Censorship: As support for & against it continues to grow what's your opinion?

Paco Dennis said:
I don't see it. The people who have been retailed because of censorship have continued their ideas somewhere else where they can. To think that censorship is increasing with some kind of conspiracy of the deep state silencing the truth about their shenanigans' is old news. The wealthy have run campaigns for decades that silenced those with voting rights, but little power/money. Debate on, I take the side that the "Taz's" are exaggerating the current censorship because they have an agenda to reveal the hidden agendas of the deep state, and it's increasing control of our individual freedoms. No, that is not happening the way you imagine. Too many spy movies, and alternative life style videos. :)
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No agenda- just a very current topic. Appreciate your insight through.
 

Well I guess I will weigh in on this conversation.
As my better half said...we never left, just eased back. Focussing on other forums where open honest and truly free debate happens. Lively and feisty with respect.
Let me put it this way, in the anti/ pro abor$ion discussion in the other forum, I was never told that "a mans opinion is not welcome here" or 'men shouldn't be allowed to speak about this'. In fact several women really liked the fact that a man has an opinion about this charged topic.

In terms of censorship, the biggest purveyor of misinformation and disinformation is govts. Period. Even 'conspiracy theorists', right or left wingers, antifa, neo-nahtzees, everyone on this planet, has the right to think, speak and voice their opinion. No one, not govts, media, forums, employers and so on has the right to shut you up or shut you down. Hate speech is very different from free speech. The problem is govts have blurred that line and made essentially any speech hate speech. And in this ridiculous woke world we live in, no matter what you say, there will be someone highly offended by free speech!

Personally, so tired of this talk about censorship. Censorship is the tool of control, manipulation, tyrants and peole who have another agenda in mind.

Put it this way...if you are censored, it is because you are speaking the truth, close to the truth, or saying things that the establishment does not want to hear. The truth should not be feared. Once the truth is feared and censored, it ceases to exist. Truth then becomes what the govt says. Since we are not allowed to question it anymore. Sad. So many millions of soldiers, male and female, died, and continue to do so to pay the price for your freedom. Yet are shown a massive amount of disrespect-and an outright slap in the face-by this very agenda to silence free speech.

As for some mention that 'our' agenda is somehow to reveal a deeper agenda....yeah sure. Why not? As a soldier, I worked in many units during my time, but there was 2 units that required very high security clearance, and 1 was privvy to a select few. I can tell you, the information I saw and experienced would make your head spin in disbelief.

You think these action packed spy movies or action conspiracy movies are hollywood...they are not. Of course they are not the motorcycle race through the streets blowing shit up, the russian, iranian, american, british, chinese spys- typical character plots etc. But they are in fact real. The garbage that goes on behind the scenes rivals spy novels. The lies, deceit, corruption, murder, cover ups happen a lot, I mean a lot more than you know.

The govts of the world have secrets that if you knew...would all march on your politicians. Thats why they lie so hard and do so much to keep them hidden.

I saw footage and research on some of the tech knowledge they have, and it dated back to 1958. They are so far ahead its sick.

So yes...I try to make people wake up, think, research, ask questions and so forth. Because if you don't stand up and fight for your freedom, you will end up dying on your knees a slave.
 
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Someone posted that Germany is talking about leaving the EU on another thread. Many countries are talking about that. The reason is citizens of most of the world are sick of the maltreatment govts do to them. We are tired of censorship, lies, the blatant misinformation and disinformation. Then they have the audacity to say we are the cause of it. The violation of the core values of constitutions, bill of rights, whatever supreme law your country has is causing the problem. Govts don't listen to the people, don't answer questions, and disregard facts.
If you say to the govt, 'these stats prove unequivocally that purple mice eat all the grain before any one gets their share', they immediately brand you into some category that is derogatory or demeaning, or outright illegal. Maybe you are now a misogynist, racist, anti this or anti that. How about nope. If the facts are clear and 80 out of 100 do this, then its 80 out of 100 that do this! Nothing more to it. I don't care about the other 20. Somehow we focus on all the minor issues and let the big ones get out of control.
Their response, censorship, cancel you, or as we see now in some places, jail you. Like is there freedom left?
 
chic said:
I so believe in free speech. I dislike hate speech but honestly. I'd rather know who is saying / thinking what. :unsure:
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I agree that it's better to have the opportunity to hear both sides rather than only what's allowed.

Also, everyone's definition of "hate speech"-

I personally don't even like that term as it sounds so 1984ish...but that's the official agreed upon term...

-is very different.

it's also very challenging to even keep up with what is acceptable to say without offending or triggering one.

A good example is using the term "retarded" while depending on the context when using thus word it should not be an offensive word.

It was commonly used in my generation and prior to...well here's the official definition:

"Retardation is often used to describe problems in human mental development that result in a lack of intelligence or other kinds of physical or learning delays. Retardation can also indicate when something is kept from growing or developing fully."

Or, as in our time when we would poke fun at someone we would simply call them retarded, or if we didn't like an idea or rule we would also use the term "that's retarded"!

I still remember back about 10 years ago at work when I was first warned about using the term retarded when my coworker's and I were horsing around- when I said "that's just retarded" everyone around quietly warned me to not use thar word as a lady has a disabled child and she takes offense to that term...

While I can understand that it may offend her- she being a grown woman should know that I wasn't referring to her daughter- nor would I call any handicapped (whoops, can't say that word either!)...disabled person, especially a child retarded.

At what point does it get ridiculous...
 
Tazx's_better_half said:
I agree that it's better to have the opportunity to hear both sides rather than only what's allowed.

Also, everyone's definition of "hate speech"-

I personally don't even like that term as it sounds so 1984ish...but that's the official agreed upon term...

-is very different.

it's also very challenging to even keep up with what is acceptable to say without offending or triggering one.

A good example is using the term "retarded" while depending on the context when using thus word it should not be an offensive word.

It was commonly used in my generation and prior to...well here's the official definition:

"Retardation is often used to describe problems in human mental development that result in a lack of intelligence or other kinds of physical or learning delays. Retardation can also indicate when something is kept from growing or developing fully."

Or, as in our time when we would poke fun at someone we would simply call them retarded, or if we didn't like an idea or rule we would also use the term "that's retarded"!

I still remember back about 10 years ago at work when I was first warned about using the term retarded when my coworker's and I were horsing around- when I said "that's just retarded" everyone around quietly warned me to not use thar word as a lady has a disabled child and she takes offense to that term...

While I can understand that it may offend her- she being a grown woman should know that I wasn't referring to her daughter- nor would I call any handicapped (whoops, can't say that word either!)...disabled person, especially a child retarded.

At what point does it get ridiculous...
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Awesome post. Also you see on signs in the mountains of BC towns, 'please refrain from the use of engine retardation in built up areas'. Its an actual term in reference to diesel engines. So...are those signs offensive? I mean where do we draw the line?
There used to be something called -in context-. I guess that is lost as well!
 
Paco Dennis said:
Your here! Great. I am glad u didn't write the SF off. The censorship topic appears in almost every subject on here. Do you feel it has to do with the culture wars we now have over the internet?
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Hey 👋 - there are many reasons to discuss censorship- especially in the world today- and if one knows history and doesn't want to repeat parts of it understanding the tool of censorship is crucial.

I truly feel people are too sensitive and divided today and the use of extreme censorship in this woke world world will not be realized until it's too late.
 
In another thread some months ago I commented that hate is an emotion but not a crime. It belongs to psychology but not to criminology.

And the term 'hate speech' was coined to silence critics of the government. Meanwhile our government looks upon every opinion which differs with their politics as hate speech.

'Hate crime' is ridiculous in the same way.
 
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I don‘t see what there is to discuss. Freedom of speech is a basic tenet of the First Amendment of the Constitution. That said, there are unfortunately issues that cannot be discussed, such as the so called Hate Speech, without many of us going nuts. Anyone care to discuss racial differences in intelligence?
 
Tazx's_better_half said:
I agree that it's better to have the opportunity to hear both sides rather than only what's allowed.

Also, everyone's definition of "hate speech"-

I personally don't even like that term as it sounds so 1984ish...but that's the official agreed upon term...

-is very different.

it's also very challenging to even keep up with what is acceptable to say without offending or triggering one.

A good example is using the term "retarded" while depending on the context when using thus word it should not be an offensive word.

It was commonly used in my generation and prior to...well here's the official definition:

"Retardation is often used to describe problems in human mental development that result in a lack of intelligence or other kinds of physical or learning delays. Retardation can also indicate when something is kept from growing or developing fully."

Or, as in our time when we would poke fun at someone we would simply call them retarded, or if we didn't like an idea or rule we would also use the term "that's retarded"!

I still remember back about 10 years ago at work when I was first warned about using the term retarded when my coworker's and I were horsing around- when I said "that's just retarded" everyone around quietly warned me to not use thar word as a lady has a disabled child and she takes offense to that term...

While I can understand that it may offend her- she being a grown woman should know that I wasn't referring to her daughter- nor would I call any handicapped (whoops, can't say that word either!)...disabled person, especially a child retarded.

At what point does it get ridiculous...
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I consider hate speech, Your body, My choice.

That leaves no wiggle room. It's clear. It's definite.
 
George1959 said:
And the term 'hate speech' was coined to silence critics of the government. Meanwhile our government looks upon every opinion which differs with their politics as hate speech.
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maybe if by 'our government' you mean USA

other places have a clear legal definition of what constitutes hate speech and no, it isnt opinions which differ from current governments politics.
 
Yep. Raising straw men holds a special spot in the authoritarian's tool bag.

Schools once taught about these things, to help spot nefarious propaganda and convincing but specious arguments. Here's just one old instructional film:

PROPAGANDA For High School Kids In 1948! Would They Show This Today?
 
I’m not sure about the need for separate statutes for hate speech, hate crimes, etc…

The grizzly and brutal murder of Matthew Shepard, as an example, was most definitely a hate crime but aren’t the majority of murders or aggravated assaults, battery. etc… crimes where some form of hate enters into the motive.

IMO we would be better off to streamline the legal system by reducing the number of separate or specific categories of crime and use the sentencing phase to reflect the severity or brutality associated with the specific crime.
 
ElCastor said:
I don‘t see what there is to discuss. Freedom of speech is a basic tenet of the First Amendment of the Constitution. That said, there are unfortunately issues that cannot be disSucussed, such as the so called Hate Speech, without many of us going nuts. Anyone care to discuss racial differences in intelligence?
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Sure. Asians are smart. The rest of us not so much.
 
Tazx's_better_half said:
Words have power- in ancient times some even thought magical powers - and depending on when and who is speaking, words can be more powerful than a weapon or as peaceful as prayer.

Censorship is as old as language.

Throughout history, many gifted speakers have used their talent of public speaking for good, and some not so good.

Think of the well-known philosophers and gifted speakers of the past- Jesus- a prophetic philosopher, Socrates, Marx, Hitler and present day...hard to think of an actual present day influential philosopher...

Jordan Peterson comes to my mind first, though some would refer to him as a pseudo-philosopher, I think he's brilliant.

Controversial podcast & alternative news hosts Joe Rogan, Alex Jones, and recently joining the gang of silenced speakers -Tucker Carlson, to name just a few.

All have been heavily censored and completely silenced- or in modern times "canceled" and surprisingly...many people believe that in certain situations censorship of expression and ideas makes sense and is necessary - their reasoning, if expression puts people in danger or threatens society (or them...just saying Karen's are real) or a nation that it is acceptable.

Let me use an example that most would likely agree that their reasoning has some merit- Adolf Hitler - he used his gift of public speaking and a well organized and influential propaganda campaign to discredit his opposition and critics and rally support for his plan to rid Europe of Jews, Gypsies, and other people in minority groups ushering in a dark dictatorship.

His regime cost millions of people their lives (and please, let's not turn this discussion into a debate on the holocaust - or I will censor you 😉) It's just that his infamous campaign is a historical reference and even today there is a ban that was issued by the post-war government against expression that promoted the Nazi Party. In fact, you cannot even discuss conflicting information about the holocaust for fear of imprisonment.

Other people disagree and believe that censorship is dangerous and poses a bigger problem than any expression or beliefs itself can cause. Their reasoning, censorship restricts the flow of ideas and deprives people of information needed to maintain an open and just society.

Well-known and strong opponent of censorship Benjamin Franklin- we all know this icon of American Patriotism and author who famously summed up censorship in just a few words, wrote: "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

Today- as the world continually spirals into a whirlwind of chaos, "misinformation and disinformation" and the rise of heavy censorship is rearing it's ugly head in the worlds democratic countries- some would say in a very Orwellian manner - I thought this would make for an interesting topic.

Hopefully one in which we can discuss as adults and not have it degrade into useless arguments trying to convince others that their opinion is the right opinion. Laws and constitutions aside..see how I did that- let's have a worthy and intellectual conversation about censorship.

Have I set the tone?

To begin this debate- let's clarify the exact definition of censorship according to the Oxford Dictionary:

"Any regime or context in which the content of what is publically expressed, exhibited, published, broadcast, or otherwise distributed is regulated or in which the circulation of information is controlled."

https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095558166#:~:text=1.,circulation of information is controlled.

Now, let's begin...

ohhh, this is going to be a fun one!
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I don't have time to reply to all of your post, so apologies.

But you mention, in order, Jordon Peterson, Joe Rogan, and Alex Jones. And it's my opinion, and I accept only mine in context, that they're all kooks. They stroll the line between sanity and madness, selling their souls to the devil for money (and I don't even believe in souls). They're major contributors to the dumbing down of our society, and never hearing (or giving credence) in what they have to say is a bonus, not a hindrance.

IMO YMMV.

In a world where we're drowning in information and opinions, they represent some of the least interesting or useful. IMO.
 
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