Climate change reaching unprecedented levels as records tumble

Packerjohn said:
Sure, you can argue "until the cows come home" about climate change:
1. It's man made.
2. It's a natural cycle

The argument is purely academic. The fact of climate change is more important than what is causing it. The fact is that the world is way, way over populated and many people are going to die sooner or later due to climate change. Some will die due to heat; others due to floods and many will die due to lack of food. Many will die in wars that will be fought over the need for land to grow food.

Some people say that if we stop using plastic bags, it's a good start to save the planet. Everyone is yelling that "We're Green" and that is suppose to sell whatever they are selling. Facts are now coming out that most recycle programs do not work. We can no longer ship our garbage from Canada to India. They don't want it.

Nothing stays the same forever and climate change is a change that is going to change the world. Oh, you might not like it or you might want to stop it but it's going to happen, one way or another.
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Absolutely agree with you. But, in some unseen or unpredictable way the human destiny may be all the better for it.
 
ohioboy said:
During previous Ice ages there were no humans on the planet, that is a natural cycle. Today's climate conditions are man made.
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Nah, and if fact I believe Lou Holtz was coaching at Notre Dame when the last one ended. ;)

Ice Age

From the link:

When Were the Ices Ages and Why Are They Called That?


The Ice Ages began 2.4 million years ago and lasted until 11,500 years ago. During this time, the earth’s climate repeatedly changed between very cold periods, during which glaciers covered large parts of the world (see map below), and very warm periods during which many of the glaciers melted. The cold periods are called glacials (ice covering) and the warm periods are called interglacials.


maps showing ice coverage during Ice Age and today


There were at least 17 cycles between glacial and interglacial periods. The glacial periods lasted longer than the interglacial periods. The last glacial period began about 100,000 years ago and lasted until 25,000 years ago. Today we are in a warm interglacial period.
 
ohioboy said:
During previous Ice ages there were no humans on the planet, that is a natural cycle. Today's climate conditions are man made.
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That makes zero sense. Natural cycles didn't stop because of human existence and behavior.

It's very likely the earth is in a warming cycle and humans are exacerbating it.
 
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Nothing new.

1969, Nobel Prize-winning German physician and scientist Paul Ehrlich: "...unless we are extremely lucky, everybody will disappear in a cloud of blue steam in 20 years."

1970, Boston Globe, quoting scientists: "Air pollution may obliterate the sun and cause a new ice age in the first third of the next century."

1972, Brown University science department: "We have a deep concern for the future of the world...falls within the rank of processes which produced the last ice age..."

1974, based on a Columbia University study, a headline in The Globe: "Spy Satellites Show New Ice Age is Coming Fast"

Late 1980s: the term "Ice Age" is replaced with "Global Warming".

1989, A senior UN environmental official announces "Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000."

1989, Climate expert, Jim Hanson, told reporters: "Within 20 or 30 years the West Side Highway along the Hudson River (in Manhattan) will be under water."

2000, The Independent (newspaper) quoting an "expert": "Snow is starting to disappear from our lives. Children simply aren't going to know what snow is."

2004, The Guardian predicted" "Major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a Siberian climate by the year 2020."

2018, Greta Thunberg angrily proclaims "the world is on fire," a bunch of us are gonna die, and children have no future if world leaders don't take immediate action about climate change.

July-Sept 2023, Frank Murr's A/C runs 24/7.

Current day, Frank Murr doesn't sweat in his sweats even while his heater is on.
 
Murrmurr said:
Nothing new.

1969, Nobel Prize-winning German physician and scientist Paul Ehrlich: "...unless we are extremely lucky, everybody will disappear in a cloud of blue steam in 20 years."

1970, Boston Globe, quoting scientists: "Air pollution may obliterate the sun and cause a new ice age in the first third of the next century."

1972, Brown University science department: "We have a deep concern for the future of the world...falls within the rank of processes which produced the last ice age..."

1974, based on a Columbia University study, a headline in The Globe: "Spy Satellites Show New Ice Age is Coming Fast"

Late 1980s: the term "Ice Age" is replaced with "Global Warming".

1989, A senior UN environmental official announces "Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000."

1989, Climate expert, Jim Hanson, told reporters: "Within 20 or 30 years the West Side Highway along the Hudson River (in Manhattan) will be under water."

2000, The Independent (newspaper) quoting an "expert": "Snow is starting to disappear from our lives. Children simply aren't going to know what snow is."

2004, The Guardian predicted" "Major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a Siberian climate by the year 2020."

2018, Greta Thunberg angrily proclaims "the world is on fire," a bunch of us are gonna die, and children have no future if world leaders don't take immediate action about climate change.

July-Sept 2023, Frank Murr's A/C runs 24/7.

Current day, Frank Murr doesn't sweat in his sweats even while his heater is on.
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I wanted to use the wow emoticon until I got to the last two lines which really did make me laugh out loud.
 
Myrtle said:
There is a big political aspect to the global warming hysteria. Follow the money.
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Precisely, thank you. The Fossil Fuel industry and the politician's that shill for them(shilling for big $$) have successfully created a false narrative and created the conspiracy theory mentality in order to create doubt, cripple unity of purpose, in dealing with the coming climate catastrophe.
 
Wayne said:
Growing up here it got hot in the summer months and cooler in the winter oddly it still does the same.
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Well that's weird. ;)

I've noticed that here in the Sacramento Valley all the seasons (here, we have like 2 of them) have started about a month later than they used to.

I can't deny change because I see it and feel it, but I do not believe the change is catastrophic.

I am very glad it's being studied by scientists, but I don't trust using computer simulations to prediction the future even when the most excellent scientists in this field use them for that purpose.
 
Myrtle said:
There is a big political aspect to the global warming hysteria. Follow the money.
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Nathan said:
Precisely, thank you. The Fossil Fuel industry and the politician's that shill for them(shilling for big $$) have successfully created a false narrative and created the conspiracy theory mentality in order to create doubt, cripple unity of purpose, in dealing with the coming climate catastrophe.
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Hey Nathan, play fair. You knew what I meant and it wasn't that. We should be selling oil on the world market instead of enabling Iran to sell it.

We've spent billions, trillions on global warming only to get crappy predictions that it's getting worse. Where did all that money go? And why are we getting that prediction now? Because it's time to make more deals. Money, more money is going to be funneled to China now with the latest deal. Wonder what the kickback will be on that?

Murrmurr said:
I sort-of did. See post #31.
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Yes! (y)
 
Don M. said:
Climate Change IS occurring, and there is little we can do to stop it. If every nation suddenly ceased using fossil fuels, and began planting millions of trees, we Might slow it down...fat chance of that happening. Instead, the latter half of this century will see mass migrations to places like Canada and Siberia. Society Will be turned upside down, and there will be a huge decline in human population...either by starvation, or warfare.
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I thought so too at one time, that northern countries like Canada would be blessed and all our snowbirds could stay home once Earth has warmed enough! Ah, palm trees in Nova Scotia! Trouble is, this change is so darn unpredictable. Along with the inevitable gradual warming come floods and major storms and droughts and extreme temperature changes from one week to the next, as well as huge wildfires. We've seen it all during the past year. Canada won't be your dream destination. At least it doesn't look like it at the moment!
 
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ohioboy said:
Cite any scientific article indicating the Earth is in a specific natural warming cycle, as opposed to man creating the bulk of it.
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Even scientists don't know the true extent of natural vs manmade because there's no one ironclad standard for data analysis of human impact nor is there a firm understanding of natural cycles but those concerns are not even important on the practical level. The one variable we can control is the one we need to be working on without an either/or mindset of what is causing warming.
 
Murrmurr said:
Nothing new.

1969, Nobel Prize-winning German physician and scientist Paul Ehrlich: "...unless we are extremely lucky, everybody will disappear in a cloud of blue steam in 20 years."

1970, Boston Globe, quoting scientists: "Air pollution may obliterate the sun and cause a new ice age in the first third of the next century."

1972, Brown University science department: "We have a deep concern for the future of the world...falls within the rank of processes which produced the last ice age..."

1974, based on a Columbia University study, a headline in The Globe: "Spy Satellites Show New Ice Age is Coming Fast"

Late 1980s: the term "Ice Age" is replaced with "Global Warming".

1989, A senior UN environmental official announces "Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000."

1989, Climate expert, Jim Hanson, told reporters: "Within 20 or 30 years the West Side Highway along the Hudson River (in Manhattan) will be under water."

2000, The Independent (newspaper) quoting an "expert": "Snow is starting to disappear from our lives. Children simply aren't going to know what snow is."

2004, The Guardian predicted" "Major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a Siberian climate by the year 2020."

2018, Greta Thunberg angrily proclaims "the world is on fire," a bunch of us are gonna die, and children have no future if world leaders don't take immediate action about climate change.

July-Sept 2023, Frank Murr's A/C runs 24/7.

Current day, Frank Murr doesn't sweat in his sweats even while his heater is on.
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@Murrmurr: Thanks for shaking up my certainties. I need that now and then. I think at times, like today, when I read your post that I have too much faith in scientific pronouncements!
 
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Myrtle said:
Hey Nathan, play fair. You knew what I meant and it wasn't that. We should be selling oil on the world market instead of enabling Iran to sell it.
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Sure, I knew what you meant, but it was a good opportunity the stress my point, that Fossil Fuel companies and crooked politicians are obfuscating the whole climate change issue, misleading and creating doubt over solid science, which is telling mankind that a man-made crisis is brewing, and that the business as usual approach needs to change.

Myrtle said:
We've spent billions, trillions on global warming only to get crappy predictions that it's getting worse.
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What have we spent on global warming? Carbon credits? that's just some on-paper accounting hocus pocus to let gross polluters off the hook, for their responsibility. There hasn't been any real shift in technologies away from fossil fuel usage. Solar and wind are emerging technologies in their own right, and energy producers are making money there as well.

Myrtle said:
Where did all that money go?
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The usual suspects- the crooked politicians and fossil fuel interests. ;)
 
We learn, We made fire, we made the wheel, followed by lots of stuff with wheels & powered by fire. We moved from Caves to High places. The Fires and Wheels followed us. Fireworks, firearms, fire trucks and Fire Storms, Planes, trains Autos and 18 Wheelers. Sure we bought into them, what do you want, Tails and Tree limbs. Its their fault not ours. A reduction from Billions to Millions would help. Lonely would be a good place.
The Cockroach will survive it all. I saw the other day that Coal Cinders have high concentrations of Uranium in them. So mining millions of tons of Coal Cinders can power the next phase of disordered Chaos that all of the above has caused?

We can fix it or Fax it up. Putting stuff off is hereditary.

Another thought is Wind Turbines. If you rob nature of wind power, will it naturally blow harder to get where it has to go? You know millions of big propellers generating 1000's of megawatts of electricity, will the heat up due to the wind slowdowns just spin the props Offs? Of course, it means predictable weather patterns, something Meteorologists have been trying to understand for a couple hundred years. haha Remember the awful storms the Wind Jammers went thru in past Sea Stories. Did Light houses fix the problem? Or did the Odd persons in them light it up. The Dark Ages and the Industial revolution got us where we are. Sure 150,000 take offs a day spread all the disorder across the Globe. What did you expect a tropical paradise?

You know wear a hard hat, duck, keep your head down, check the forecasted development before leaving the place often could be wise.
 
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Nathan said:
Sure, I knew what you meant, but it was a good opportunity the stress my point, that Fossil Fuel companies and crooked politicians are obfuscating the whole climate change issue, misleading and creating doubt over solid science, which is telling mankind that a man-made crisis is brewing, and that the business as usual approach needs to change.


What have we spent on global warming? Carbon credits? that's just some on-paper accounting hocus pocus to let gross polluters off the hook, for their responsibility. There hasn't been any real shift in technologies away from fossil fuel usage. Solar and wind are emerging technologies in their own right, and energy producers are making money there as well.


The usual suspects- the crooked politicians and fossil fuel interests. ;)
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Ok Nathan, sometimes payback can be hell. :ROFLMAO:
 
Guys we have nothing to worry about. Some Dictator or most will nuke us and problems solved. Cockroach's working for him wins theething.
 
Nathan said:
Precisely, thank you. The Fossil Fuel industry and the politician's that shill for them(shilling for big $$) have successfully created a false narrative and created the conspiracy theory mentality in order to create doubt, cripple unity of purpose, in dealing with the coming climate catastrophe.
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It's true there's billions going into and coming from fossil fuel industry and relatively little being invested in solving the problem of carbon emission. The problem is not combustion, it's the release of carbon dioxide. Not many people understand the difference, but fortunately, there's a bunch of scientists and researchers who do, and they know there is no way to reach "net zero" by 2050.

"Net Zero by 2050" - politicians have no idea what it is but they love saying it. Net Zero can't be achieved without rapidly building a global capacity to actively remove carbon dioxide from the environment, primarily the job of forests and flora and currents. Net Zero only makes sense in combination with a total emissions target; annual emissions combined with an integral of time when annual contributions reach zero; the world over. And on its own, Net Zero tells us nothing about expected temperatures.

source:
 

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