Could You Support Simplifying The U.S. Tax Code?

L

Lon

Well-known Member
Location
Central California
Our Tax Code by every ones opinion, is expensive to administer, too complex @ 75,000 pages and does favor the extremely wealthy. I would personally favor some kind of a flat tax with the elimination of many of the present deductions plus a consumption tax on practically every thing except medical expenses, food, rents, utilities. Revamping the Tax Code has been talked about by both parties for years and so far nothing has been done. I will support a candidate that I think could win the presidency and demonstrates a sound plan that would benefit all Americans, not just the rich or the poor.
 

Flat tax is just another way to sell "equality" when in fact it is the best deal in the world for the wealthy and horribly unfair to the majority of Americans. Not "equal" at all. We need to eliminate the tax cuts to the wealthy that GW Bush passed and that republicans have refused to cancel. I have posted here several times an example of a family earning $40K living with a 15% flat tax and how much his expenditures are and how that wealthy taxpayer ends up paying so little and gives up nothing.
 
Jim----------There are many ways to administer a flat tax that does not benefit just the rich. You are thinking too much about some of the Repub candidate s comments. Try thinking outside the box.
 

The tax code is written by wealthy attorneys and put into law by wealthy legislators. It favors the rich, hurts the less fortunate, and cripples the middle class. The current tax code needs torn up and tossed away. There is a much simpler means of supporting the needs of our government. But, since those benefitting most for the complicated tax code are "in charge" is won't happen.

If today's tax code were done away with, thousands of IRS employees would be laid off. One would think this is something the Pubs would champion. Instead, since the tax code favors corporations and CEO's... it will not be changed.

The better solution would be a consumption tax... with no exemptions. Most economists suggest we would only need about a 10 to 12% consumption tax and our entire income tax could be done away with. I'd trade handing over 20% of everything I earn to the Federal Government for having to pay 12% on the items I buy!!!!
If a business purchases a private jet, company autos, or a copy machine... they would pay the consumption tax and there would be no "deduction" as a business expense. If a church purchased new hymnals, they would pay the consumption tax. No matter what is purchased... goods not labor... would have the consumption tax added. Groceries would cost 10% more, but most would have way more than that left of their paycheck since there would be no income tax withheld.
 
no seriously ten percent across the board, you make ten million you pay one million you make ten bucks you pay one ...fair and simple no deductions you nothing just ten percent. imo
 
I am 110% in favor of a complete overhaul of our present tax codes. They are an abomination! Things like a "Flat Tax" or a VAT, Value Added Tax, similar to what some European nations use, present a huge burden on those with lower incomes. Rather than those kinds of measures, I think we should have a Graduated Income Tax with virtually No deductions allowed. Those on the lower end of the income scales should be required to pay a "token" tax of perhaps $10 a year...just to say that they participated. Then, as incomes go up, a rate of 10%, 15%, and perhaps as high as 30%, for the wealthy, should be assessed. Presently, the highest bracket sits at almost 40%, but very few in that bracket pay anywhere near that amount. With all the tax dodges and loopholes in our current codes, the higher income types pay somewhere between 15 to 18%....hardly any more than a solid Middle Income worker has to pay. If we had a Fair and Sensible tax code, it could probably be written on a half dozen pages...instead of 10's of thousands.

Then, we have the Corporate Cheats. Companies, like Apple, base their "headquarters" in Ireland...and keep a staff of a couple dozen people there...just so they can escape paying any corporate US. taxes. That certainly should be stopped.

99% of the people would probably agree that we have an atrocious tax code, and would like to see it revamped. However, the 1% who Really run this country, and their "bought and paid for" Puppets in Washington, will fight any such proposals at every turn.
 
Should start with the corporate tax loopholes. If the corporations put more into the system right off the bat taxes were be more equal if not lower. And many would wind up staying here and employ people who could be taxed.
 
Lon said:
Jim----------There are many ways to administer a flat tax that does not benefit just the rich. You are thinking too much about some of the Repub candidate s comments. Try thinking outside the box.
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I can't think of any way to administer a flat tax that would in anyway correct or even improve the extreme income inequality which has been steadily increasing in this country since the 1970's. I think we should be considering a tax on wealth.
 
Don M. said:
I am 110% in favor of a complete overhaul of our present tax codes. They are an abomination! Things like a "Flat Tax" or a VAT, Value Added Tax, similar to what some European nations use, present a huge burden on those with lower incomes. Rather than those kinds of measures, I think we should have a Graduated Income Tax with virtually No deductions allowed. Those on the lower end of the income scales should be required to pay a "token" tax of perhaps $10 a year...just to say that they participated. Then, as incomes go up, a rate of 10%, 15%, and perhaps as high as 30%, for the wealthy, should be assessed. Presently, the highest bracket sits at almost 40%, but very few in that bracket pay anywhere near that amount. With all the tax dodges and loopholes in our current codes, the higher income types pay somewhere between 15 to 18%....hardly any more than a solid Middle Income worker has to pay. If we had a Fair and Sensible tax code, it could probably be written on a half dozen pages...instead of 10's of thousands.

Then, we have the Corporate Cheats. Companies, like Apple, base their "headquarters" in Ireland...and keep a staff of a couple dozen people there...just so they can escape paying any corporate US. taxes. That certainly should be stopped.

99% of the people would probably agree that we have an atrocious tax code, and would like to see it revamped. However, the 1% who Really run this country, and their "bought and paid for" Puppets in Washington, will fight any such proposals at every turn.
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You make some excellent points. As you have intimated, and other posters suggested, we really need to find a way of doing away with corporate welfare... corporate tax loopholes... and those same subsidies/loopholes for the wealthy. Therein lies the problem. Thanks to today's technology, we've become a global economy. Raise corporate taxes and they just move headquarters to Canada or off-shore. That way they don't pay any tax here. All revenue goes to their headquarters via digital transactions. Likewise with the ultra-wealthy. They will set up a personal corporation in a foreign land. Contracts will be negotiated such that most of their salary/bonus/compensation will be paid to that corporation. We can remove "loopholes", but we cannot change technology that allows circumventing of domestic payroll compensation.
I know firms require company vehicles to do business and those are a business expense. Why, though, should the executives of that firm be allowed to drive $80,000 luxury vehicles as company cars and those be charged off as business expense? We've just allowed the current tax code to create an entire industry dedicated to finding ways to mitigate tax liability.
The Koch brothers will spend millions to protect their billions from taxation, while their own employees use volunteer tax preparers at the local library because they can't afford the cost of an H&R Block type firm to help them get all that is due them.
 
A flat tax is a regressive idea to force the poor to pay even more.. while giving the wealthy a HUGE tax break... It's a new way to increase enormous income inequality we already have.. Let's use some easy numbers..

A poor person making only $10,000 pays NO income tax in our present tax code..

A person making $1,000,000 under present tax laws pays approximately 35% or $350,000. He will have to make ends meet on a measley $650,000

UNFAIR????

NOW.. Lets make EVERYONE pay a flat tax of 10%,,

The poor person who paid no tax on $10,000 now pays $1,000 in tax.. So his income is decreased to $9,000

The person making $1,000,000 now pays $100,000.. and his income is then INCREASED to $900,000..

The Millionaire is given a tax cut of $250,000.. and MORE of the money is moved to the top.. while the poor and middle class get a tax INCREASE..

FAIR? How can anyone see this as a good idea??
 
QS says: A person making $1,000,000 under present tax laws pays approximately 35% or $350,000. He will have to make ends meet on a measley $650,000

UNFAIR???? Sure that is unfair, particularly when he might be paying 30% of that $650,000 in alimony to his ex liberal spouse and another 30% keeping his kids in private schools and college. Be real here, after all, a guys gotta live, right? Who are we to decide how well someone else should live and what is an acceptable amount of money for them to live on.
 
Lon said:
QS says: A person making $1,000,000 under present tax laws pays approximately 35% or $350,000. He will have to make ends meet on a measley $650,000

UNFAIR???? Sure that is unfair, particularly when he might be paying 30% of that $650,000 in alimony to his ex liberal spouse and another 30% keeping his kids in private schools and college. Be real here, after all, a guys gotta live, right? Who are we to decide how well someone else should live and what is an acceptable amount of money for them to live on.
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OMG!! I am hoping you are attempting satire here. Surely you cannot be serious.
 
AZ Jim said:
Just wow!!
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So the single mom... trying to feed her kids while making poverty wages should pay MORE taxes.. while the rich bastard with the alimony payment gets a huge tax break...

Who are we to decide how well someone else should live and what is an acceptable amount of money for them to live on.
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BUT it's perfectly OK for the poor to pay more.. and live on even LESS..

and THIS folks is exactly why I hate Conservative ideology.


 
QuickSilver said:
So the single mom... trying to feed her kids while making poverty wages should pay MORE taxes.. while the rich bastard with the alimony payment gets a huge tax break...



BUT it's perfectly OK for the poor to pay more.. and live on even LESS..

and THIS folks is exactly why I hate Conservative ideology.


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Shades of Marie Antoinette who said "let them eat cake"! As I recall that cost her the place she wore here stings of pearl. KARMA is not just a rumor.
 
QuickSilver said:
A flat tax is a regressive idea to force the poor to pay even more.. while giving the wealthy a HUGE tax break... It's a new way to increase enormous income inequality we already have.. Let's use some easy numbers..

A poor person making only $10,000 pays NO income tax in our present tax code..

A person making $1,000,000 under present tax laws pays approximately 35% or $350,000. He will have to make ends meet on a measley $650,000

UNFAIR????

NOW.. Lets make EVERYONE pay a flat tax of 10%,,

The poor person who paid no tax on $10,000 now pays $1,000 in tax.. So his income is decreased to $9,000

The person making $1,000,000 now pays $100,000.. and his income is then INCREASED to $900,000..

The Millionaire is given a tax cut of $250,000.. and MORE of the money is moved to the top.. while the poor and middle class get a tax INCREASE..

FAIR? How can anyone see this as a good idea??
Click to expand...

The flat tax is fair in a theoretical sense but in real world dollars no. A move to flax tax would have to include the reduction of write offs and loop holes along with new income brackets. To me the best and simplest way to start is cutting off corporate loop holes. There is no way a GE or Goldman Sachs should be paying 0-1% in taxes or filing a 50,000 page tax return to basically rationalize their ridiculously low number after laundering their income through those corporate loopholes.

But on the other hand using real world dollars or spending power logic the guy making 100K a year should have to pay 10 dollars for something the person making 10K a year spent a dollar for at the dollar store. Which turns into a wealth redistribution debate. More money is more money no matter how you look at it.

Should add that "fair" and "simpler" will turnout to be two different things with taxes.
 
QuickSilver said:
So the single mom... trying to feed her kids while making poverty wages should pay MORE taxes.. while the rich bastard with the alimony payment gets a huge tax break...



BUT it's perfectly OK for the poor to pay more.. and live on even LESS..

and THIS folks is exactly why I hate Conservative ideology.


Click to expand...
Jim you are so imbued with liberal ideology I don't believe you really understand conservative ideology. BTW I am a Independent that voted for Obama in both elections but if he was able to run again there is no way I would vote for him. So there!!And I sure as hell would not vote for Hillary. Confused???
 
The flat tax argument (along with abortion, illegal immigration,war on terrorism, etc) gets thrust into the national dialogue every election year, by(guess who) the right wing candidates.

Not-to-worry, when the election is over these causes will be carefully folded up and stored away until next time.
 
Lon said:
Jim you are so imbued with liberal ideology I don't believe you really understand conservative ideology. BTW I am a Independent that voted for Obama in both elections but if he was able to run again there is no way I would vote for him. So there!!And I sure as hell would not vote for Hillary. Confused???
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NO.... NOT confused.... because I don't believe a word of what you say.
 
One of these days, the whole tax thing is going to be uber-simplified. We will all receive a large envelope from the IRS. The instructions will say:

1. How much did you make last year? $_____________

2. Put it in the envelope.

3. We'll send back what we don't use.

Thank you.
 

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