Debt and the Economy

[hawkdon]

I've always thought about this...say a guy makes $10000.00 a
week, bring home pay way above my brain, and a guy makes
100. bucks a week, bring home pay maybe 80 bucks...both go
to the grocer for loaf of bread, who is still gonna have a great
big bunch of money to spend on other items????

 

[VaughanJB]

I've always thought about this...say a guy makes $10000.00 a
week, bring home pay way above my brain, and a guy makes
100. bucks a week, bring home pay maybe 80 bucks...both go
to the grocer for loaf of bread, who is still gonna have a great
big bunch of money to spend on other items????

Sales Tax is regressive. It's unfair, and as a proportion of income, always punishes the lowest paid the most, and the highest paid the least.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I've always thought about this...say a guy makes $10000.00 a
week, bring home pay way above my brain, and a guy makes
100. bucks a week, bring home pay maybe 80 bucks...both go
to the grocer for loaf of bread, who is still gonna have a great
big bunch of money to spend on other items????

I hear ya!

My question is when does it become unfair and who decides how much income or wealth is too much?

I’ve been the person that has had to choose between buying a loaf of bread or a gallon of gas.

I was able to gradually increase my value in the workplace so that I could choose both and eventually buy what I needed/wanted.

I don’t have the answers but it always makes me nervous when we get the government involved.

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” - Ronald Reagan

 

[rgp]

Those are numbers in the US.


We'll agree to disagree on this. Do they create opportunities? Yes. But in proportion to what they sock away for themselves it's nowhere near enough. Trickle down economics doesn't work. For example, Elon Musk has "a Tesla (TSLA) pay plan as CEO valued at $101.4 billion (as of Dec. 2, 2024), 33 times larger than the previous record".

Now some will say he deserves it, he started the company. For me, there's something seriously wrong with a society that allows wage constraint for the workers, and 100bn for the CEO.

The rich should pay their fair due. That is enshrined in law. None of them pay what they truly owe due to a) Having good lawyers/accountants; b) Being able to pay (erm, lobby) politicians to not tighten the law.

To clarify further: "In 2024, Elon Musk's company, Tesla, reported $2.3 billion in U.S. income and paid zero in federal income taxes. Over the previous three years, Tesla paid a total of $48 million in federal taxes on $10.8 billion of U.S. income, resulting in a three-year average tax rate of only 0.4 percent."

I await the trickle.

It really doesn't matter. If he filed correctly and lawfully, then he only needs to pay what the IRS instructs .

If it all seems unfair too you ? Then vote for the person/candidate that promises to reconstruct the tax tables.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

If I had any real knowledge of what the economy will do, I'd invest in the appropriate stocks, and make a killing. There's always some economist, who is predicting total collapse, and I guess someday he'll be right.
As far as national debt goes, governments are not like people. Governments can exist for millennia. They can take advantage of inflation over significant time to repay debt.

 

[Eupher]

@MACKTEXAS, I have a sneaking suspicion that much of the manufacturing that is supposed to be coming back to the US is going to be automated.
Of course, it's just speculation one my part, (and a friend's idea) but with the huge advances in the last decade or so in both robotics and AI, I kinda' think that it would be foolish for new built factories and such not to be... from an investors POV... idk.

Was wondering what others might think about that idea?

There has always been fearmongering about technology's advance and how it's going to trash out the working stiff.

So far, the working stiff has managed to deal with the technology shift and even contribute to it.

That said, Sillycon Valley lost me when they issued Windows 95. I was perfectly fine with DOS 3.3.

Other than the massive debt, feckless politicians, and the lack of political will to deal with said debt, I'm not worried at all. As others have already stated, the younger workers are going to have the bear the brunt of the turds on Capitol Hill, complete with issuing Depends and multiple rolls of TP.

/sarc -- except for my first two sentences.

 

[VaughanJB]

It really doesn't matter. If he filed correctly and lawfully, then he only needs to pay what the IRS instructs .

If it all seems unfair too you ? Then vote for the person/candidate that promises to reconstruct the tax tables.

Of course it matters. The people in control of writing the laws are the same ones who have the money. You are I cannot legislate to suit ourselves - they can.

 

[rgp]

Of course it matters. The people in control of writing the laws are the same ones who have the money. You are I cannot legislate to suit ourselves - they can.

That is exactly what I'm saying. He is not in charge of or writing the tax laws. So again if he filed by the rule in place , and paid the tax required of him, then he did nothing illegal.

So lets find better politicians to look at the tax laws and make the necessary changes.

 

[VaughanJB]

That is exactly what I'm saying. He is not in charge of or writing the tax laws. So again if he filed by the rule in place , and paid the tax required of him, then he did nothing illegal.

So lets find better politicians to look at the tax laws and make the necessary changes.

That's not to say they don't exploit loopholes, and avoid paying as much tax as possible. It sometimes comes down to the intent of the law, rather than the precise text.

My point is simply that some suggest the rich pay enough tax. I say, if they paid as much tax as a percentage of their earnings, I'd be happy with that - but they clearly don't. Keep in mind, the US government spends $170bn per year on so called corporate welfare programs. Who do you think benefits the most from that?