Child, 2, kills self with gun from mom's purse, police say

The Inspector

The Inspector

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Child, 2, kills self with gun from mom's purse, police say

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-self-inflicted-gunshot-police-say/83323128/


INDIANAPOLIS — A 2-year-old boy died Wednesday after he shot himself with a gun he found in his mother's purse on Indianapolis' northwest side, police said.
The mother "had momentarily stepped away," police said, when her toddler climbed to a kitchen counter, removed a pistol from his mother's purse and shot himself about 9 p.m.
Officers arrived and found the boy with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the shoulder. The child was taken to Riley Hospital for Children at IU Health in critical condition, where he later died.

I am sure she felt a little safer having that gun in her purse
 

The Inspector said:
Child, 2, kills self with gun from mom's purse, police say

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-self-inflicted-gunshot-police-say/83323128/


INDIANAPOLIS — A 2-year-old boy died Wednesday after he shot himself with a gun he found in his mother's purse on Indianapolis' northwest side, police said.
The mother "had momentarily stepped away," police said, when her toddler climbed to a kitchen counter, removed a pistol from his mother's purse and shot himself about 9 p.m.
Officers arrived and found the boy with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the shoulder. The child was taken to Riley Hospital for Children at IU Health in critical condition, where he later died.

I am sure she felt a little safer having that gun in her purse
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It has become a real darn shame that so many locations in the US have become unsafe for normal families to live without some sort of protection. It would be nice for folks to once again feel safe without needing some sort of defensive methods at hand.
 
BlunderWoman said:
Very tragic. I'm glad someone has invented the biometric trigger guard. I wish they would make it mandatory for gun owners soon.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...rt-guns-dont-solve-what-were-trying-to-solve/
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BW, this is what many of us from outside the US cannot understand. We are not against guns per se. They are a tool with a purpose but most tools have inbuilt safety mechanisms designed to minimise accidents. There are also regulations about proper storage and licenses required to operate dangerous machinery.

However, whenever even the mildest suggestions are put forward to make guns safer or to make sure that they are not in the hands of irresponsible people, there is such an outcry that you would think that the very fabric of US society was about to be torn apart. We look on in amazement and shake our heads because we just don't get it.
 
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Warrigal said:
BW, this is what many of us from outside the US cannot understand. We are not against guns per se. They are a tool with a purpose but most tools have inbuilt safety mechanisms designed to minimise accidents. There are also regulations about proper storage and licenses required to operate dangerous machinery.

However, whenever even the mildest suggestions are put forward to make guns safer or to make sure that they are not in the hands of irresponsible people, there is such an outcry that you would think that the very fabric of US society was about to be torn apart. We look on in amazement and shake our heads because we just don't get it.
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The first right to have weapons legally at home is in our Constitution.

The honest folks do follow the law but the criminal ones don't seem to care they are breaking the laws. Those folks are why some folks do get permission to carry weapons outside of the home. A second right to carry a weapon.

The criminal folks don't care about those granted efforts so the threats to our lives just gets worse every day. Deaths by the criminals is not abating at all. Some areas are so bad that even the police don't like going into those areas at all.

Some day the US will have to change and make it unbearable for the criminal mind sets to exist.
 
Warrigal said:
The child in the OP wasn't killed by the gun of a criminal.
Does it hurt less if your child is killed by a criminal or by your own gun?
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Just more of your twisted logic. It was not the gun that killed that child. It was the unfortunate person that left the weapon within the victims reach. Guns are inanimate and do not kill without some outside effort. That is a fact.

Until the US does change the Constitution and the laws, guns are legal and allowed. Till the criminals are punished for using guns illegally there will be a high order of deaths by guns.
 
BobF said:
Just more of your twisted logic. It was not the gun that killed that child. It was the unfortunate person that left the weapon within the victims reach. Guns are inanimate and do not kill without some outside effort. That is a fact.

Until the US does change the Constitution and the laws, guns are legal and allowed. Till the criminals are punished for using guns illegally there will be a high order of deaths by guns.
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And we'll continue to have opportunities to talk about idiots that leave their guns where kids can get them.
 
Debby said:
And we'll continue to have opportunities to talk about idiots that leave their guns where kids can get them.
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Your comments about the person that you called an idiot is definitely wrong. She was able to get to purchase the gun. She also was able to get a 'carry permit'. So she is not some idiot at all. She definitely put the purse on the counter and walked from the room. It is definitely an oversight as the child somehow climbed up and opened her purse. Was he going for the gun? Or just being a nosy kid and being busy while left alone? We don't know.

Now you out of town folks think you are so cute but your countries also have problems that many folks in the US think are stupid. In UK there is the case of some one that used a weapon to defend his property. The intruder died and this person has been charged with murder. I think this was posted on this forum. In the US that would be considered ridiculous. But not a point we should challenge as that apparently is the law over there. Just as having a gun in the US is legal and should be allowed without nasty comments. Don't like the US then it is easy to just look to other places or ideas. Don't ever come here to visit if we are so terrible. I consider this anti guns stuff by out of country folks to be nothing but unnecessary trash talk.
 
BobF said:
Your comments about the person that you called an idiot is definitely wrong. She was able to get to purchase the gun. She also was able to get a 'carry permit'. So she is not some idiot at all. She definitely put the purse on the counter and walked from the room. It is definitely an oversight as the child somehow climbed up and opened her purse. Was he going for the gun? Or just being a nosy kid and being busy while left alone? We don't know.

Now you out of town folks think you are so cute but your countries also have problems that many folks in the US think are stupid. In UK there is the case of some one that used a weapon to defend his property. The intruder died and this person has been charged with murder. I think this was posted on this forum. In the US that would be considered ridiculous. But not a point we should challenge as that apparently is the law over there. Just as having a gun in the US is legal and should be allowed without nasty comments. Don't like the US then it is easy to just look to other places or ideas. Don't ever come here to visit if we are so terrible. I consider this anti guns stuff by out of country folks to be nothing but unnecessary trash talk.
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Sorry if I've offended you Bob but seriously? Leaving a gun where it is in the reach of children? That is what should offend you. I never said anything about gun laws, or rules or beefing up the regulations or changing your Constitution. And the fact that she can fill in all the questionnaires and didn't have a felony conviction or whatever it takes to preclude her getting a gun doesn't change the fact that she left a gun where a little child could get it and now that child is dead. In my books, that counts as an idiot.

And you're right, every country has their own particular problems, but this is about a woman who was negligent enough that her baby is dead. If she had left that kid in a hot car, you'd be all wound up that she was stupid and irresponsible for leaving the kid in the car to die and yet because 'your' precious gun rights are involved, I become the bad guy because I simply stated the obvious.
 
BobF said:
Just more of your twisted logic. It was not the gun that killed that child. It was the unfortunate person that left the weapon within the victims reach. Guns are inanimate and do not kill without some outside effort. That is a fact.

Until the US does change the Constitution and the laws, guns are legal and allowed. Till the criminals are punished for using guns illegally there will be a high order of deaths by guns.
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Bobf, I don't know how many times I have to say this. I am not arguing for the banning of all guns. I am arguing for better gun safety of legal guns. I repeat my earlier post with further comments in blue

BW, this is what many of us from outside the US cannot understand. We are not against guns per se. They are a tool with a purpose but most tools have inbuilt safety mechanisms designed to minimise accidents. There are also regulations about proper storage and licenses required to operate dangerous machinery.

How is it that an infant can access and fire a gun? In the 21st century can't something be done to make failsafe mechanisms to prevent that. My car screams at me if I forget to remove the ignition key or turn off the headlights. Hubby's car automatically turns off the headlights when he leaves the car. Surely hand guns could be modified to provide safety catches that are always on unless the owner deliberately disables them.

However, whenever even the mildest suggestions are put forward to make guns safer or to make sure that they are not in the hands of irresponsible people, there is such an outcry that you would think that the very fabric of US society was about to be torn apart. We look on in amazement and shake our heads because we just don't get it.

Now, instead of better suggestions than mine for gun safety, I expect to hear a whole bunch of reasons why it is unreasonable, unconstitutional, unnecessary or useless to even try to make guns less dangerous to innocent lives. Either that, or complete silence which is the result of heads firmly buried in the sand.
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I think the idea of better safety mechanisms would be excellent too Warrigal if for no reason other than to protect children from themselves and each other (and the whims of adults?). Hey here's another safety thing that works in our cars and thats the bell that rings incessantly if you don't put your seat belt on. That must work when there's weight in the seat and the belt isn't clicked in, so surely they can figure out something that stops a gun from firing if it's held certain way (not level perhaps) or the hand holding it isn't large enough to touch several key spots on it?
 
Now you are thinking, Debby. My car does that. It even goes off if I place heavy groceries on the front passenger seat. It assumes that someone is sitting there without wearing a seat belt. It has caused me to modify my behaviour and I now make sure I put them in the boot or on the back seat.
 
Warrigal said:
Bobf, I don't know how many times I have to say this. I am not arguing for the banning of all guns. I am arguing for better gun safety of legal guns. I repeat my earlier post with further comments in blue
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Live by the laws of your land and let the US live by the laws of our land. Should the US masses choose to change our laws we will do so. Your posting is just not taking into account that the US does have ways for making and changing the rules and laws and all this out of country complaining and griping is doing nothing to make us copy your countries ways.

Take care of Australia's problems and let the US take care of problems as we see them. This is sort of like the US President in UK telling them how to act and then the UK press telling how they feel about the US President. You are just as out of order as our President is and was in the UK visit.

This also fits for any out of country folks whining about our ways. Develop that special safety way and sell it to the gun manufacturers around the world.
 
BobF said:
Live by the laws of your land and let the US live by the laws of our land. Should the US masses choose to change our laws we will do so. Your posting is just not taking into account that the US does have ways for making and changing the rules and laws and all this out of country complaining and griping is doing nothing to make us copy your countries ways.

Take care of Australia's problems and let the US take care of problems as we see them. This is sort of like the US President in UK telling them how to act and then the UK press telling how they feel about the US President. You are just as out of order as our President is and was in the UK visit.

This also fits for any out of country folks whining about our ways. Develop that special safety way and sell it to the gun manufacturers around the world.
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Calm down Bob. You're going to give yourself a heart attack. Good grief, we're talking and if you want to discuss Australian ways or Canadian ways of doing things, I'm pretty sure Warrigal will be more than willing to discuss it as will I. Neither of us mentioned changing your laws or anything like that, we're talking about the stupidity of A single mom who left her loaded gun on the counter when there is a two year old in the house! How many mothers go nuts trying to baby proof their homes when they have toddlers and this one leaves lethal weapons lying around! And we're talking about a gun industry that doesn't appear to have the will or common sense to figure out how to prevent these sorts of tragedies seeing as how some people are too ?????? to figure it out for themselves.

And I'm betting that mother is sitting there at her kitchen table this morning (or whenever this happened), planning a funeral for her baby, drenched in a flood of tears and personal recriminations and asking herself also how she could be so stupid. I know I'd certainly be wracked with guilt for the rest of my life if I was in her place and the stupid gun would be gone. Heck, when my youngest had her first job and rushed out the door late at night to go to it, she fell over the little knee high fence I'd temporarily put up to keep my dogs from running out to the street and I still flinch every time I remember it and mentally apologize for not having told her it was there! This situation, I'd never get over it. In fact I'd have to move because every time I looked at that counter where I had put my purse with the gun inside it, I'd see my baby and the blood.........yep, the best reason ever to move.
 
Debby, I have known Warrigal for years now and for years she was well above putting down others. Especially the US as there are so many other countries that are much worse than the US in many ways. What has happened to make Warrigal decide to choose the US as her favorite target I will never know. All this name calling and finger pointing is doing no good at all. It just puts you in to the same place of revile as our President got himself into in the UK yesterday.

Now for the two of you, there are plenty of things in your own countries that need fixed for the good of your country. Certainly more important for you than this inability of the US to change our ways as our Constitution must be changed first in order to allow the US to just change because some out of country folks think we should.
 
Bob, it is true that we have conversed for years now and you know my passions pretty well. I staunchly defend Australia's quarantine laws for the very good reason that our native environment is unique and has suffered too many incursions by animals and plants brought here by well meaning settlers. Because Australia is the driest continent if you exclude Antarctica, I oppose any development that puts our underground water systems at risk. I recall that you did not understand why Di and I, political opposites, were so united in our opposition to coal seam gas extraction. You probably have to be a native born Aussie to understand why we are passionate about some issues.

When it comes to the subject of gun deaths in America, there is very little point raising the subject with people other than Americans. I am not a native born American and I am trying to understand the mindset of a people who hold an 18th century law above the lives of so many children. I just don't get it although I do now realise that talking about laws is fruitless. That is why I have begun conversations about gun safety. If gun ownership is sacrosanct, then surely it is reasonable to explore ways that it might be made safer?

How is this putting people down? A difference of opinion does not necessarily mean hostility or contempt. I have long admired the spirit of the American people but I sometimes find it very puzzling. I honestly don't get some things - one of these is the common US belief that guns make them safer. I'm not alone here.
 
Warrigal said:
How is this putting people down? A difference of opinion does not necessarily mean hostility or contempt. I have long admired the spirit of the American people but I sometimes find it very puzzling. I honestly don't get some things - one of these is the common US belief that guns make them safer. I'm not alone here.
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You may not be alone with that idea but you certainly are of the minority.

The guns are of the majority of the peoples wants and wishes. The anti gun folks are a minority at best. Politically the gun lovers are of both major political parties so it is not just a political thing at all. Some day it may all be changed. But someday means that I probably won't be around to see our Constitution trashed and the US turned into some political managed country with darn little voice from the population leading the way.

Since the early 1900's that has been the way this country has been driven by our politicians. They want to change it into something different where the President operates as if a King. Our current President has operated this way since first elected. For his efforts we are now $19+ trillion in debt and rising every day, driven up from the $7.5 trillion debt of Clinton and Bush years.

We are a gathering of states that decided to have a federal government to help all oversee our needs for defenses and guidance for our laws. So our Constitution was created and it has proven to be quite strong and capable. We our still in our original creation and many countries are well into their second, third, or more descriptions and controls. I see no reason for the US to fall away into such marginal federal leaderships and we should not have to as long as we keep our states strong and the federal control of all things diminished as it should be.
 
BobF said:
Debby, I have known Warrigal for years now and for years she was well above putting down others. Especially the US as there are so many other countries that are much worse than the US in many ways. What has happened to make Warrigal decide to choose the US as her favorite target I will never know. All this name calling and finger pointing is doing no good at all. It just puts you in to the same place of revile as our President got himself into in the UK yesterday.

Now for the two of you, there are plenty of things in your own countries that need fixed for the good of your country. Certainly more important for you than this inability of the US to change our ways as our Constitution must be changed first in order to allow the US to just change because some out of country folks think we should.
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I think what you are seeing Bob is that more and more people are not relying on Fox or CNN or CBC or CTV or any of the mainstream media as their sole source of news. There are innumerable news sites out there that aren't beholden to the small group of ultra rich who now control (by ownership) what the people hear, and because they aren't beholden, they are speaking out and digging and doing research that 'journalists' have quit doing. Here in Canada especially, if you listen to our MSM, you can immediately tell that the different stations are all reading off the same Reuters news feeds instead of digging for the truth like they used to. Journalism in mainstream media (MSM) is kind of dead in my opinion.

As a result of being able to access more real facts (with documentation/photos/videos) we're hearing the why's and wherefores and hearing the 'other guys' side like never before instead of being limited to what the governments put out there to further their agenda's.

And you're right, there are lots of things in each country that need to be fixed, no argument there. I can't speak for Warrigal, but I firmly believe that sometimes outsiders have a much clearer view of things because we don't have an inherent bias clouding our vision. America wants to continually pat itself on the back with exclamations of being 'exceptional' (remember Obama's speech?), but your CIA has a history of being the catalyst in humanitarian tragedies around the globe, your government puts out information that is either incomplete or even untrue.......you've made yourself the target for scepticism and criticism.

And while you think that your problems are only yours to deal with, I would say that you are very wrong on that. When America catches a cold, the rest of us start sneezing too. You are one of the largest economies in the world, your dollar and your corporations (remember Wall Streets role in the 2008 economic melt down that had the globe teetering on the edge of a financial abyss?) affect our economies, your government puts sanctions on other countries to ruin them, your choice of 'friends' causes pain and suffering for others (Israel/Palestine, Saudi Arabia/Yemen, terrorists/Syria....) need I say more on why the world is both interested and concerned. The list of ways that America affects the world is long and troublesome, as well as good.
 
I went to an RCMP site and this is what our police have to say about 'your' guns Bob. '
  • The United States is the primary source for smuggled firearms or firearms parts entering Canada, due in part to its close proximity, differences in gun control legislation, and a large firearms manufacturing base.....There continues to be significant cross-border firearms movement, particularly in British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and the Atlantic region, where many of the seizures are concentrated.
    • In British Columbia, a large number of firearms originate in the United States, with a high proportion coming from Washington State.
    • In Alberta, most of these firearms come from Washington State, Idaho and California.
    • In Ontario, the I-75 corridor is the main supply vein for illegal firearms from Florida, Georgia, Ohio and Michigan.
    • In Quebec, the following states are key sources for illegal firearms: Vermont, New Hampshire and Maryland.
    • There is an increasing number of illegal firearms reported being smuggled across the New Brunswick-Maine border, entering the Atlantic region.
    Most firearms smuggled from the United States are high quality, semi-automatic handguns.'
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ci-rc/reports-rapports/traf/index-eng.htm

A further look at a Canadian Justice department website says the following:

Several U.S. studies have documented the relative ease with which criminals, including juvenile offenders, can illegally obtain firearms (Decker et al., 1996; Sheley, 1994; 1994a; Sheley and Brewer, 1995; Sheley and Wright, 1993; 1995). Approximately 68 percent of offenders who were interviewed soon after their arrest in a major U.S. city indicated that they could obtain a firearm in less than a month; 21 percent thought they could get one in a day or less. Only seven percent of offenders said they could not get a firearm (Decker et al., 1996: 38). Offenders who admitting to being involved in dealing drugs or in gangs reported even greater ease of access to firearms (Ibidem).....Stolen firearms seem to be plentiful on the black market. In the United States, researchers estimate that approximately half a million firearms are stolen annually (Cook et al., 1995). Based on the national survey on private ownership and use of firearms conducted in 1994, Cook and Ludwig estimated that criminals stole one or more firearms from 0.9 percent of all households containing firearms in the United States in that year. They estimated that 593,000 firearms were stolen; 211,000 of which were handguns (Cook and Ludwig, 1997:7).Based on the limited information available in Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom, it would seem that thefts of firearms most often occur in private residences (e.g., Cook and Ludwig, 1997; Corkery, 1994)...... The 1997 Annual Report on Organized Crime by the Criminal Intelligence Service Canada suggests that the United States is the source of most legal and illegal firearms in Canada. According to that report, "it is relatively easy for Canadians to acquire firearms in the United States either through an American accomplice or ‘straw’ purchaser, or directly by themselves. http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-dt98_4/p9.html

So Bob, while you might like to think that 'your' guns are only your business, apparently our RCMP, our Justice Department and CSIS would strongly disagree.
 
One thing you have missed is that in the US those guns that were registered by honest owners of the guns are not used in crimes. Only about 3%, or up to 10%, are taken and used in crimes. The rest are safely in the hands of the registrants.

Additionally there are somehow thousands of unregistered guns available for use by those wanting to do criminal things.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

So there is no real reason to not allow the honest folks from have access to guns at all. They are not the problem if over 90% to 97% of their purchases are kept in safe and legal means. Higher levels of registered and kept secure would be desired but thefts can and do happen.

If Canada does know of all these illegal locations for transactions I hope they do tell the US criminal catching folks exactly who and how it happens so things can be corrected.

Here is how some buying guns could try to identify status of guns existence. If stolen, don't buy it.

http://www.hotgunz.com/
 

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