Divorce rates in UK and worldwide

Robb.hisself said:
People's behaviors do not change post wedding day after a long courtship. Getting to know the other person in a courtship is what courtship really is all about. Slow down. Take your time. Don't be in a rush. But, when she finds out he's rich or a doctor the wedding can't happen fast enough. And, also, practice makes perfect. So being married only twice does not mean the future possibilities are hopeless. After all it took my cousin 7 times to get it right for her. Don't forget, "Three's a charm."
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Narcissists are masters at masking who they are. This can go on for years before the mask slips.
 

Blaming feminism for divorce rates is like blaming the sun for skin cancer after you spent years sunbathing.

Feminism helped to (FINALLY) free socially and economically stuck women from being handcuffed to bad marriages. Had those partners and partnerships been joyful or workable, the marriages would have remained intact.

My grandfather was abusive and a cheater until he became quite elderly. My GM used to say, "Married X years (over 70 years together when she died), could have been divorced every day." Most smiled and saw it as a positive character trait - a tribute to her endurance and level of commitment.

Not me. Even as a little kid I thought it was an awful way to live. On the other hand, she couldn't have possibly survived without his paycheck so she was royally stuck.

If traditional marriages were all sunshine and lollipops our mothers and grandmothers wouldn't have so strongly encouraged their daughters and granddaughters to get educations and have skills to could earn a living. Can't tell you how many times I was advised by women to never be in the position of being completely dependent on a man.

Not saying all or most divorces are due to men's failures. Plenty of women screw up, too, and sometimes people grow apart or become incompatible. Am merely responding to the suggestion that feminism is a villain in this story.

Final comment: As for women getting big child support and divorce settlement paydays, since nearly all these laws were written by governments disproportionately run by men, passed by legislative bodies largely made up of men, and applicability and legality were mostly decided by men wearing judicial robes, it seems unlikely these laws were/are heavily tilted toward women.

Might, statistically speaking, an occasional woman or child gets more than their share during divorce proceedings? Sure.
Cry me a river.
 
No need for marriage these days.
When you are in your 20's/30's, men are looking for someone to raise their children, Women are looking for a stable provider/protector.
40's/50's...grow your children
60' and beyond......companionship, no marriage
If men did the math, they wouldn't ever get married these days.
 
StarSong said:
Blaming feminism for divorce rates is like blaming the sun for skin cancer after you spent years sunbathing.

Feminism helped to (FINALLY) free socially and economically stuck women from being handcuffed to bad marriages. Had those partners and partnerships been joyful or workable, the marriages would have remained intact.

My grandfather was abusive and a cheater until he became quite elderly. My GM used to say, "Married X years (over 70 years together when she died), could have been divorced every day." Most smiled and saw it as a positive character trait - a tribute to her endurance and level of commitment.

Not me. Even as a little kid I thought it was an awful way to live. On the other hand, she couldn't have possibly survived without his paycheck so she was royally stuck.

If traditional marriages were all sunshine and lollipops our mothers and grandmothers wouldn't have so strongly encouraged their daughters and granddaughters to get educations and have skills to could earn a living. Can't tell you how many times I was advised by women to never be in the position of being completely dependent on a man.

Not saying all or most divorces are due to men's failures. Plenty of women screw up, too, and sometimes people grow apart or become incompatible. Am merely responding to the suggestion that feminism is a villain in this story.

Final comment: As for women getting big child support and divorce settlement paydays, since nearly all these laws were written by governments disproportionately run by men, passed by legislative bodies largely made up of men, and applicability and legality were mostly decided by men wearing judicial robes, it seems unlikely these laws were/are heavily tilted toward women.

Might, statistically speaking, an occasional woman or child gets more than their share during divorce proceedings? Sure.
Cry me a river.
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"Final comment: As for women getting big child support and divorce settlement paydays, since nearly all these laws were written by governments disproportionately run by men, passed by legislative bodies largely made up of men, and applicability and legality were mostly decided by men wearing judicial robes, it seems unlikely these laws were/are heavily tilted toward women." WOW!

A man hater much? Divorce laws are heavily leaning towards women. Women can make up any story they want and they are believed in a court of law. Women can just decided to walk away, at any time, for any reason, and get alimony, child support, a free house, and free education.
They saying goes, 'Find a woman you hate and buy her a house'.....its cheaper than divorce.
 
Sippican said:
"Final comment: As for women getting big child support and divorce settlement paydays, since nearly all these laws were written by governments disproportionately run by men, passed by legislative bodies largely made up of men, and applicability and legality were mostly decided by men wearing judicial robes, it seems unlikely these laws were/are heavily tilted toward women." WOW!

A man hater much? Divorce laws are heavily leaning towards women. Women can make up any story they want and they are believed in a court of law. Women can just decided to walk away, at any time, for any reason, and get alimony, child support, a free house, and free education.
They saying goes, 'Find a woman you hate and buy her a house'.....its cheaper than divorce.
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A man hater? Me? LOL Not hardly, my dear. I've been married to the same wonderful man for 43 years - neither of us have ever been divorced and half my friends are men. Generally speaking, I've always found men easier to get along with than women. Less drama.

But let's be fair:
Men can leave marriages at any time, as well, and if their wives were the larger earners, the men get alimony and child support (if appropriate based on custody agreements). A free house? Can't say how it goes in MA, but that's not how it goes in this community property state. The house is typically sold or one party buys out the other. Free education? Can't say I've ever seen that happen. Again, no idea what happens in MA.

Then again, if the woman waited tables for years while putting her husband through law, medical or business school, after which he traded her in for a new dewy-eyed model who didn't know him when he wasn't such a big wheel? Well, it'd be only fair that he be called on to hit a sacrifice fly to let her score a run of her own, doncha think?

If you never noticed divorced or abandoned wives who were impoverished by that process back in the 1950s-1980s and beyond, you must have been intentionally looking elsewhere. People on this very forum speak glowingly of mothers who got zero financial support from exes, many of whom started new families and couldn't be bothered to visit their ealier progeny. Those moms scrimped, saved and worked long, hard hours to put food on the table for their children.

Did some legislatures overcorrect? Perhaps. As for my statement about it being largely men rather than women who passed divorced laws and judged them, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Although there are increasing numbers of women in elected government positions today, state legislatures average only 32.7% women despite the general US population being 51.1% female.
 
StarSong said:
A man hater? Me? LOL Not hardly, my dear. I've been married to the same wonderful man for 43 years - neither of us have ever been divorced and half my friends are men. Generally speaking, I've always found men easier to get along with than women. Less drama.

But let's be fair:
Men can leave marriages at any time, as well, and if their wives were the larger earners, the men get alimony and child support (if appropriate based on custody agreements). A free house? Can't say how it goes in MA, but that's not how it goes in this community property state. The house is typically sold or one party buys out the other. Free education? Can't say I've ever seen that happen. Again, no idea what happens in MA.

Then again, if the woman waited tables for years while putting her husband through law, medical or business school, after which he traded her in for a new dewy-eyed model who didn't know him when he wasn't such a big wheel? Well, it'd be only fair that he be called on to hit a sacrifice fly to let her score a run of her own, doncha think?

If you never noticed divorced or abandoned wives who were impoverished by that process back in the 1950s-1980s and beyond, you must have been intentionally looking elsewhere. People on this very forum speak glowingly of mothers who got zero financial support from exes, many of whom started new families and couldn't be bothered to visit their ealier progeny. Those moms scrimped, saved and worked long, hard hours to put food on the table for their children.

Did some legislatures overcorrect? Perhaps. As for my statement about it being largely men rather than women who passed divorced laws and judged them, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Although there are increasing numbers of women in elected government positions today, state legislatures average only 32.7% women despite the general US population being 51.1% female.
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First, you will only hear from women that are not getting what they think they should.
Women that are getting more than they should, and are surprised how much they get, will not come on here and complain. They are happy to get their checks every week/month, so the only statistics you get are from a small percentage.

Plus, your point of women paying child support is such a small number that it really doesn't reconcile with the number of men that pay.
Men would still lose. Why? Because all the media can talk about is how much less women make than men, so the child support would be much small, because women get paid less...right?
Just because you have been married a long time doesn't exclude you from hating men. I can only go by your posting where you attack men at all levels to prove an arguable point.

I can't believe you actually think that a waitress can afford to put a person through law school or medical school. A waitresses pay would never be able to pay for an advanced degree of 100K+ and maintain household expenses. Or was that just a talking point because it sounded nice?
As far as women in government, just because women have certain body parts should not make them electable.
There are more men in construction, plumbers, plow truck drivers, should we demand equality in those areas as well, or just the cushy jobs.
 
I did not attack men. I merely pointed out that men wrote and interpreted divorce, custody and alimony laws, so if you have a problem with those laws look no further than your own gender. But you already knew that's what I meant.

Plenty of wives have put their aspirations on hold to support their husband's career dreams, then when it was time for the wives to finish their own education it was a no-go. Did the wives completely fund their husband's careers? No. But their support sure greased the wheels to make them possible.

I have no interest in continuing this debate with you. Believe what you want about me, about women, and about how sad it is that men get the short end of the stick.
 
Pepper said:
What made you such a bitter man, I must wonder.
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Ahhh, bitter? Not at all....a realist, based on factual sound information.
We can either challenge a viewpoint with a different viewpoint, or succumb to a falsehood.
With equal amazement, I wonder how a man can so easily surrender to only one viewpoint.
I like quotes.....one that comes to mind as appropriate to this discussion is: "Its ok to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out".....or.... "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything"
 
StarSong said:
I did not attack men. I merely pointed out that men wrote and interpreted divorce, custody and alimony laws, so if you have a problem with those laws look no further than your own gender. But you already knew that's what I meant.

Plenty of wives have put their aspirations on hold to support their husband's career dreams, then when it was time for the wives to finish their own education it was a no-go. Did the wives completely fund their husband's careers? No. But their support sure greased the wheels to make them possible.

I have no interest in continuing this debate with you. Believe what you want about me, about women, and about how sad it is that men get the short end of the stick.
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You ignore the fact that plenty of men put their lives on hold to support their wives careers.
You make the case for women without taking into consideration that the roles are also reversed. You views can be viewed as sexist. Or am I not supposed to say that because I'm a man?
Yes, we have different views. We can leave it at that.
 
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that men didn't do that as well, just that it might explain why some women might get an education allowance as part of a divorce settlement.

If a husband puts his career on hold while his wife gets educated and establishes her career, he likewise should be given education funds if they divorce.
 
A lot depends on the time period involved. Marriages in the 50's and 60's were mostly of the "old fashioned" sort; the wife stayed home - did the cooking, cleaning, errands and child care with little to no help from the husband (there were exceptions - there always are at least a few). Over the next 60 years things have gradually changed. If a wife stayed home either by mutual agreement or at the husband's insistence and they divorced, she darned well earned whatever alimony and child support she got. If both are educated in an occupation etc., then there should be no alimony and limited child support if they both have partial custody of the children.
I was a stay at home Mom until it became obvious that the marriage was not working. After 10 years I came to the conclusion that I needed to finish my nursing education just in case. Every time I displeased my husband, he would demand a divorce. I would always counter, that I didn't want one, but if he really wanted one, I would go along. That usually ended it there.
I knew if we ever divorced there would be NO alimony or child support. He had absolutely refused to support his kids from the previous marriage. Fortunately, at the time, further education at American River and Sacramento State was dirt cheap, and I only needed a year and a half to get my BSN I got it and mistakenly stayed another 5 years. He demanded a divorce one time too many. "Done!" I said and filed the next morning. I refused any financial aide from him. I wanted no further ties.
We are in a period of change where men and women and marriages/relationships are concerned. It is and will continue on for many more years. Condemning one gender over the other will not help things. There are some awful people on both sides of the divide, but most are just trying to find their way through the maze in a way beneficial to their kids!
 
Sippican said:
"Final comment: As for women getting big child support and divorce settlement paydays, since nearly all these laws were written by governments disproportionately run by men, passed by legislative bodies largely made up of men, and applicability and legality were mostly decided by men wearing judicial robes, it seems unlikely these laws were/are heavily tilted toward women." WOW!

A man hater much? Divorce laws are heavily leaning towards women. Women can make up any story they want and they are believed in a court of law. Women can just decided to walk away, at any time, for any reason, and get alimony, child support, a free house, and free education.
They saying goes, 'Find a woman you hate and buy her a house'.....its cheaper than divorce.
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I think your reply is short sighted. @StarSong isn't a man hater, she simply stated the truth! Obviously if it was so easy for women to walk away back then, many would have. Many women (even today) were being supported by their husbands while they stayed home and raised the children. Some of them had that lorded over them. Even if they worked, they did so because it took more than one income to be able to support the home.

Why do you think women who were (are) being abused stay in those marriages? They stay(ed) because they couldn't afford to go elsewhere. I doubt there were many women's shelters back then. We had a neighbor who had 5 children. Her husband would get drunk, come home and beat her. She was a tiny woman too. But she never left him. Also, back in the day there was the misguided notion of having to stick to the promise "Til death do us part, for better or worse, etc." To me, being beaten and denigrated should not apply there.

FYI I don't believe in either spouse being treated unfairly or "raked over the coals" as they say when it comes to divorces and child custody cases. I've seen cases where clearly the man got the raw deal.
 

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