Do you agree with the Pope on limits to freedom of speech?

Ralphy1

Ralphy1

Well-known Member
He has stated that religious figures should not be made fun of or insulted. I don't agree and believe figures of any stripe are fair game, be they political, religious, academic, etc. Please agree with me on this cold end of what for many is the end of the workweek...
 

Being free to do something is not the same as getting off scot free if you choose to do so.
Similarly, if you support freedom of speech you had better be prepared to take having your own deeply held philosophy attacked and denigrated.

I curtail some of my thoughts about the USA on this forum because I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest.
And besides, you're all probably packing more heat than I could ever get my hands on.

There's freedom of expression and then there is prudence.
 
You have unkind thoughts about the "necessary" nation? Who would have thunk it... :D
 

Not unkind, but not what some people may want to hear...

... so if you want people to listen to what you want to say then it's better not to provoke them into a rage first.

Communications 101.
 
Yes "Freedom of Speech" is there, but it can (and does) get many people into trouble. Just try that "Freedom of Speech" thing on a cop or a Judge and see what happens! As for me, I've learned, thru this forum and another one, AND in my person life to sort of..............watch what I say!!.
 
You Commonwealth types just don't understand our rightful position in the world that was God chosen...
 
Maybe and maybe not.

Insiders may critique their own group (and probably should do) but outsiders should tread with caution.
It's the same in families. Siblings may fight and argue constantly but when someone else picks on one of them, they have the whole lot lined up against them.

Religion is like that. It is not above criticism but gratuitous insults can be very overdone.
Outsiders would be wise to learn some sensitivity. Fools rush in... and all that.
 
Even with free speech we need to understand what we say comes with consequences. Those who doubt the foregoing need only stop a big guy on the street an insult the woman he is with. There are some limits on free speech now. Inciting a riot comes to mind as does the often quoted "fire in the crowded theater".
 
Ralphy1 said:
He has stated that religious figures should not be made fun of or insulted. I don't agree and believe figures of any stripe are fair game, be they political, religious, academic, etc. Please agree with me on this cold end of what for many is the end of the workweek...
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I don't care what kind of figure you are I'll talk about you anyway I want and expect others to do the same. That being said unless I'm in your house or face what is being said around the world is simply speech. Anyone who wants limits on speech other than FIRE! in a crowded theater is not only trying to limit speech but limit dissent, they want to limit dissent to make it easier to impose their views and eventually control your behavior.

We can get into things like sticks & stones etc but this is all about making it easier for religious figures in particular to sell their product/themselves.
 
Freedom of speech be what it may be..... every leader religious and otherwise has been getting their share of mockery for ages, but don't be surprised when the dangerous snake you are teasing turns around and bites you ... I have no answers to this issue but isn't it obvious that provoking a fundamentalist irrational faction is bound to turn out badly.
 
Cookie said:
Freedom of speech be what it may be..... every leader religious and otherwise has been getting their share of mockery for ages, but don't be surprised when the dangerous snake you are teasing turns around and bites you ... I have no answers to this issue but isn't it obvious that provoking a fundamentalist irrational faction is bound to turn out badly.
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But is speech "provoking" these factions or are these factions voluntarily chosing to be "provoked" to exploit this situation for their own gain. Did Charlie Hebdo purposely throw copies of their magazine into a Mosque or a Muslim's house? How is public speech a direct personal insult. To 'disagree', 'don't like', 'don't appreciate' or 'be incensed' are all different things. Physical action and being diametrically opposed are two different things. Yet all of these things seem to be lumped together.
 
They have been brainwashed to be provoked and do not think rationally for themselves - they are members of a dangerous and violent 'cult' and do not think for behave like normal human beings anymore. They have been trained to kill anyone that they consider a threat to their ideology and will use any excuse to do so.
 
I had not heard about the Pope's comment, so I looked it up out of curiosity. Here's the article about it.

http://rt.com/news/222935-pope-religion-freedom-insulted/

It sounds to me that he was speaking more as a conciliatory politician than as a religious leader. (And of course, the nature of his job does make him a politician.) It was the kind of generally "respectful" comment that heads of state frequently make. I wouldn't read too much into it, for that reason.

As for my own feelings about this, I think that any leader of anything is fair game for humor, commentary, argument, and yes, even ridicule. Religious leaders included. (Or maybe, I should say religious leaders especially.)
 
When I am online, whether I am on a forum or Facebook, I try to keep in mind that behind every pseudonym and avatar is a real person with real feelings. For that reason I temper what I write because I have no idea what each one has suffered or what they are going through on any particular day. I don't give myself the freedom to be cruel for the same reason I don't pull the wings off flies.

IMO, magazines like Charlie Hebdo go far beyond offering fair and reasoned criticism of religion. They aim to deliver death by a thousand cuts to any and all religious faiths and in doing so they stir up strong feelings, not just among the muslim community but also among catholics and Jews. Most of us deal with our anger without becoming violent but some, from cultures where insult must be avenged, have a lot of difficulty doing this and resentment grows with each fresh insult.

One of our more vile cartoonists entered the post Charlie fray with a sketch of a fat, pink pig skewered by a pencil being roasted over a fire

Mods - please edit this if it is too offensive

08012015%20PIG%20S.png
In associating the Prophet with a pig with a Halal stamp, he couldn't have been more offensive to muslims, radical or otherwise.
Now he is under police protection. The publicity is exactly what he was angling for IMO. He's cashing in.

Let's now forget that there's a subtle difference between you and I voicing our opinions openly and someone who sets out to be offensive because they want to make a buck and notoriety is a good way to do that.
 
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