Beliefs - a question

Do I believe in things that haven't yet been proven scientifically to my satisfaction? No.

But I believe in some things based on my own experiences that scientists continue to explore.

I see a distinction between the supernatural and the mythological.
 

... So why do people believe what they do? Do you have beliefs not supported by science? Just curious. Be nice. No people bashing. OK?
Yes and it is something I'm increasing thinking about. I have always had a belief I would live the end years of my life teamed up with a loving woman, sharing many of my same interests excited about life.

But that "belief" isn't supported by science (As though that matters haha.) and rather is an attitude drive from deep in my male animal creature being.
 
Do I believe in things that haven't yet been proven scientifically to my satisfaction? No.

But I believe in some things based on my own experiences that scientists continue to explore.

I see a distinction between the supernatural and the mythological.
What about the paranormal which is somewhere between?
 

As a science person including one that studies physics and neuroscience, the "spark" of life has not been a mystery though my ideas are not yet accepted theory. All Earth DNA organic cells have cell walls made of internal lipid bilayers consisting of two back to back internal fatty acid chains with hydrophobic tails and externally hydrophilic phosphate heads.

Cells evolved to pump specific voltage charged water ions from intracellular sides of cell membranes to extracellular fluid spaces outside cells that creates a voltage difference cells use allowing specific substances to pass through ion gated pores while blocking others. Intracellular is about 90 millivolts negative versus extracellular. With animals but not plants, that voltage difference further evolved into specialized neuron sense cells that slowly propagate voltage potentials along the cell walls of dendrites and axons in order to perceive senses, control muscles, and develop intelligent controls. All multicellular animalia from tiny worms to ants, to mice, to we humans have resulting electromagnetic forces of brain waves that for decades had been dismissed as epiphenomenon.

A spark is a discharging electrical phenomenon and IMO brain waves are likewise complex oscillating electrical phenomenon within our bodies that our executive pilot parts of mind focuses into the parts of our gray matter brain for conscious awareness.
David, thanks for sharing. As you say, your position is still theory, yet to be verified by others. Even if science can prove what that spark of life really is the real question will still be unsolved, only hypothesized. How did this 'spark' start? Random evolution, or divine intervention?
 
I believe in God, creation, reincarnation, NDEs and that UFOs are real. I believe there has to be life beyond our planet. I feel it's mathematically impossible that out of all the galaxies, planets, stars, etc. that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. That being said, we base whether or not beings can travel here on our limited knowledge, being a younger planet. I guess all the things that scientists like to debunk but scientists are discovering things every time you turn around and walking back prior theories they were so sure they were right about. One of the things scientists are coming to accept is the existence of parallel universes. I also believe in out of body experiences. I had two and my honorary son has had a couple. I have no choice but to believe in psychic phenomena being I'm psychic and have been since I was a child (got more pronounced after my son was born) and ghosts and shadow people because loved ones (not in the same household), good friends and I have seen these entities. There are things that we as mere humans will never comprehend and those who haven't experienced them will never believe.
 
Em in Ohio said:
Do I believe in things that haven't yet been proven scientifically to my satisfaction? No.

But I believe in some things based on my own experiences that scientists continue to explore.

I see a distinction between the supernatural and the mythological.
What about the paranormal which is somewhere between?
Supernatural: "of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature." I see these as "natural plus." But I limit that to things like precognition, extra-sensory perception, and some manifestations. These are things (sensitivities, abilities) some humans are endowed with (or gifted with, if you prefer.)

I am more skeptical of many things that fall more under the category of the paranormal (almost synonymous, but...) That isn't to say that I think they are all false, just that I personally would need more scientific proof or personal experience. To me, this includes miracles, ghosts, past-lives.

A mythology is a collection of traditional stories about characters such as deities, (super)heroes, and fanciful creatures. These to me are stories with little or no basis in facts. I consider them fanciful exaggerations, at best. These are passed down from generation to generation and they travel via word-of-mouth to distant places with names and locations changed. They get translated and retranslated. They evolve with the circumstances of the times. (Think of these as the childhood game of telephone, where numerous kids sit in a circle and one whispers a message to the next, until they all hear "it." But inevitably, the last child's version rarely has much resemblance to the original.)

For anyone interested: https://historycollection.com/20-biblical-traditions-heavily-influenced-by-other-ancient-cultures/7/ (This has a great deal to do with my skepticism about the various bible versions.)
 
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Em in Ohio said:
Do I believe in things that haven't yet been proven scientifically to my satisfaction? No.

But I believe in some things based on my own experiences that scientists continue to explore.

I see a distinction between the supernatural and the mythological.

Supernatural: "of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature." I see these as "natural plus." But I limit that to things like precognition, extra-sensory perception, and some manifestations. These are things (sensitivities, abilities) some humans are endowed with (or gifted with, if you prefer.)

I am more skeptical of many things that fall more under the category of the paranormal (almost synonymous, but...) That isn't to say that I think they are all false, just that I personally would need more scientific proof or personal experience. To me, this includes miracles, ghosts, past-lives.

A mythology is a collection of traditional stories about characters such as deities, (super)heroes, and fanciful creatures. These to me are stories with little or no basis in facts. I consider them fanciful exaggerations, at best. These are passed down from generation to generation and they travel via word-of-mouth to distant places with names and locations changed. They get translated and retranslated. They evolve with the circumstances of the times. (Think of these as the childhood game of telephone, where numerous kids sit in a circle and one whispers a message to the next, until they all hear "it." But inevitably, the last child's version rarely has much resemblance to the original.)
I was thinking about police who sometimes call in psychics to help in unsolved cases. This does happen. So if L.E. does it there must be some credibility to it. :unsure: I'd like to know more about this than I do. Also, Qi Gong masters have a sort of Xray vision and cannot understand why doctors in the west rely on machines to deliver results they can see with their naked eyes. They are able to diagnose without equipment.
 
I believe in God, creation, reincarnation, NDEs and that UFOs are real. I believe there has to be life beyond our planet. I feel it's mathematically impossible that out of all the galaxies, planets, stars, etc. that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. That being said, we base whether or not beings can travel here on our limited knowledge, being a younger planet. I guess all the things that scientists like to debunk but scientists are discovering things every time you turn around and walking back prior theories they were so sure they were right about. One of the things scientists are coming to accept is the existence of parallel universes. I also believe in out of body experiences. I had two and my honorary son has had a couple. I have no choice but to believe in psychic phenomena being I'm psychic and have been since I was a child (got more pronounced after my son was born) and ghosts and shadow people because loved ones (not in the same household), good friends and I have seen these entities. There are things that we as mere humans will never comprehend and those who haven't experienced them will never believe.
I would have loved it if a friend had been with me when I saw an angel or when I saw ghosts. But I was always alone at the time. Who says they're not smart?
 
Em in Ohio said:
Do I believe in things that haven't yet been proven scientifically to my satisfaction? No.

But I believe in some things based on my own experiences that scientists continue to explore.

I see a distinction between the supernatural and the mythological.

Supernatural: "of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature." I see these as "natural plus." But I limit that to things like precognition, extra-sensory perception, and some manifestations. These are things (sensitivities, abilities) some humans are endowed with (or gifted with, if you prefer.)

I am more skeptical of many things that fall more under the category of the paranormal (almost synonymous, but...) That isn't to say that I think they are all false, just that I personally would need more scientific proof or personal experience. To me, this includes miracles, ghosts, past-lives.

A mythology is a collection of traditional stories about characters such as deities, (super)heroes, and fanciful creatures. These to me are stories with little or no basis in facts. I consider them fanciful exaggerations, at best. These are passed down from generation to generation and they travel via word-of-mouth to distant places with names and locations changed. They get translated and retranslated. They evolve with the circumstances of the times. (Think of these as the childhood game of telephone, where numerous kids sit in a circle and one whispers a message to the next, until they all hear "it." But inevitably, the last child's version rarely has much resemblance to the original.)
I was thinking about police who sometimes call in psychics to help in unsolved cases. This does happen. So if L.E. does it there must be some credibility to it. :unsure: I'd like to know more about this than I do. Also, Qi Gong masters have a sort of Xray vision and cannot understand why doctors in the west rely on machines to deliver results they can see with their naked eyes. They are able to diagnose without equipment.

I don't know what L.E. means and I know nothing of Qi Gong Masters, but I admire you greatly for your openness to explore other beliefs!
 
Em in Ohio said:
Do I believe in things that haven't yet been proven scientifically to my satisfaction? No.

But I believe in some things based on my own experiences that scientists continue to explore.

I see a distinction between the supernatural and the mythological.

Supernatural: "of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature." I see these as "natural plus." But I limit that to things like precognition, extra-sensory perception, and some manifestations. These are things (sensitivities, abilities) some humans are endowed with (or gifted with, if you prefer.)

I am more skeptical of many things that fall more under the category of the paranormal (almost synonymous, but...) That isn't to say that I think they are all false, just that I personally would need more scientific proof or personal experience. To me, this includes miracles, ghosts, past-lives.

A mythology is a collection of traditional stories about characters such as deities, (super)heroes, and fanciful creatures. These to me are stories with little or no basis in facts. I consider them fanciful exaggerations, at best. These are passed down from generation to generation and they travel via word-of-mouth to distant places with names and locations changed. They get translated and retranslated. They evolve with the circumstances of the times. (Think of these as the childhood game of telephone, where numerous kids sit in a circle and one whispers a message to the next, until they all hear "it." But inevitably, the last child's version rarely has much resemblance to the original.)


I don't know what L.E. means and I know nothing of Qi Gong Masters, but I admire you greatly for your openness to explore other beliefs!
L.E. is short for Law Enforcement. Qi Gong is a study of martial art/healing focusing on qi energy which all people possess. Masters spend years working on perfecting their relationship to qi = spirit. In Tibet Buddhist monks can drape their shoulders in wet cloths and sit in freezing cold temperatures while drying the cloths with the power of their minds translating to an increase in body temperature. It's sort of psycho neurological, which is similar to biofeedback. This is a fact but it is not common so Western cultures where we rely heavily on doctors and diagnostics. It's still a form of science though. And thank you too for being so open minded. :giggle:
 
L.E. is short for Law Enforcement. Qi Gong is a study of martial art/healing focusing on qi energy which all people possess. Masters spend years working on perfecting their relationship to qi = spirit. In Tibet Buddhist monks can drape their shoulders in wet cloths and sit in freezing cold temperatures while drying the cloths with the power of their minds translating to an increase in body temperature. It's sort of psycho neurological, which is similar to biofeedback. This is a fact but it is not common so Western cultures where we rely heavily on doctors and diagnostics. It's still a form of science though. And thank you too for being so open minded. :giggle:
My wife and I volunteer at an organization called Kids Kicking Cancer. We work with children with various chronic diseases. We tell them we are teaching them karate, we do some punching and kicking in the air. We spend most of the time teaching them meditation and pain management in the context of convincing them to be powerful martial artists.

Here are some technical papers discussing and quantifying the results the children see using the techniques -

https://heroescircle.org/category/pediatric-research/

Power, Peace, Purpose
 
Avi Loeb of Harvard astronomy, recently was back in the news about an opinion he first shared last fall that our universe might be the result of a lab creation by an advanced race since we find it unbelievably fine tuned. So a strong argument is the incredible fine tuning for life within our universe that many scientists are at a loss trying to explain why we are so lucky.

I personally like that idea. It may be that a god or race of UIE just create universes so and know from the infinite past history that such universes always evolve to slowly create unique worlds of organic DNA life as we find on Earth. Or the entity just needs to do a bit of gardening from what would naturally roll out like adding the DNA molecule and when a world's creatures have involved intelligence, some help bringing them to the level we homo sapiens have reached. In other words, without God/UIE's genetic work, ape and monkeys would have never reached the level of intelligence we find ourselves at. One can easily argue a God/UIEs would have an interest in doing so. Our highly unlikely just coincidental Moon that just coincidentally perfectly covers the sun during some solar eclipses may be another part of some actual hands on planet building they perform on some worlds within liquid water habitable zones aka "Goldilocks Zone".

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/was-our-universe-created-in-a-laboratory/
 
I would have loved it if a friend had been with me when I saw an angel or when I saw ghosts. But I was always alone at the time. Who says they're not smart?
Each of us were alone when we saw the entities Chic, but later talked about it. In one instance, I was on the phone with a good friend when she saw her "resident ghost...Tophat" enter her house. It was daylight too. She said "Oh sh*t!!!". I asked her what was wrong and she told me she saw him go in. I told her he's been in the house for years and never hurt her and her son (though her son was scared to go back into the basement where he first saw him) and that if he wanted to harm them he would have done it by now. Jokingly I told her to go into the house and say "Hey Tophat..que pasa?" He was nicknamed Tophat because everyone who saw him described him as wearing a tophat.

My grandson and my Honorary Daughter, not of the same household each saw shadow people in their homes. Neither of them talked about it with each other. So did an online friend of mine who is very respected. And I saw a ghost or maybe a Jinn in my apartment, who was staring at me from the hallway, several years ago. I also never felt threatened by him. BTW, a very psychic co-worker saw a ghost outside my interview room door while we were talking. It scared her and she reacted just before being called by our supervisor. When she came back and I asked her why she seemed frightened she told me she saw a tall white man in a white robe with hood standing to her right and that he was "my spirit". I asked her how she knew he wasn't "her spirit". She said because she knows hers. I thought it was particularly interesting because I had just returned from South Carolina where I met a long, lost cousin who just popped up at my cousin's house, unannounced; she had never visited her before. I was asking her about my (deceased) grandfather who I never met or even saw a picture of. But my uncle had told me he was coming to see my grandmother, he was tall and "looked like a White man coming down the road".
 
I would have loved it if a friend had been with me when I saw an angel or when I saw ghosts. But I was always alone at the time. Who says they're not smart?
Have you considered that these may simply be Hypnagogic hallucinations? I have experienced seeing dead relatives, or more often, people or objects that I didn't recognise. Nothing suspicious, these are known medical conditions. Not angels or ghosts (I don't think either exist), just imagination. The "builder" who made a botch job of renovating my neighbour's house, said it was haunted and he had seen the ghost. I suspect that the only spirits he saw were in a bottle!
 
Have you considered that these may simply be Hypnagogic hallucinations? I have experienced seeing dead relatives, or more often, people or objects that I didn't recognise. Nothing suspicious, these are known medical conditions. Not angels or ghosts (I don't think either exist), just imagination. The "builder" who made a botch job of renovating my neighbour's house, said it was haunted and he had seen the ghost. I suspect that the only spirits he saw were in a bottle!
I only wish that I could conjure up the spirits of my father, brother, and son. Since my beliefs don't run in that vein, I'll never experience the comfort that could bring.
 
Have you considered that these may simply be Hypnagogic hallucinations? I have experienced seeing dead relatives, or more often, people or objects that I didn't recognise. Nothing suspicious, these are known medical conditions. Not angels or ghosts (I don't think either exist), just imagination. The "builder" who made a botch job of renovating my neighbour's house, said it was haunted and he had seen the ghost. I suspect that the only spirits he saw were in a bottle!
I have definitely had at least three angel encounters and used to see ghosts from time to time in my old neighborhood. Some people are more sensitive to this than others.
 
David, thanks for sharing. As you say, your position is still theory, yet to be verified by others. Even if science can prove what that spark of life really is the real question will still be unsolved, only hypothesized. How did this 'spark' start? Random evolution, or divine intervention?
The below youtube link is an easy to understand presentation of how animalia brains evolved from electromagnetic forces you termed "spark":


In the below youtube presentation by PHD neuroscientist Selen Atasoy, beyond her TED Talks introduction, the section at 2:30 on sand standing wave cymatics demonstrates as an analogue, how the brain's electromagnetic fields are hypothesized per her 2016 paper to in like matter represent how the fields in animalia brain consciousness have evolved as an actual physical mechanism to control and focus our minds instead of dismissing them as mere epiphenomenon as dominant neuroscience had heretofore been promoting. This also reduces and limits ideas of philosophers that elevate "mind" as some kind of emergent process that has little to no physical basis.

Also at 12:00 she shows how on LSD total power and energy (field voltage) levels increase above normal homeostasis levels. The same was true using other psychedelics though interestingly did not mention cannabis that I expect would also show a somewhat greater energy field. A significance of that is that actual conscious perceptual experience on hallucigenics is a result of magnified brain wave fields on the gray matter neural substrate on which consciousness resides.


From a Selen Atasoy interview:

https://tamhunt.medium.com/what-can-the-brains-connectome-tell-us-about-consciousness-2e769c2d2b74
snippet:


(interviewer) Do you consider the connectome harmonics to be causal or only consequences of the underlying neuroanatomy and not themselves causal? That is, are the harmonics more like the epiphenomenal train whistle or they actually a part of the causal machinery of our consciousness?

(Selen) Based on our findings, I consider them to be a very effective mechanism that nature has chosen to create/represent our experience. What our findings say so far is; when our experience — the state of consciousness — changes, so does the composition of brain activity in terms of connectome harmonics. We can’t make any conclusion about them being the causal machinery of our consciousness, as we only study the neural correlates of consciousness at this stage. Yet intuitively, I would say that they are like the sound waves that emerge when we play a musical note in a musical instrument, and mathematically they are the equivalent of these waves adapted to the structure of the human brain. The same way the combination of these sound waves gives rise to what we experience as music, a particular combination of connectome harmonics gives rise to a pattern of brain activity that we experience as a particular state of consciousness.
 
There is evidence of a resurrection. The movie "The Case For Christ" documents how an atheist journalist Lee Strobel set out to prove that the resurrection did not occur and ended up becoming a Christian himself. As a Christian, I also hang my hat on the resurrection. But also, the change that occurred in my own life serves as proof. In addition, I see evidence of a creator in all the creation around me.
 
I don't believe in bigfoot but I do believe in God. Many believe science does not support the existence of either. :unsure: And they would be right.

So why do people believe what they do? Do you have beliefs not supported by science? Just curious. Be nice. No people bashing. OK?
Faith is itself evidence of things unseen. Whatever is seen is temporal, temporary, and usually deceptive, OK?
 
But since we don't know everything, one day science may prove things that some of us have believed for a long time and others will say they were right all along. Science just hadn't advanced enough at the time. It's a possibility.
Suppose science already proved that viruses do not cause sickness or illness ... That would be (and is) good news, right ?

How far does science have to "advance" to allow this to be no longer censored by all the 'big' authorities/agencies ?

The point simply is this - even though a lot has been shown by scientists that should help everyone immensely, it is not permitted.

By diligently searching for these things , concerning everything needful, you may find some answers / solutions to today's seeming immense problems, worldwide and personal, but be aware from the start that the opposition has over 95% of the world's wealth and power to try to prevent anyone from finding out.
 
Science didn't say that, Chic. Maybe religion said it, not sure about that either. But science only "says" things that can be verified empirically. The whole concept of "belief" is meaningless to those who rely on science to tell them the truth. At least, belief in the sense of religious faith. I only believe descriptions of the universe that can be proven.
I don't apply the word belief to scientific concepts. I prefer the word accept instead.
I accept well founded scientific propositions until the evidence proves them to be wrong or incomplete.
I refuse to believe that scientists are bought and paid for by nefarious influences to deceive the public.

Somewhat irrationally I believe that most human beings are basically good people.
 
I don't apply the word belief to scientific concepts. I prefer the word accept instead.
I accept well founded scientific propositions until the evidence proves them to be wrong or incomplete.
I refuse to believe that scientists are bought and paid for by nefarious influences to deceive the public.

Somewhat irrationally I believe that most human beings are basically good people.
When I mentioned the Sun revolving around the Earth as the "science" of the time, this was true. Galileo disagreed and insisted the Earth revolved around the Sun but he was vilified as the scientists of today are vilified for revealing truths that do not fit a narrative being pushed. So while individual people may be basically good, the powers that control the world have their own self interests and will cause a lot of harm to people to prevent truths from being discussed if those truths do not benefit THEM.
 
When I mentioned the Sun revolving around the Earth as the "science" of the time, this was true. Galileo disagreed and insisted the Earth revolved around the Sun but he was vilified as the scientists of today are vilified for revealing truths that do not fit a narrative being pushed. So while individual people may be basically good, the powers that control the world have their own self interests and will cause a lot of harm to people to prevent truths from being discussed if those truths do not benefit THEM.
Before Galileo's time religion and science, sometimes called natural philosophy, were intertwined. From Galileo onwards they began to separate but it took a long time for them to seen as separate disciplines of study. Theology, the study that underpins most religions, is essentially a form of philosophy. The sciences are underpinned by the scientific method which is pretty useless when it comes to philosophy and theology.

It is perfectly possible to have an interest in both science and theology. I am one of those people.
 


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