Common Sense Atheism

Della said:
The average Pastor salary in the United States is $101,196.
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Is that per month or is that a yearly figure? Most pastors do though, wear suits mostly and those aren't cheap. I know because I've bought a few in my years. They need to be dry cleaned and they go out of fashion so soon, necessitating the need to buy new ones. Then of course there are shoes and neckties that need to be replaced, the pastor's wife shouldn't dress as a ragamuffin, because they often are seen together, so that's an extra expense. And I imagine with kneeling to pray so often, that pants don't hold up as long as jackets. So, maybe $101,196 is a little low sounding, now that I think about it. And I've only considered the fashion aspect so far. I don't think that I've ever known of any average pastors driving an old beat up car. Those cost a bit these days. Or I have faith that they do. Wowie zowie! Being faithful sure must take a lot of money. Now I see why churches don't want to be taxed. Thank god I'm an atheist, even if it means that I'm subject to taxes.
 

Pepper said:
IDK. Hey, it's a living, and he's an entertainer. You should watch that Gemstone series on HBO.
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Yes, he's an "entertainer" (Joel Osteen) but most of his audience doesn't realize that. They're sacrificing their well being to make his super well. With Brad Pitt, you realize that you're paying for fantasy. Big difference, to me.
 
JaniceM said:
Past and present, I come from a "religiously diverse" family. That's been the case for at least 4 generations.

So, to answer your questions:
1. I don't care what anyone believes, whether they're 'everyday people' like you described, or even family/relatives.
2. I came to my beliefs on my own- was raised with nothing.
3. I can only speak for myself, but re: 'strong feelings'- individuals who want to shove their beliefs down other people's throats, individuals who harm others and 'credit' their 'religions' for it, and individuals who show flat-out disrespect ranging from condescending to ridicule. Otherwise, like I said, I don't care what anyone believes, or if they believe in nothing at all, it's their business not mine.
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Most of the time beliefs or lack of them, never comes up with people I meet. I just do what I do and they do as they've always done, life goes on. But when people ask what you believe and your belief isn't what they think it should be, well, yeah, that's a whole other kettle of fish, now isn't it? I just don't think that the faithful should get special treatment or cosideration for something they can only profess and not prove. Religion came about when the first con man met up with the first fool that had money in his pocket. Soon the fool's pockets were empty and the con man was the beneficiary. I'm convinced, I have faith that it happened that a way and no one can tell me any different. Thanks fofr sharing, I appreciate you caring enough and taking time to think things out. Critical thinking is alive and well, there in your neck of the woods I'd say.
 
JaniceM said:
And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
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Kenneth Copeland in the video I posted has an answer for that. I don't buy it but maybe that because I lack faith that he's not lying.
 
Irwin said:
Compare that to the average teacher salary, which is about $60,000.
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Well, they're teaching stuff that they say will last you beyond this lifetime. You probably won't need to know algebra if there's a hereafter and you get there so whatever Mrs Smith is teaching doesn't have the shelf-life of what Preacher Paul might show you.

Preacher and teacher ... They sound similar but the pay scale is as different as night and day.
 
Yes, it seems high to me, but teachers usually have less education than senior pastors.

The pastor at my husband's Methodist church makes $60, 000 (he preaches in jeans and sweaters) and the pastor at my Episcopalian makes $80,000 but he has a doctorate, ( he preaches in a long white robe.) Chris P's clothing costs don't seem to be a big factor.

I'm just saying the average pastor has nothing in common with the televangelists Chris P. is talking about. It's like complaining about the big money cooks make when you're using Martha Stewart as a reference.

Joel Osteen is closer to a motivational speaker than a pastor. He teaches a "prosperity gospel" that is not strictly Biblical and considered controversial in most mainline churches.
 
Chris P Bacon said:
Preacher and teacher ... They sound similar but the pay scale is as different as night and day.
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Why compare those two jobs? Why not compare to a systems analyst who makes $110,000? Or compare to actors and baseball players?

Christian pastors do what they're hired for. They preach sermons that are meant to be based on the teachings of Jesus and conduct the rest of the service. They act as administrators for the church itself, overseeing Sunday School programs and music. They visit hospitals and home bound people almost daily and are on call 24 hours a day for crisis management. They're usually active in community outreach actions like food providers and homeless shelters.

Best of all for atheists, they're not asked to support these pastors or churches at all, unlike teachers, schools and police departments that we all pay taxes for, the churches are supported by the congregation.

What do you really care if some of us are willing to support these places? I don't complain about all the money flowing into the casinos or the high cost of Super Bowl tickets. If someone wants to do that it's their business.
 
The money that flows into casinos is taxed. The money that goes into churches is not. Casinos and sports actually help to keep taxes no higher than they already are. It's just common sense that no tax paid by churches must be paid by other means be those means casinos or the religious and nonreligious alike.
 
I don't live in Texas so it doesn't affect me but one preacher, just by calling his residence a "parsonage" is said to have avoided paying $150,000 in taxes. Now somewhere in Texas, I would imagine that other citizens will be expected to make up that lost revenue somehow but it won't come from Kenneth Copeland. Seems like clergy do have more education than educators. And he's only one of who knows how many in Texas and across the country.

Here's a link to the article - https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-richest-pastor-avoids-150-124716761.html
 
Speaking from experience only.
I knew someone who was born an atheist. One day he said he wanted to join the Mormons, having been visited by their elders. I don't know how they convinced him but he was at the low point of his life. I said to him I wouldn't stop him, since he knew my stance on Mormonism, he was an adult, it was his choice. I told him that he should get out whenever things started to not make sense to him. I believe he's still with them to this day.

People want to believe in something. They want to feel like they belong. They want to be noticed. They want to feel special.
I think religions work the same way as fandoms. We see Twitch streamers getting rich off of donations alone. Fans pay to have their messages shown on the live feed for everybody to see. They pay to have their questions, that aren't even guaranteed to be answered by the streamer, answered. As long as they feel like the person on the other side of the screen cares.

Some choose to pick and choose what they want to believe and ignore what they don't. Others just go all the way, taking in everything while finding every excuse in the world for when something doesn't logically make sense or doesn't benefit anyone in a meaningful way.
 
mellowyellow said:
I feel sorry for Christians who see this and have not been given the special gift of the holy spirit. What if a good Christian soul cannot speak in tongues, no matter how long or how hard they try. Do they feel crushed that God hasn't blessed them too? Often wondered about this, hope someone knows.
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Maybe there is no speaking in tongues. Could that be possible? Could people just be faking the ability to do so? What about people who practice long and hard to learn to levitate, yet somehow, they never can quite do it, no matter how much they pray or have faith that they can. Is it possible that some of these things are scams to deceive the ones who choose to not think and let their faith be their guide? To me, maybe, likely so. To others, I’m sure they can tell you better than I but I can’t speak in tongues or out of tongues for them. I hear forked tongues.
 
Chris P Bacon said:
It's just common sense that no tax paid by churches must be paid by other means be those means casinos or the religious and nonreligious alike.
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This statement makes no sense to me at all. No one else is paying taxes for the church. There just is no tax. Every member of the congregation is probably a tax payer of some kind. The church pays for all it's own utilities, upkeep, janitor service, lawn care, just like everyone else. It's only it's tiny profit, usually given to charitable causes, that isn't taxed, and no casinos aren't paying taxes for the church.
RFW said:
People want to believe in something. They want to feel like they belong. They want to be noticed. They want to feel special.
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Now you're just being insulting.
 
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