At Least 3 Killed In Washington State Mall. One Shooter Still On Loose.

Surely there is a balance between every person in the mall having an Uzi and a "gun free" invitation to the "bad guys". There is no need for going to extremes in discussions like this.
 

Well, the facts are that most mass shootings occur in gun free zones. And there is no suggestion that we all carry Uzis. I am just pointing out that most of the mass shootings have occurred in gun free zones.

There seems to be a perception that people with CC permits are completely inept and devoid of judgment and experience, and will go around shooting wildly -- which is far from the truth. Here, at least, to get a CC permit you have to have serious background checks, go to pretty intense classes, and also demonstrate a proficiency with your weapon. Many people here with CC permits are ex-military, ex cops, and people with a lifelong experience with weapons. I'd a lot rather have one (or several) of those folks trying to resolve the situation than to just be shot like a rat in a box because I'm part of a completely defenseless crowd.
 
fureverywhere said:
I beg to differ about gun free zones. I mean the fellow from the band in the Paris shootings got himself in trouble for such statements. He basically called Paris citizens a crude name for female cats because of strict gun laws. However another theory holds that if in fact members of the audience had been armed there might have been even more fatalities.

Not every gun owner is a skilled sharpshooter. Against major sized weapons is another issue. In complete chaos even someone who is a good shot might have difficulty taking down a gunman. Also shooting and perhaps missing pinpoints your location. The gunman might just open fire your direction when it might have been wiser to just make a run for it.

IMHO John Wayne mentality can be a dangerous way of thinking in some situations.
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Agree completely.

People who are all hot for the idea of large numbers of citizens carrying concealed weapons, ready to whip them out and start blazing away at some mass shooter, either aren't considering or have no clue as to where the bullets go after they leave the barrel of a "good guy's" gun.

They must think it's like on TV where the good guy never misses and the bullets always lodge inside the bodies of the bad guys. The truth is that bullets do crazy things after being fired. They ricochet around, often striking completely unintended targets, like other people, including children. Or, even if the good guy's aim is true and he hits the bad guy, often times the bullet passes right through the bad guy's body then does the same kinds of things described above. They've even been known to pass through concrete walls where they strike some unsuspecting person on the other side.

Now, try to imagine half a dozen or so "good guys" in an enclosed area like a shopping mall, firing wildly out of panic and fear, with all those bullets flying and bouncing around.

It would be much more dangerous and likely result in more injury and death than the bad guy alone would have caused.

But forget about trying to tell some people that. They don't want hear anything bad about their beloved guns.
 
Terrorism not being ruled out. The killer from Turkey had permanent residency status, not citizenship.

https://thecenternews.com/2016/09/25/terrorism-not-ruled-fatal-washington-state-mall-shooting-5/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cascade-mall-shooting-suspect-arcan-cetin-troubled-young-man/

Shooters past includes 'a' criminal history and social problems. Had been arrested for duis and assaulting his step father. Described as a bully and creepy. Had a lot of different social media activity but they included posts about Iran's Ayatollah Khamenei and Syria's Abu Bkar al-Bagdadi. Also liked video games.

Arraignment pending.
 
Victor Meldrew said:
Agree completely.

People who are all hot for the idea of large numbers of citizens carrying concealed weapons, ready to whip them out and start blazing away at some mass shooter, either aren't considering or have no clue as to where the bullets go after they leave the barrel of a "good guy's" gun.

They must think it's like on TV where the good guy never misses and the bullets always lodge inside the bodies of the bad guys. The truth is that bullets do crazy things after being fired. They ricochet around, often striking completely unintended targets, like other people, including children. Or, even if the good guy's aim is true and he hits the bad guy, often times the bullet passes right through the bad guy's body then does the same kinds of things described above. They've even been known to pass through concrete walls where they strike some unsuspecting person on the other side.

Now, try to imagine half a dozen or so "good guys" in an enclosed area like a shopping mall, firing wildly out of panic and fear, with all those bullets flying and bouncing around.

It would be much more dangerous and likely result in more injury and death than the bad guy alone would have caused.

But forget about trying to tell some people that. They don't want hear anything bad about their beloved guns.
Click to expand...

Once again, here's the assumption that people with CC permits are a bunch of Keystone Kops. The people I know with CC permits would NEVER be "firing wildly out of panic and fear." They know how to handle themselves and their weapons. AND, I'd rather take the off chance of being killed by friendly fire than the almost certainty that I'd be killed by the rampage killer. Ask those folks in Orlando or Paris if they would not have been glad to see someone take that shooter out, or at least try.
 

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