Ban All Sharia Muslims From U.S. Entry-------Agree Or Disagree?

Redd said:
I can agree with you on some of what you say Debby. This country was built on immigrants that had different ways than ours but their core values were somewhat the same. I have to ask if you would eat a meal prepared by someone that refused to use soap to wash their hands after using the toilet as there might be alcohol in the solution.

I must agree with you that there are rude home grown Canadians that are pushy too. The difference is that I could voice an objection to their behavior. To a Muslim you simply cannot and they sense this and play on it.

It bothers me that I felt I had to quit a volunteer job at a food bank. My choice but I simply could not go on watching food provided by members of a predominately white church be hand delivered to Muslim families while elderly white clients were made to take a bus or get a ride to get their food. The reason was simply that these Muslim women were not allowed out unaccompanied so they insisted on delivery as their husbands were working. I had to give my head a shake as to why it is all right for these same women to travel in groups of other women to go shopping.
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I've never suggested that our way of life must be discarded as newcomers move in. Obviously they're coming here for a reason and part of the 'safety' and 'opportunity' aspects of our country hinge on our laws and ways of doing things. It just takes time to learn and make the adjustments I think.

As for your experience at the food bank, seriously, I find your explanation concerning. If they had no food and a family to feed, how are they any different in that basic need than any white family? As for someone bringing over food, well, maybe those clients had no understanding of bus systems or were afraid and not able to speak english well enough yet to feel able to venture out by themselves but if they are with a few other women who speak the same language, they are not so afraid to go out by themselves to do a little shopping? Could what you describe there be a result of a highly visible woman's fear of being accosted by someone that she can't speak to and who is hostile to her presence? A perfect example of that would be that horrible woman in Ontario that assaulted the Muslim woman who was out with her four year old daughter. If you were a newcomer and couldn't speak the language at all, how would you handle a situation like that? I know that I would be terrified.

In the past few years I've learned a new style of mulling over a situation and it always starts with asking myself the question, 'how would I feel......if I had no food and a family to feed, if my kids had a substandard education in a world that requires credentials, if I was disabled and lonely and couldn't get out, if I was the only one of a different colour in a crowd of people......' It has done wonders for my ability to understand and empathize with the fear that new comers or 'outsiders' might be experiencing.

Pointing to differences in behaviour as a reason for not liking people also suggests that the newcomers will never learn our ways, will never assimilate and I think statistically, that's untrue. They might behave differently in the beginning, but unless they have mental illnesses, most people want to fit in and get along. Again, put yourself in their place and imagine that you've been forced to move to some non-english speaking country. Would you blend in seamlessly or would you commit some social faux-pas in the beginning?

This morning I was watching the National and they talked to a Syrian family that is now living in Lethbridge, Alberta. The kids are in school, working hard to fit in and the parents are both in english classes as well and they have a goal of being fluent in English within a year. So commendable but exhausting for all of them because there is so much to learn. The one son wants to go to university to become a mechanical engineer and the other is hoping for either a future as an engineer or a doctor. They will add to our country as the years go by so it seems to me that if they are different in some ways, they are also the same in so many.

I was really moved at one point. The sponsor group had given them a camera to be used to record special moments or images that were meaningful in their new home. The first morning, the father was awakened early by a sound outside their bedroom window and when he looked out, he saw a herd of five or six deer who were relaxing on the grass outside their house. He woke the family up to see them and he said, 'when he saw the deer there and saw that they felt so safe that they could move about and nobody harmed them, then he knew that his family would be safe too'.

They have dreams and goals and love their families and are willing to work hard to achieve those goals. But in the beginning, maybe it will take some extra help. I think we Canadians are the kind of people who can do that for others.
 

Debby, it is said that sometimes we must walk a mile in another's shoes in order to experience what they experience. I would hazard a guess that you live in a small town.

As far as the food bank, they take advantage, period. They also come in late model vehicles, husband, wife and kids making the rounds of all the food banks and there are those that will comply with bending the rules for fear of being labelled racist. It's nicer to be viewed as nice. And don't try to explain the rules, that they should register with only one and they suddenly don't understand English. They do this in order to pick and choose what they will eat and throw the rest into the bushes outside the food bank. And let's face it, with the money doled out to them by our Canadian government there is no need for a food bank in the first place.

So we will agree to disagree on this.
 
Redd’s comment about the Canadian government taking care of refugee’s needs being sufficient that they shouldn’t need to use the food bank, made me curious so I thought I’d look it up.


According to the CTV, the benefits are as follows:


. the support is only available for one year.


. the maximum they could receive for that one year is $25,000 per family. That includes a one time start-up payment and then the monthly income support.


. these figures are based on the provincial social assistance rates.


. the start up amount is roughly $2065.00 and would cover the basics like furniture, winter clothing, telephone installation.


. in Ontario, the estimated monthly assistance would be $768.00 but that figure depends on the individuals circumstances.




This support is only given to federally sponsored refugees, but if they are sponsored by family members, they don’t receive anything. It should also be noted that most refugees end up in debt at the end of the year because they are expected to repay the cost of their transportation to Canada as well as any other related expenses with interest. The Council on Refugees says that more than 90% of refugees repay their loans.


The family I mentioned in that other comment of mine has five or six kids. $25,000.00 for a family of 8 is going to mean that they will need help via a food bank. I think if Redd was seeing clients coming in ’nice’ cars, they are likely private sponsored and the cars belong to the families that sponsor/support them.


http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/fact-check-do-refugees-get-more-financial-help-than-canadian-pensioners-1.2670735
 
Debby said:
I've never suggested that our way of life must be discarded as newcomers move in. Obviously they're coming here for a reason and part of the 'safety' and 'opportunity' aspects of our country hinge on our laws and ways of doing things. It just takes time to learn and make the adjustments I think.

As for your experience at the food bank, seriously, I find your explanation concerning. If they had no food and a family to feed, how are they any different in that basic need than any white family? As for someone bringing over food, well, maybe those clients had no understanding of bus systems or were afraid and not able to speak english well enough yet to feel able to venture out by themselves but if they are with a few other women who speak the same language, they are not so afraid to go out by themselves to do a little shopping? Could what you describe there be a result of a highly visible woman's fear of being accosted by someone that she can't speak to and who is hostile to her presence? A perfect example of that would be that horrible woman in Ontario that assaulted the Muslim woman who was out with her four year old daughter. If you were a newcomer and couldn't speak the language at all, how would you handle a situation like that? I know that I would be terrified.

In the past few years I've learned a new style of mulling over a situation and it always starts with asking myself the question, 'how would I feel......if I had no food and a family to feed, if my kids had a substandard education in a world that requires credentials, if I was disabled and lonely and couldn't get out, if I was the only one of a different colour in a crowd of people......' It has done wonders for my ability to understand and empathize with the fear that new comers or 'outsiders' might be experiencing.

Pointing to differences in behaviour as a reason for not liking people also suggests that the newcomers will never learn our ways, will never assimilate and I think statistically, that's untrue. They might behave differently in the beginning, but unless they have mental illnesses, most people want to fit in and get along. Again, put yourself in their place and imagine that you've been forced to move to some non-english speaking country. Would you blend in seamlessly or would you commit some social faux-pas in the beginning?

This morning I was watching the National and they talked to a Syrian family that is now living in Lethbridge, Alberta. The kids are in school, working hard to fit in and the parents are both in english classes as well and they have a goal of being fluent in English within a year. So commendable but exhausting for all of them because there is so much to learn. The one son wants to go to university to become a mechanical engineer and the other is hoping for either a future as an engineer or a doctor. They will add to our country as the years go by so it seems to me that if they are different in some ways, they are also the same in so many.

I was really moved at one point. The sponsor group had given them a camera to be used to record special moments or images that were meaningful in their new home. The first morning, the father was awakened early by a sound outside their bedroom window and when he looked out, he saw a herd of five or six deer who were relaxing on the grass outside their house. He woke the family up to see them and he said, 'when he saw the deer there and saw that they felt so safe that they could move about and nobody harmed them, then he knew that his family would be safe too'.

They have dreams and goals and love their families and are willing to work hard to achieve those goals. But in the beginning, maybe it will take some extra help. I think we Canadians are the kind of people who can do that for others.
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People feed on advantages available to them. I never let anyone's racial/ ethnic/ religious/ gender.....ect, influence my dealings with people. The very thought of discrimination is serious
and should be addressed accordingly, but there are those who use this very term to try and take advantage of you, they expect you jump at the very mention of the word. This term has erroneously been used so much that when acts of discrimination do occur people think it is just another ploy to capitalize on others. No matter our social status, we are all a people of a common race(human), separated by ideology. When this ideology becomes the detriment of society, it's time for it to go.
 
You know, there are always going to be people who try to abuse the system. Doesn't matter what system, there are scammers. But the only way our societies move forward if we take a chance and get the systems set up with as many safeguards as possible. No one likes to be taken advantage of and that includes the taxpayers. We have to make the ideology of being kind and compassionate human beings the guide as we go forward, no matter what the culture. Religion, language, food....all culture, but an ideology of understanding and kindness can be learned if we talk about it.

And I'm positive there are Muslim people all across the country and the world, who have that as their guide too. I've heard some of them talk on panels on talk shows so they are there. But the focus is so much on the horror stories that it seems that 'that there's no time left' to hear any good ones and now you have to spend time convincing people that there are some positive Muslim stories.

That's my perspective, my opinion and others may see it differently because their life experiences are different, but you talked about 'the detriment of society' and I think that kind of ideology that I'm pining for would be a benefit for society everywhere.
 
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