoning I can come up with...
1. man had turned their backs on God except Noah and obedience, honor, respect, following God is a big deal to God
2. God's whole purpose of creating man was for man to love Him and to fellowship with Him
3. God tried to get their attention but man chose to continue to sin
4. God doesn't look at death as bad. Suffering is another thing. There are more reasons for suffering than we can fathom.
5. I agree with Liberty's post above
6. As I've said before we are only passing through this life in a blink and then Home for eternity.
There are more reasons...again, too many to fathom.
1. man had turned their backs on God except Noah and obedience, honor, respect, following God is a big deal to God
2. God's whole purpose of creating man was for man to love Him and to fellowship with Him
3. God tried to get their attention but man chose to continue to sin
4. God doesn't look at death as bad. Suffering is another thing. There are more reasons for suffering than we can fathom.
5. I agree with Liberty's post above
6. As I've said before we are only passing through this life in a blink and then Home for eternity.
There are more reasons...again, too many to fathom.
Knight
Well-known Member
What if's are great. What if God's plan was for mankind to invent weapons to kill innocents to heal them? As population increased could the plan include mankind getting better at inventions to increase healing. Like wars, mass shootings, daily murders. Lesser part of the healing plan biological weapons less brutal but just as effective.
Were the angels present during all those healing deaths ?
All this speculation is reminding me of my college days, about 50 years ago. A BS session. All that's missing is the booze and the weed. Good to see we haven't matured much since then.
Lara
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Correct He will never flood the earth again. I don't mean to sound as though I'm being light when I say...according to prophecy, you ain't seen nuthin' yet. And of all the prophecies that have already been filled, none have been wrong. You're seeing the world going down the tubes with all the hatred, violence, disrespect for our environment, chaos, etc....and it's going to get worse but the Book of Daniel and Revelations tells us what's going to happen eventually...and finally.
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Lara
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Olivia, that's not how God works. He loves everyone and loved us while we were still in the womb He says. How else is God going to bring His children home if they never have a physical death? Talk about overpopulation. I don't think you mean "killed". I think you mean "suffered" and I have gone over that previously.
Knight, you are forgetting about Satan who is responsible for Evil. But God could stop him is he wanted to or was answering prayer. Yes, God allows Satan to do evil sometimes.
Knight, you are forgetting about Satan who is responsible for Evil. But God could stop him is he wanted to or was answering prayer. Yes, God allows Satan to do evil sometimes.
Knight
Well-known Member
Lara how can we relate this to angels?
1. man had turned their backs on God except Noah and obedience, honor, respect, following God is a big deal to God
2. God's whole purpose of creating man was for man to love Him and to fellowship with Him
3. God tried to get their attention but man chose to continue to sin
4. God doesn't look at death as bad. Suffering is another thing. There are more reasons for suffering than we can fathom.
Maybe the angel Satan?
If so, then if killing all but Noah was the answer wouldn't killing that rogue angel be more effective? Wouldn't it be reasonable for an all powerful creator capable of doing what is described be able to cleanse his creation to return to his original concept/plan.
1. man had turned their backs on God except Noah and obedience, honor, respect, following God is a big deal to God
2. God's whole purpose of creating man was for man to love Him and to fellowship with Him
3. God tried to get their attention but man chose to continue to sin
4. God doesn't look at death as bad. Suffering is another thing. There are more reasons for suffering than we can fathom.
Maybe the angel Satan?
If so, then if killing all but Noah was the answer wouldn't killing that rogue angel be more effective? Wouldn't it be reasonable for an all powerful creator capable of doing what is described be able to cleanse his creation to return to his original concept/plan.
God only knows, and Lara does, too. It seems she knows everything for anybody else. A belief is just that, a belief. And so, see how that sounds? Like I know what everyone else believes about beliefs? So I change it to say that my belief is my own. Not a fact. That's all I've been trying to say. Presenting as undisputed facts is to me, the problem with some of the religious posts here.
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Lara
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I know very little in comparison. When I post, I post what I've read in God's Word...the Bible. If you don't like how I'm presenting God's answers then don't read my posts...it's that simple
Lara
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Satan is a FALLEN angel and the leader of the Demons of the Underworld of all Evil.
God will not kill Satan (although He could). God's plan includes good and evil because He didn't want to create Robots. He created man to be able to choose between good and evil. And to choose to turn away from temptations in order to be obedient to God, to choose to love God, and fellowship with God.
Oh, does that say that in the Bible, too? I just hope people don't think Christianity is how you present it. Fundamentalism turns a lot of people off. To me that's your version of Christianity. But nevertheless, you have a right to post that here. I just disagree with posting about religion that one's religion or version of religion is the only valid one on the planet. It is not!
Lara
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I let you have the last word again Olivia...we are two very different people.
Capt Lightning
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When people talk of man being 'created', just what to they mean? The earth came into existence approx 4.5 billion years ago, with hominoids evolving over around 6 million years to arrive at early homo sapiens around 160,000 years ago. Just a mere click of the fingers in cosmological time. Man did not just suddenly appear and research shows that modern humans are genetically inconsistent with having arisen from a single pair.
I think that if you are to read the bible, you must do so with the belief that it was written by people who did not have the same knowledge as we have today. I can understand this and it is why I feel that while the Bible is an interesting historical text, it simply should not be taken literally.
I think that if you are to read the bible, you must do so with the belief that it was written by people who did not have the same knowledge as we have today. I can understand this and it is why I feel that while the Bible is an interesting historical text, it simply should not be taken literally.
Catlady
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The Old Testament is the bible of the Jews, Muslims, and Christians. The New Testament was embellished and toned down and humanized to please the followers of Jesus. They were both written by men, not God.
I have an open mind to the possibility but am ambiguous about actual physical existence of angels but I have a question to put to this discussion. Over the past year, several extremely unusual/unlikely but very serendipitous events have happened in my life. Unplanned. unlikely, no human intervention sort of things that presented situations that called for an unusual course of action that simply seemed 'right' at the time. Angel intervention or ??????
Catlady
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I'm a Deist. To me, creation means that God created the universe, all its planets and stars and the inhabitants of those planets, and then watched them but did not interfere. It is the only thing that makes sense why there is so much violence and cruelty and he does nothing to punish the perpetrators. Since we humans cannot fathom anything without a beginning and an end, Deism also explains eternity. Only that creator knows and understands what lies beyond our human understanding of the visible universe. I also believe it's egotistical that we believe we were "made in the image of God'' (how narcissistic). There must be other life among the planets, do they all look like us (and God)? God is more than likely without form, just an energy being, everywhere and aware of everything and everyone.
As an intelligent logically thinking man I can't possibly believe in this supposedly omnipotent benevolent Hebrew deity who also condoned slavery, rape, murder, and even killed innocent babies and children...Seems like primitive people always created deities that conveniently shared all their sick twisted morals and practices.
fuzzybuddy
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About angels. As an atheist, well,............ But one thing has amazed me is if you go back in history way before the birth of man, there's no God. It is a purely natural world. Plants don't need a God. Animals don't need a God. Dirt, rocks, sky, etc.-don't need a god. There's a purely natural way the universe was formed. We have plausable evidence of that formation. Nobody can point to any physical evidence of a deity. Then later, when man arrived, there was a concept of deities, so did man create gods? I have railed against some preaching and proselytizing their Christian beliefs in this forum. But the concept of a deity, as expressed in this forum has been only a Christian one. But Christianity is not the only concept of a deity on this planet. How do you reconcile all those gods and opposing religious ideologies? They can't all be right. Which leads me back to angels. If you believe in them, then you believe in them. But your belief is no better than anyone elses, no matter how many biblical verses or theology one can spout.
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There's a difference between good luck, even extreme luck like winning mills in the lottery, and an angel experience. When you've had an angel experience you're never the same. It helped me to understand a bit about what some of the biblical characters felt after an angel encounter. It's very real and has the power to change your life.
Catlady
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Of the examples of ''angel experiences'' that I've read, like Lara's way back on this thread, the experiences are about people that have been kind to you or said something nice or happened to be around to help you in some way. Those are kind and helpful people, even people who put their life on the line to save you from disaster, like that ranger on the news yesterday who pulled this guy from a car seconds before a train hit his car. Yet, religious people call them angels. Are your angel experience about good humans trying to help? I've met many of them but never thought of them as ''angels''. I would believe them as angels if I see them disappear into air after they help me, only then.
Warrigal
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This thread does seem to have left the planet.All this speculation is reminding me of my college days, about 50 years ago. A BS session. All that's missing is the booze and the weed. Good to see we haven't matured much since then.
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