Are we too emotionally unstable for everybody to be armed?

Ruthanne said:
Who knows who are the real crazies anymore? A so called "normal" person goes off the "normal" spectrum all the time. It could be you at some point, too.

Just seek quality help right now.
Click to expand...
Most mass shooters have already sought quality help. Most were on "appropriate" medications at the time.
 

Murrmurr said:
The violence we see today is the direct result of socioeconomics, work stress, piss-poor mental health services, sub-culture, the environment, and the lack of affordable housing.

I firmly believe that processed food (food pollution) - the diet of average people in lower-middle-class and below - has a lot to do with it too.
Click to expand...
Relentless stress especially of the past two years is, I'm sure, a contributing factor to all the violence we see.
 
I am anti-gun as well. I abhor the thought of shooting innocent animals just for sport, let alone killing innocent people. Keeping a gun in the home that's locked away for safety, maybe even hard to get to if suddenly needed because of that fact, makes no sense to me. With all the mass shootings that have taken place and their escalations over the years, no meaningful gun laws have been put into place. And even if they were, criminals, thugs and crazy people will find ways to get their hands on guns via illegal, clandestine methods.

I went to the eye doctor yesterday. The young receptionists are so nice. One was trying to help a man and a little while after I heard her say that she was going to call her supervisor because he was being too aggressive and making her feel uncomfortable. She said it a couple of times. I couldn't understand his responses. But I was thinking...I hope this man doesn't pull out a gun and start shooting. I had the same feeling while at IHOP a couple of months ago when two men were tussling, one alleging the other stole money from him. Blessedly, the cops were called and came quickly. Even an ambulance came and but no shooting occurred. We shouldn't have to worry about being shot and killed while going about our daily lives, but now we do!
 

there are thousands of people that carry guns and go about life every day and no one even notices .....
just like other situations some people hear or read these things and assume it is the wild west and they will be shot going about daily errands ... that is what fear mongering does...

There are background checks and waiting periods for guns ..........it is NOT go in to store walk out with gun ...
but like everything in this country it is clunky and does not work together......and so many only hear media BS not looking at details.
Some states databases not up to minute even as backlogged as 9 months so if it is not in the federal system for checks because incident happened last week... it does not show on report ....
What is the answer for mental health when someone CAN pass one day and simply snap on another day.....
ever hear or the temporary insanity defenses ? .....
even see 2 psychologists could get 2 answers of a persons mental state.

Most mass shooters get the guns used from theft/ or using a weapon owned by another family member etc.....
Years ago there was a school shooting in my area ... kid took dads gun....
but here is the kicker he was passed because he marked no issues on background form
CLERK did not run it through the law enforcement database as guy had a protection order on him from his ex- wife.......

Look at the strongest gun control law areas ....Chicago ring a bell ..... but of course there is NEVER a shooting there 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Laws are only a speed bump for some .... look how laws solved the drug problems / drinking while driving issues.... murder and so on...
I never understood those who scream for more laws all the time... using false adjectives like Common sense laws ...... more then half the population it seems has ZERO common sense.
 
Last edited:
I think there should be a process to getting a carry permit. Start out with a safety course, some type of mental exam, (probably given in written form using a list of questions), and a waiting period while the applicant’s background check has been completed. We take a test to get a driver’s license, so why not a test to check a person’s thinking?
 
When we purchased our guns in NH, my husband & I went to our local police station, registered the guns with only I.D. and that was our permit to carry Didn't even have to show Bill of Sale for the guns. Very easy to do. I really appreciate what you advised @oldman. Wouldn't have minded it at all.
 
Jeni said:
there are thousands of people that carry guns and go about life every day and no one even notices .....
just like other situations some people hear or read these things and assume it is the wild west and they will be shot going about daily errands ... that is what fear mongering does...

There are background checks and waiting periods for guns ..........it is NOT go in to store walk out with gun ...
but like everything in this country it is clunky and does not work together......and so many only hear media BS not looking at details.
Some states databases not up to minute even as backlogged as 9 months so if it is not in the federal system for checks because incident happened last week... it does not show on report ....
What is the answer for mental health when someone CAN pass one day and simply snap on another day.....
ever hear or the temporary insanity defenses ? .....
even see 2 psychologists could get 2 answers of a persons mental state.

Most mass shooters get the guns used from theft/ or using a weapon owned by another family member etc.....
Years ago there was a school shooting in my area ... kid took dads gun....
but here is the kicker he was passed because he marked no issues on background form
CLERK did not run it through the law enforcement database as guy had a protection order on him from his ex- wife.......

Look at the strongest gun control law areas ....Chicago ring a bell ..... but of course there is NEVER a shooting there 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Laws are only a speed bump for some .... look how laws solved the drug problems / drinking while driving issues.... murder and so on...
I never understood those who scream for more laws all the time... using false adjectives like Common sense laws ...... more then half the population it seems has ZERO common sense.
Click to expand...
Where do most of the firearms involved in shootings come from? If a significant number of arms used are coming into a very restricted area from somewhere else, then it invalidates the concept because the restrictions weren't applicable. Comparing whole countries with tight control vs easy access may be more indicative, but then would cultural differences have to be factored in?
 
Many gun owners in America do not have guns for self-protection. We are hunters and have long guns for hunting purposes. Of course, if threatened at home, one would most likely grab a shotgun and protect yourself and your family. As always, you cannot accept all the media hype about guns and gun owners.
 
AnnieA said:
Unless you take the guns from the crazies and the criminals first, you run the risk of a situation similar to Mexico which has very strict gun control laws for the average citizen and is pretty much run by the Sinaola and other cartels that have plenty of illegal weapons.

And I so wish Ukrainian civilians had more guns. Can you imagine the horror of unarmed people hiding in a basement with no guns hearing armed soldiers on the steps? Watching execution style murders like the ones below with no means to fight back?


56188727-10684331-Russian_forces_which_had_occupied_areas_to_the_west_of_Kyiv_sinc-a-9_1649090545992.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes, the news from Ukraine yesterday was truly horrifying. But, Annie, you expect individual civilians, armed with their one or two guns, to take on the entire Russian army? This is a military force being run by a psychopath.

In any case, justifying gun ownership all over the world by bringing in a war that is going on is, well, apples and oranges. The daily carnage in our cities and towns, often by people who are career criminals or mentally ill, often with assault weapons that have no business being owned by civilians in the first place, gives you your answer. Of course we are too unstable for "everybody" to be armed!
 
Sunny said:
But, Annie, you expect individual civilians, armed with their one or two guns, to take on the entire Russian army? This is a military force being run by a psychopath.
Click to expand...

Where did I say the "entire" Russian army? I did mention a specific scenario of those huddled in basements. If you were in a basement with your family, wouldn't you prefer that you and other civilians were armed as you heard soldiers approaching?
 
And you think the Russian troops attacking these civilians would just stand there and allow themselves to be shot, without calling in reinforcements or summoning other troops? Maybe signaling that a bomb should be dropped on that house? There is no chance that a random group of ordinary civilians, who just happen to own guns, have been practicing and refining their shooting skills for months, and are organized enough to take on a group of trained combat forces, would survive a shooting match with trained forces. (Even if it would make a good movie scene. An old movie.)
 
Sunny said:
And you think the Russian troops attacking these civilians would just stand there and allow themselves to be shot, without calling in reinforcements or summoning other troops? Maybe signaling that a bomb should be dropped on that house? There is no chance that a random group of ordinary civilians, who just happen to own guns, have been practicing and refining their shooting skills for months, and are organized enough to take on a group of trained combat forces, would survive a shooting match with trained forces. (Even if it would make a good movie scene. An old movie.)
Click to expand...
The fact that you may not win doesn't mean you should just sit there & die.
 
I took a look at Twitter this morning (for the first time in about a year). That was all it took to convince me people are far too unstable to own weapons! 🤣

I felt the need to take a shower after looking in there. It's like going into a sewer or walking through spiderwebs in an unused attic. Bleh!
 
Sunny said:
And you think the Russian troops attacking these civilians would just stand there and allow themselves to be shot, without calling in reinforcements or summoning other troops? Maybe signaling that a bomb should be dropped on that house? There is no chance that a random group of ordinary civilians, who just happen to own guns, have been practicing and refining their shooting skills for months, and are organized enough to take on a group of trained combat forces, would survive a shooting match with trained forces. (Even if it would make a good movie scene. An old movie.)
Click to expand...

The inept Russian troops can't communicate with each other much of the time, have suffered from hunger and frostbite because they're not outfitted with the basics. Farmers have been pulling their tanks away from them with John Deere tractors. The only real 'success' they've had is against defenseless civilians who at least could've died trying had they been armed. Quick death from shots at you because you have a weapon is much better than having your hands bound behind you and shot execution style.
 
Last edited:
Sunny said:
And you think the Russian troops attacking these civilians would just stand there and allow themselves to be shot, without calling in reinforcements or summoning other troops? Maybe signaling that a bomb should be dropped on that house? There is no chance that a random group of ordinary civilians, who just happen to own guns, have been practicing and refining their shooting skills for months, and are organized enough to take on a group of trained combat forces, would survive a shooting match with trained forces. (Even if it would make a good movie scene. An old movie.)
Click to expand...

I cannot speak to the Ukrainians and Russian army; I will let you do that research if you want. But in the USA today we have at least 72 million individuals with guns, including some with military weapons.

Our total number of people in the armed services are 1.3 million and the total number of police in the country is around 325,000. So, if we had a revolt against the government at most would they have around 1.6 million, at best, to fight. And the citizen army would be as many as 72 million people. Now even though the government would have airplanes, tanks, and many other mass killing devices, we know from Viet Nam and Korea that a population under attack within their country does not fight out in the open. Tanks, airplanes, etc. do not work well enough when are outnumbered 72 million to1.6 million....

That being said, I am suspect that the Ukrainians have a similar situation, except their army has tanks and mass killing weapons and they also have a large number of citizens fighting with them. Time will tell...
 
Most are focused on the mass killings. But the people who are getting shot are the owners of the guns, and those know to the shooter. Close to 60% of all gun related deaths are suicides. And at close to the remaining 40%, the shooter knows the victim. Do I think taking away guns will stop a suicide? No, but it will make it more difficult. And while some may think blowing their brains out is OK, they are adverse to causing pain which might make suicide less attractive. My point is guns are a needlessly easy means of killing people. And people are emotionally too unstable to have that easy access to deadly weapons. Years ago, the NRA crowd thought that flooding the nation with weapons would ensure that nobody could take their guns away. I think the flood of gun deaths will be the cause of removing weapons .
 
Last edited:
Many adults are emotionally stable enough to possess lethal weapons, but then that is not really the issue is it? There is simply no way to assess those that might be from those that given an emotional situation or criminal intent are not. Just consider all the couples that regularly engage in screaming and threats while being incapable of holding rational, calm discussion. Some otherwise seeming logical and calm individuals may become enraged monsters when emotional.

Worse is the reality of large numbers of life long criminals with histories of evil. Or the many that glorify fighting, combat and war. Just look at the myriad today hooked on violent video games. Although gun ownership ought be legal and has a list of valid reasons to be allowed, the best we can do at this point is to prevent access as much as possible to mentally unstable and miscreants, and clamp down on the vast gun and parts industry that thrives in a nation and world where there are always jurisdictions they may operate in to supply regions that do not.
 
oldman said:
I think there should be a process to getting a carry permit. Start out with a safety course, some type of mental exam, (probably given in written form using a list of questions), and a waiting period while the applicant’s background check has been completed. We take a test to get a driver’s license, so why not a test to check a person’s thinking?
Click to expand...
Your plan had some good points, but do you realistically believe the NRA crowd will ever agree to it? To give you an idea of gun control in the US- if I'm Charlie Manson, and I've escaped from prison, can I legally be sold an AK47 from a 'private' individual, out behind Walmart at 3:30 AM for cash. YUP.
 
There are different types of gun violence in this country. The media mainly focuses on the sensational. Case in point is Chicago. Like many cities, there are areas more prone to gun violence. However, it's mainly gangs doing the shootings in turf wars. But the media will never tell you that.

Within the past couple of months, I read about two shootings. Domestic violence in Texas and California. I guess both couples were initially emotionally balanced and proceeded to have a family. For whatever reasons, the husbands committed murder/suicide. I never heard any arguments about if the wives had guns they could have saved kids and themselves. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that they were enough guns in those two homes. Didn't seem to do any good.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top