Deism makes sense to me

Mr. Ed

Mr. Ed

Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
Location
Central NY
de·ism /ˈdē-izəm/ : deism: the belief that God made a perfect machine when he made the universe and it runs on its own without further assistance from God; God does not actively guide or influence events in the world

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Deism is the belief in a creator, but not revealed religion. Through reason and science we can explore the wonders of God's creation, but we cannot discover the whole truth of the Creator himself. It is within our ideals to be for the greater good, for progress and enlightenment, but not to judge others who have done us no wrong.

There is no church. This is a place for higher learning and community through reverence of the natural world.This
 

Ah, It doesn't matter what you believe. People change beliefs several times during their lives.
You can believe Donald Duck is the master of the Multiverse, if you want.
The one second of experiencing God at the end of your life, when your last breath is taken,
all will be answered for you and absolute astonishment will encompass you.
Everyone is on their own path to God consciousness, enlightenment, (whatever you choose
to call the soul's evolution). Some paths, (as this one) might be a little slower, but that's all right.

I used to warn people not to be careful of what they believe but it really doesn't matter.
You can hate God or curse him; doesn't matter. Earth is one of the lowliest worlds in existence
and ignorance is expected from it's inhabitants. The mind is in the relative and the body is temporal.
Only the soul of mankind lives into eternity. The multiverse is constantly expanding and
God is everywhere. Everything is alive because the Being is alive.

From the angels:
"God, as you choose to call him, is a being in the seat of the highest heaven who directs all movement
of all that exists.
The one God is all intelligence, all love, all wisdom and all energy, all that is in all spectrum."
(from my book: "Angels explain God and the new Spirituality"). This speaks only of the personal God,
but there is also an impersonal God alive in everything.
 
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The universe as we can observe is a hugely violent place. Stars are born and die sometimes violently. Whole galaxies collide with unimaginable power, and this god person is sitting back and enjoying the fireworks. Meanwhile on this lowly planet, children are being born with terrible disabilities or terminal diseases. And this god person just sits back and says "come and grovel at my feet and maybe I'll see you OK when you die"

No thanks.
 
Well @Pepper, This is a mutual admiration because the things you have mentioned in your posts reveal the unfathomable horrific events you've been through in your life. How you have emerged from these to become a confident, intelligent, strong, woman; not a victim, astonishes me!
 
All kinds of imaginative nonsense on this subject is uttered all the time, every day, all over the world. People believe what they have been programmed to believe by their upbringing, or by someone later in life, who was persuasive enough to make them believe that what they are saying is the truth.

But the real truth is, nobody really has any answers or any proof. We just don't know. And maybe, our brains are in a primitive enough state so that we can't know. No religious "leader" has any more inside information than the rest of us have. No religious text contains any verifiable truth, it's all just stories and conjecture, because down through history, people have always been wondering what's going on. It's human nature to want answers. And some of us find answers in religious texts that satisfy our emotional needs. Some of us say there are no religious answers available to us at this stage of human development.

There are many (probably hundreds) of different religions in the world. Most of them involve some revealed "truth," handed down through the centuries. Most of them require acceptance of those stories, many of them involve miracles or fictitious embellishments of things that may have really happened. (A flood, sure, floods happen all the time, unfortunately. But Noah and the ark?)

About Deism, I could go along with it if it said we can explore the universe through reason and science, and that very possibly there is a "creator" behind it. But when the word "God" comes in, we are back to traditional religion. For those who believe that there is a "God" who made a perfect machine, etc., do they accept that that God could be a mathematical equation or a scientific principle?

I think Deism is a midpoint between traditional religious faith (believing something because it's in a "sacred text") and agnosticism. It's certainly a step up from the older, more traditional religions.
 
I am an Agnostic: For me, the presence of a god can not be proven or disproven. It can't be known because there is insufficient verifiably factual scientific data.

I once thought black holes were just the stuff of science fiction. Then, I became aware of why scientists theorized their existence. Now, with recent scientific evidence, I believe in the existence of black holes.

Religiousness is "a belief in, obedience to, and reverence for a god, gods, or similar superhuman power." It is a mental construct. It is based on the unseen, the invisible, the unknowable - or the creative imaginings - described through various texts at various times in various places.

I am uncomfortable with the notion of an all-powerful being who would allow such extreme suffering and not intervene. So, while I can't know for a fact that there is such a being, I would not respect such a being regardless.
 
I have less of a problem with Deism, because it allows room for reality to be observed and new knowledge about the universe to emerge, without having Deist toes stepped on. It does not try to negate science, but makes room for it. The one problem with Deism is that there is no more evidence for it than there is Christianity or Islam. I suppose one could argue that Deism is less improbable, but there is still no logical reason to support it.

Those who need such a god, might be drawn to Pantheism, which says that the universe and all reality is God. As such, there can be no conflict with reason. While it makes no unsupportable claims whatsoever, it's just giving the name "God" to all of reality. I once asked the president of the National Pantheism Movement (or something like that. I can't remember the name of the outfit), what it was he had to gain by calling the universe and reality God, without making any extraordinary claims about it. He replied, "I just have a god shaped hole in my heart that I need to fill." It was at that point, I wrote the whole philosophy off.
 
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https://www.reasonablefaith.org/que...ity-of-fine-tuning/deism-and-christian-theism

Yeah, I think you are, Paul. But I’m not discouraged! The Grand Canyon separating Deism from atheism is vastly greater than the gulch between Deism and Christian theism....

So why don’t you do what most New Testament scholars do: set aside the theological conviction that the Gospels are inspired and look at them as ordinary historical documents about the life of this remarkable man Jesus of Nazareth? ...

So what do we learn about the historical Jesus when we examine these documents critically, as we would other ancient biographical works? As I have sought to show in my published work, we discover a man who had a radical self-consciousness of being the unique Son of God and eschatological Son of Man prophesied by the prophet Daniel. Moreover, and most surprisingly, we have very good grounds for affirming that this man, after being executed by crucifixion, was buried in a tomb by a named individual, that his tomb was then found empty by a group of his women followers, that various individuals and groups on multiple occasions and under different circumstances saw appearances of him alive, and that his disciples, against every predisposition to the contrary, suddenly and sincerely began to proclaim that God had raised him from the dead. I can think of no better explanation for these facts than the one the disciples gave. But if God has raised Jesus from the dead, then we have very good grounds for thinking that the God of Israel revealed by Jesus of Nazareth is the true God.

None of this depends on divine inspiration. Whether, having come to believe in the claims of the religion revealed by Jesus, you take the logically subsequent step of regarding the Gospels as divinely inspired is a secondary question. As you consider whether the Creator and Designer of the world has revealed Himself in some way that we can know Him more fully, why not look into Jesus?
 
JustDave said:
I can't remember the name of the outfit), what it was he had to gain by calling the universe and reality God, without making any extraordinary claims about it. He replied, "I just have a god shaped hole in my heart that I need to fill." It was at that point, I wrote the whole philosophy off.
Click to expand...
People who are happy and blessed,
humble and alive,
seeking and loving truth, healed or seeking healing, have a hunger for the truth, a hunger and need for the Creator Himself that can only be satisfied by Him -not religion-, as shown in perfect harmony with all Scripture, such as >

Ecclesiastes 3:10-12
Amplified Bible​

I have seen the task which God has given to the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.

God Set Eternity in the Heart of Man​

He has made everything beautiful and appropriate in its time. He has also planted eternity [a sense of divine purpose]

in the human heart [a mysterious longing which nothing under the sun can satisfy, except God]—

yet man cannot find out (comprehend, grasp) what God has done (His overall plan) from the beginning to the end.
I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good as long as they live;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ecc+3:10-12&version=AMP
 
a hunger for the truth, a hunger and need for the Creator Himself that can only be satisfied by Him -not religion-, as shown in perfect harmony with all Scripture, such as >

'I have seen the task which God has given to the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.'
'He has made everything beautiful andappropriate in its time. He has also planted eternity [a sense of divine purpose]
in the human heart [a mysterious longing which nothing under the sun can satisfy, except God]—'

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ecc+3:10-12&version=AMP
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A Pantheist does not have to make those claims. It may be "in perfect harmony with all Scripture" but it could be nothing more than a coincidence. A broken clock tells the right time twice a day.

He has also planted eternity [a sense of divine purpose]
in the human heart [a mysterious longing which nothing under the sun can satisfy, except God]—'
Click to expand...
Not in everyone's heart. It's only in those who believe their heart is the center of knowledge. Even as a metaphor, it does not hold true as a universal experience. It's a theist belief, and I'll bet that not all theists even agree.
 
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Judycat said:
I kind of like the idea of Taoism, an ancient Chinese philosophy and religion that instructs believers on how to exist in harmony with the universe.
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I studied that one years and years ago in Comparative Religion. I don't remember much about it, except that the instructor jokingly said that some experts called it the "Dark Religion." I also remember thinking it had much in common with the other religions. All had elements that caused me to think, "I could be that." But I was struggling to make sense out of the spiritual back then, so I was impressionable. Today, I believe anything that doesn't find it necessary conjure up spirits to live in reality is a step in the right direction.
 
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2 TIMOTHY 4:4
KJ21
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned toward fables.
ASV
and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.
AMP
and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable].
 
Just Jeff said:
People who are happy and blessed,
humble and alive,
seeking and loving truth, healed or seeking healing, have a hunger for the truth, a hunger and need for the Creator Himself that can only be satisfied by Him -not religion-, as shown in perfect harmony with all Scripture, such as >

Ecclesiastes 3:10-12​

Amplified Bible​

I have seen the task which God has given to the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.

God Set Eternity in the Heart of Man​

He has made everything beautiful and appropriate in its time. He has also planted eternity [a sense of divine purpose]

in the human heart [a mysterious longing which nothing under the sun can satisfy, except God]—

yet man cannot find out (comprehend, grasp) what God has done (His overall plan) from the beginning to the end.
I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good as long as they live;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ecc+3:10-12&version=AMP
Click to expand...
I was unfamiliar with the Amplified Bible and a quick search led me to think its expanding definitions might be a good thing. Then I saw this potential problem:

What is wrong with the Amplified Bible?

The Amplified Bible has been viewed as being guilty of "illegitimate totality transfer" by giving multiple potential meanings of a word in a particular passage. Readers may incorrectly conclude that multiple meanings of a word may apply regardless of the one which context would suggest.
Amplified Bible - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Amplified_Bible
 
Capt Lightning said:
The universe as we can observe is a hugely violent place. Stars are born and die sometimes violently. Whole galaxies collide with unimaginable power, and this god person is sitting back and enjoying the fireworks. Meanwhile on this lowly planet, children are being born with terrible disabilities or terminal diseases. And this god person just sits back and says "come and grovel at my feet and maybe I'll see you OK when you die"

No thanks.
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If I understand Uncle Vinny's post Satan has dominion over the earth. So God must be pretty much in a hands off mood. Can't blame God for events he isn't involved in.
 
Pepper said:
We're all getting so stupid we can't read the almost original, which is easy enough to do. The writers of these new versions have an agenda & selling it to dumb audiences, which is the main of their audience anyway.
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What triggered my button was how different folks will derive different meanings, especially the snake-kissing religious groups. I hope to find the passage that they weirdly attributed their strange religious practices to. And, of course, there have been many injuries and deaths. /-;

and to put this thread back on track with apologies:

Deism:

"belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind."
 
Em in Ohio said:
I was unfamiliar with the Amplified Bible and a quick search led me to think its expanding definitions might be a good thing. Then I saw this potential problem:
Click to expand...
The expanded greek translation by someone explains the beauty of the expanded translations this way, perfectly:

In English, most translations do not convey the full meaning of the verbs/ verbage/ time/ "one time" or over and over again/continuing action that is clear in both Hebrew and Greek / and Aramaic/ .

So far as seen and compared and realized with a discerning eye, the expanded/ and the 'different'/ translations are very helpful in gaining a fuller understanding of the passages.

i.e. instead of a problem or potential problem at all,
it is a continuing blessings.
 
Em in Ohio said:
their strange religious practices to. And, of course, there have been many injuries and deaths.
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Tangentially, for brief comparison, did you ever realize that the injuries and deaths by pharmakeia have been the fastest growing cause for a century, and now ranks possibly as the main cause, ongoing, without an end in site until the Messiah Returns /// except for those who are free from that deception or become free from it.
 
...and to put this thread back on track with apologies: Deism - "belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind." (Google)

I can't get behind this idea. If I created a universe, I wouldn't let it run amuck. And, as said repeatedly, I personally could not respect such a creator.
 

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