Australia & Putin

metasegue said:
Was this before or after Putin poisoned Viktor Yushchenko? You remember him...he was introducing democracy to Ukraine.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko

This page doesn't say really anything to that effect.

Many have linked Yushchenko's poisoning to a dinner with a group of senior Ukrainian officials (including Volodymyr Satsyuk) that took place on 5 September...Yushchenko himself implicated David Zhvania, who was a minister in the Tymoshenko government that was ousted by Yushchenko and was the godfather of one of his children, of involvement in his dioxin poisoning...... Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office, said high-ranking officials from the presidential secretariat and family members of Yushchenko falsified evidence in his poisoning case, with dioxin being added to Yushchenko's blood samples....The 2004 TCDD levels in Yushchenko's blood serum were 50,000-fold greater than those in the general population.[SUP][24][/SUP] This new study also concluded that the dioxin "was so pure that it was definitely made in a laboratory"......September 2009, a special commission, created by the Verkhovna Rada, came to a conclusion that the Yushchenko dioxin poisoning was falsified to strengthen his positions during 2004 presidential elections

Also, it would appear that he was running against Yanukovych (whom the US helped throw out of office)and that neither won a 50% + majority and .....Because neither candidate reached the 50% majority required for outright victory, a second round of run-off voting was held on November 21, 2004. Although a 75% voter turnout was recorded,observers reported many irregularities and abuses across the country, such as organized multiple voting and extra votes for Yanukovych after the polls closed..

September 8, 2005 Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko sacked the entire government after both Deputy Prime Minister Mykola Tomenko and presidential chief of staff Oleksandr Zinchenko spoke out that the government was "riddled with corruption" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Tymoshenko_Government)


So now it's your turn. Provide the proof that Putin had anything to do with that incident. From what I have read, it's more likely that it was either members in his own party who had an agenda to get their party/him in whatever the cost or possibly the recently thrown out Yanukovich government that were seeking to take out the opposition. And keep in mind, that besides Russia producing TCCD (Agent Orange) so does the USA and the USA wasn't hesitant about spraying Vietnam with the chemical and the USA recently funnelled $5 billion into the Ukraine to help them oust their government. Bless the CIA, so useful when one has an agenda.

It's an interesting thing to note from another page, that during the hay-day of the Soviet Union, the KGB took assassination by poisoning to new levels of sophistication. The article goes on to question why anyone would choose a toxin that would remain in the mans system for years and my question, why would they not give him enough to actually kill him. Like this article says, why not do the job properly with strychnine which it seems to me, if it were Russian assassins at work, they would know how to do the job properly. http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_poisoning_of_ukraines_president/
 

Debby said:
Russia was fine until the US started meddling in Ukraine.
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It doesn't take much for Putin to stick his nose in, (if anything at all) it's common knowledge that he wants the 'old' Russia back, back to the glory days of the KGB & communisim.

Reading the article one could be forgiven for thinking that climate change was something new, all their hot air is rhetoric, rhetoric.
Climate change was forced to the top of the G20 agenda on Saturday, despite the objections of the host nation Australia, after Barack Obama urged the world to rally behind a new global agreement and the United Nations secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, called it “the defining issue of our times”.
The Australian prime minister, Tony Abbott, had argued climate discussions would distract from the G20’s economic policy focus and should be left to other UN-led meetings.
But in a one-two manoeuvre that caught Australia off guard, Obama upstaged Abbott and made certain it was the talk of the conference anyway. First came the joint US/China post-2020 greenhouse emission reduction targets announced in Beijing on the eve of the summit and then the $3bn Green Climate Fund pledge made in a keynote speech as Abbott was greeting other world leaders across town.
“No nation is immune and every nation has a responsibility to do its part,” Obama said. “You will recall at the beginning I said the US and Australia has a lot in common. Well one of the things we have in common is we produce a lot of carbon … which means we’ve got to step up.”
He said the targets he announced with the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, sent “a powerful message to the world that all countries, whether you are a developed country, a developing country or somewhere in between, you’ve got to be able to overcome old divides, look squarely at the science and reach a strong global climate agreement next year”.
“And if China and the US can agree on this then the world can agree on this, we can get this done and it is necessary for us to get it done.”
But in the backrooms of the G20, Australia was continuing to resist
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Fern said:
It doesn't take much for Putin to stick his nose in, (if anything at all) it's common knowledge that he wants the 'old' Russia back, back to the glory days of the KGB & communisim.
Click to expand...


Are you serious? Who stuck their nose into the Ukraine in 2013? America did to the tune of $5 billion to neo-Nazis and fascists. And frankly after all the reading that I've done that IS NOT mainstream media offerings, he isn't interested in reviving the old days of Russia and communism. From what I'v been reading his focus is on making Russia self-sufficient (particularly now), continue to develop that society and move away from the poverty that the country suffered with through Communism and maintaining an economy that doesn't include the American dollar, and does include backing up the Russian ruble with physical gold, and THAT is one more reason why the US is so fixated on proving that 'theirs is bigger'.

Russia just bought 55 tonnes of gold as a hedge against an economic downfall that is being orchestrated by the US and Saudi Arabia. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/putin-prepares-economic-war-buys-stunning-55-tonnes-gold-q3

The American economy has grown an enormous debt (that they'll never pay back because it's so huge) simply because they can print money out of thin air. That's what happens when you don't have to back up a fiat currency with something actual and physical. Once upon a time their currency was backed up by gold, now it's not. And because being the reserve currency makes them a lot of money because the world has to 'buy' American dollars to trade in and particularly in the case of oil (referred to as 'petrodollars'), the American administration is doing whatever it can to prevent gold from being seen as a currency and to prevent other countries from using anything other than their dollars as a trading currency.

Saddam Hussein wanted to trade oil for Euro's (avoid the American dollar) and he was killed. Ghaddafi wanted to trade oil for gold and he was killed. Iran wanted to start an Iranian bourse which would have seen them trading oil for euros and now Russia and China are going to do their commerce in rubles (no American dollars) and America is PO'd. Frankly I'm amazed that Harper had the balls to start trading with China in yuan/rubles and bypass the American dollar.

Around 2005, Iran began to set in motion a plan for trading their oil for euros, one more reason they're on the American sh** list.

'...In 2005-2006, The Tehran government has a developed a plan to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-denominated international oil-trading mechanism. This means that without some form of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project for U.S. global domination, Tehran's objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on U.S. dollar supremacy in the international oil market...' - http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html





'...The details are emerging of a new secret and quite stupid Saudi-US deal on Syria and the so-called IS. It involves oil and gas control of the entire region and the weakening of Russia and Iran by Saudi Arabian flooding the world market with cheap oil. Details were concluded in the September meeting by US Secretary of State John Kerry and the Saudi King. The unintended consequence will be to push Russia even faster to turn east to China and Eurasia....'http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130
 
But in the backrooms of the G20, Australia was continuing to resist
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Only our current government who have painted themselves into a corner on climate change, having used the "great big new tax" mantra to demolish the previous government. Their greenhouse emissions reduction policy is farcical and the less light that is shone on it the better as far as they are concerned. They utterly refuse to see climate change as an economic challenge.
 
Dame Warrigal, most politicians are thinking in terms of their next term in office and thinking about the environment might impinge on that possibility, so they adopt the mantra, 'deny, deny, deny'. That way they might get relected and then some other guy can deal with the climate when their done being a politician.

Besides, they retire with big bank accounts, the possibility of millions from speaking engagements so they'll be able to live 'off world' (remember that recent movie 'Elysium'?) while the rest of human lives in the heat and filth on a world that is dying. Do you think that's possible?

My hope is that if they don't get their acts together, that the space race won't have been able to figure out living off world and they'll be stick down here on the dying world with us. It will be the equivalent of throwing them into 'general population' and we all know what that means.
 
Please, Debby, my friends just call me Warri. :grin:

Out PM has been completely flat footed by the USA and China and he is looking increasingly foolish.
He's had 14 months in office and the fates are conspiring against him.
I'm loving it because he is a nasty piece of work.
 
Ouch! Robyn Dixon from the Los Angeles Times has nailed it about the state of Australian politics.

Comment: Australia suffers another cringe-worthy moment during G20 summit



20141116001061772719-original.jpg

Prime Minister Tony Abbott at the G20 summit. (AAP)


The adolescent country. The bit player. The shrimp of the schoolyard.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/...nother-cringe-worthy-moment-during-g20-summit
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Dame Warrigal said:
Ouch! Robyn Dixon from the Los Angeles Times has nailed it about the state of Australian politics.
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Thanks 'Warri' and I'll try to remember that. I say try, because last week I was in the grocery story, passing some display of house decor kind of stuff and suddenly I realized I couldn't remember what my bathroom looked like, or where it was exactly in my house. Kind of freaked me out for a minute you know. By the way, is Warrigal an Aussi name and does it mean something or is that a 'handle' you chose?


Anyway, sounds like your PM is about as bright as our PM. It's like a bunch of pre-adolescent teen boys trying to prove who can pee the farthest instead of looking at and for ways to support the citizens and make the majority happy. And ultimately, isn't 'happiness' the end goal? Stupid politicians.
 
Warrigal is several things. It is a town in Victoria, the Aboriginal word for dingo and it was used by white settlers as a term for native warriors.

When I was a youth leader I needed a club name that the kids could use that was somewhere between formal and cheeky. The scouts use names from the Jungle book; Raksha, Akela, Baloo etc so I decided to pick an Aboriginal name and settled on Warrigal - hence my dingo avatar.

When our new PM decided to revive something like Imperial honours in the form of knighthoods and Dameships it provoked an avalanche of people assuming such titles as a send up. I decided to appropriate one for my online persona. After all what's good for Edna Everidge if good enough for me.
 
Yes, we are using Saudi oil to influence Russia. We couldn't have done it without becoming over producers of natural gas through expanded drilling and fracing. This is returning cheap (and cleaner) energy to America, driving economic recovery, reducing emissions, and lowering our deficit percentage. Putin's ex KGB pals kill for a trifle of the billions he's pocketing. They used a very sophisticated radio isotope to murder in the UK (2004).

What seems clear to me is Putin's obvious manipulation of Russian elections...or is that imagination also?
 
metasegue said:
Yes, we are using Saudi oil to influence Russia. We couldn't have done it without becoming over producers of natural gas through expanded drilling and fracing. This is returning cheap (and cleaner) energy to America, driving economic recovery, reducing emissions, and lowering our deficit percentage. Putin's ex KGB pals kill for a trifle of the billions he's pocketing. They used a very sophisticated radio isotope to murder in the UK (2005).
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...thought you said Salad Oil for a minute!:)
 
I saw the press release with David Cameron and Vladimir Putin..icy wasn't the word...

Thing is...Russia has the gas..we buy it from them...they could turn the tap off and let us freeze..

Our government has tried to introduce ''fracking'' but there has been such an outcry from the Greens..Earthquakes...destruction of places of natural beauty..pollution...That they let it drop!!
 
metasegue said:
Yes, we are using Saudi oil to influence Russia. We couldn't have done it without becoming over producers of natural gas through expanded drilling and fracing. This is returning cheap (and cleaner) energy to America, driving economic recovery, reducing emissions, and lowering our deficit percentage. Putin's ex KGB pals kill for a trifle of the billions he's pocketing. They used a very sophisticated radio isotope to murder in the UK (2004).

What seems clear to me is Putin's obvious manipulation of Russian elections...or is that imagination also?
Click to expand...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/bombshell-us-caught-meddling-in-russian-elections/28060

You have to ask yourself, who is it that is saying these things about Putin manipulating elections? If it's mainstream media in Britain, Canada or the US, ignore it. If it's Freedom House, they get funding from the US government. I'm not saying he hasn't but all those sites that Google brings up in my opinion are suspect. Find an unbiased site which is known for being non-partisan and receives no Western government funding and I'll accept it.




One thing you'll notice about my posts on foreign relations is that I always include links that support the statements that I'm making. My opinion is based on what I've read from people who have better access to information or a better education or have been following the story for years. As far as the 'rumour' about Putin poisoning that Yushenko, it is rumour which serves a purpose and my guess is that it serves the purpose of an American administration who have chosen to cast the man in the bad light of the Russian bogey-man. What you have to remember is that the incidents where this sort of thing happens, the process begins years before the American people begin to see the results. There are often years of work to bring those plans to fruition.

Here's one example: in 1991 the American administration decided to destabilize Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan and Libya. None other then General Wesley Clark is on record on that one. And in the years since that decision was made, Libya has been destroyed, so has Iraq, Syria is in flames and America is currently bombing Somalia. The plan goes forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5q9PYy1NoA Wesley Clark video

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/09/02/us-bombs-somalia-drone-attack Somalia bombed by American drones

As for what is going on with the oil prices, last night I was reading a great article from Global Research which is a think tank with a stellar reputation and according to the writer, this is all about control of resources in the region. Saudi's want to take down Syria and Iran (competitors and then also the religious aspect) and to do that they need to take down Russia who is also a competitor in the energy sector (which suits American agenda just perfect). The goal is to control the European energy market. And they're willing to do whatever it takes.

Note too, that in a time when that region is in flames and violence is rife, the price of oil should be going up (that's what always happens normally in that kind of scenario) but instead it's dropping like a stone. The other thing is that while that price is dropping like a stone, instead of cutting back on production to boost the price back up, they are continuing to produce oil at the same rates as previously.

Remember, the Saudi's whole economy runs on that oil and each individual who is Arab there profits by a distribution of the profits. So in the short run, the low prices are most definitely not good for the UAE. Most Saudi's don't even work at regular jobs from what I've heard because they are supported by those revenues. That's why the UAE has so many foreign workers, to do what the citizens won't and don't have to do.

In the short run, you profit at the pump, in the long term it pushes Russia towards Asia, brings about a continued move away from the petrodollar (which puts America's status as the holder of the reserve currency) at more risk and if (and some economists are saying 'when')enough countries quit using the dollar to trade with, America is screwed because you've built up a massive debt that you won't be able to service in any way because you'll no longer be the holder of the Reserve Currency and you won't be able to print money ad nauseum. QE 1,2,3 (are they doing QE 4 yet?) will only have kicked the 'Depression Can' down the road. With your massive debt, America will hurt.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130
 
"Yes, we are using Saudi oil to influence Russia. We couldn't have done it without becoming over producers of natural gas through expanded drilling and fracing. This is returning cheap (and cleaner) energy to America, driving economic recovery, reducing emissions, and lowering our deficit percentage"


To answer your remarks about America's natural gas, as far as America's natural gas resource, Global Research wrote the following:


'.....Number one, the “shale gas revolution” in the USA has failed. The dramatic rise in US natural gas production from “fracking” or forcing gas out of shale rock formations is being abandoned by the largest energy companies like Shell and BP as uneconomical.....veteran energy analyst David Hughes notes, “Shale gas production has grown explosively to account for nearly 40 percent of US natural gas production. Nevertheless, production has been on a plateau since December 2011; eighty percent of shale gas production comes from five plays, several of which are in decline. The very high decline rates of shale gas wells require continuous inputs of capital—estimated at $42 billion per year to drill more than 7,000 wells—in order to maintain production. In comparison, the value of shale gas produced in 2012 was just $32.5 billion......”



http://www.globalresearch.ca/replacing-russian-gas-deliveries-with-us-shale-gas-washington-lies-to-the-eu/5377358?print=1



 
Twixie said:
I saw the press release with David Cameron and Vladimir Putin..icy wasn't the word...

Thing is...Russia has the gas..we buy it from them...they could turn the tap off and let us freeze..

Our government has tried to introduce ''fracking'' but there has been such an outcry from the Greens..Earthquakes...destruction of places of natural beauty..pollution...That they let it drop!!
Click to expand...


Twixie, in this power play, America will pay no price in the short run. It will be the Russian people, the Ukrainian people and the EU who will bleed. If not in real blood, then financially as it pertains to things like energy, food, industry. Can you imagine how the average Ukrainian is feeling right now, on the cusp of winter and wondering how cold it's going to get? And yes, I feel sorry for the people there because the government was supposed to pay for the energy they were accepting from Russia. I'll bet the citizens had to pay for their heat you know!

And in the long run, what if as some are suggesting, the USA pushes Russia to the point where they feel they have to protect themselves and WW3 starts?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-29/paul-craig-roberts-pushing-toward-final-war

(gives me the warm-fuzzies when this author refers to my PM as America's puppet! Must make Harper feel wonderful - finally he's being noticed!)
 
Debby said:
Twixie, in this power play, America will pay no price in the short run. It will be the Russian people, the Ukrainian people and the EU who will bleed. If not in real blood, then financially as it pertains to things like energy, food, industry. Can you imagine how the average Ukrainian is feeling right now, on the cusp of winter and wondering how cold it's going to get? And yes, I feel sorry for the people there because the government was supposed to pay for the energy they were accepting from Russia. I'll bet the citizens had to pay for their heat you know!

And in the long run, what if as some are suggesting, the USA pushes Russia to the point where they feel they have to protect themselves and WW3 starts?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-29/paul-craig-roberts-pushing-toward-final-war

(gives me the warm-fuzzies when this author refers to my PM as America's puppet! Must make Harper feel wonderful - finally he's being noticed!)
Click to expand...

We are all treating Russia with kid gloves..because we don't know what power they actually have...are they bluffing?...Is it a game of poker?..

My hubs is a football fan..and Fabio Cappello who used to be the England manager is now the Russian National football manager..has been told that they can't afford to pay him.
 
Twixie said:
We are all treating Russia with kid gloves..because we don't know what power they actually have...are they bluffing?...Is it a game of poker?..

My hubs is a football fan..and Fabio Cappello who used to be the England manager is now the Russian National football manager..has been told that they can't afford to pay him.
Click to expand...


Ask yourself, who is trying to wreck the Russian economy? Did your husbands friend get paid by the Russian National football corporation before America and the Saudi's started fiddling with that economy via (their) sanctions?
 
Debby said:
Are you serious? Who stuck their nose into the Ukraine in 2013? America did to the tune of $5 billion to neo-Nazis and fascists. And frankly after all the reading that I've done that IS NOT mainstream media offerings, he isn't interested in reviving the old days of Russia and communism. From what I'v been reading his focus is on making Russia self-sufficient (particularly now), continue to develop that society and move away from the poverty that the country suffered with through Communism and maintaining an economy that doesn't include the American dollar, and does include backing up the Russian ruble with physical gold, and THAT is one more reason why the US is so fixated on proving that 'theirs is bigger'.

Russia just bought 55 tonnes of gold as a hedge against an economic downfall that is being orchestrated by the US and Saudi Arabia. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/putin-prepares-economic-war-buys-stunning-55-tonnes-gold-q3

The American economy has grown an enormous debt (that they'll never pay back because it's so huge) simply because they can print money out of thin air. That's what happens when you don't have to back up a fiat currency with something actual and physical. Once upon a time their currency was backed up by gold, now it's not. And because being the reserve currency makes them a lot of money because the world has to 'buy' American dollars to trade in and particularly in the case of oil (referred to as 'petrodollars'), the American administration is doing whatever it can to prevent gold from being seen as a currency and to prevent other countries from using anything other than their dollars as a trading currency.

Saddam Hussein wanted to trade oil for Euro's (avoid the American dollar) and he was killed. Ghaddafi wanted to trade oil for gold and he was killed. Iran wanted to start an Iranian bourse which would have seen them trading oil for euros and now Russia and China are going to do their commerce in rubles (no American dollars) and America is PO'd. Frankly I'm amazed that Harper had the balls to start trading with China in yuan/rubles and bypass the American dollar.

Around 2005, Iran began to set in motion a plan for trading their oil for euros, one more reason they're on the American sh** list.

'...In 2005-2006, The Tehran government has a developed a plan to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades - using a euro-denominated international oil-trading mechanism. This means that without some form of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project for U.S. global domination, Tehran's objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on U.S. dollar supremacy in the international oil market...' - http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html





'...The details are emerging of a new secret and quite stupid Saudi-US deal on Syria and the so-called IS. It involves oil and gas control of the entire region and the weakening of Russia and Iran by Saudi Arabian flooding the world market with cheap oil. Details were concluded in the September meeting by US Secretary of State John Kerry and the Saudi King. The unintended consequence will be to push Russia even faster to turn east to China and Eurasia....'http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130
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Of course the US sticks its nose in to where ever it sees fit, nothing has been said to the contrary.
Do we have to be browbeaten about the US, it's become very boring, the US is not 'the World' the main thrust of my thread was about Australia & Putin.
 
Well, the thread is about Putin and Australia and America has been trying to bring him down for the past year, and what's more Australia's PM made a big show of how he's going to 'shirt front' the guy, so it is all relevant. And my point of interest for the past couple years has been foreign affairs so that's mostly what I read about so when someone makes a statement that I believe has no basis in fact, I respond to it. Sorry if you are offended by my involvement in this public forum and telling what I know, but perhaps you could activate your mental 'ignore' button and I won't be such a bother to you.:D I won't be offended at all, I promise.
 
Debby said:
Ask yourself, who is trying to wreck the Russian economy? Did your husbands friend get paid by the Russian National football corporation before America and the Saudi's started fiddling with that economy via (their) sanctions?
Click to expand...

They owe him 7 million dollars...Ouch!!
 
I knew he would..he doesn't like to be seen kow towing to the West..

Back to oppressing the Ukraine...easier meat!...
 
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