Do You Believe in an Eternal Hell

[Aneeda72]

I never said it was in the Bible. That's what I don't like about organized religion it's all about control. Not Catholic? Can't get to heaven no matter how good a life you lead. That doesn't sound like something a God would tout but it sure sounds like something man would.
As for Mother Theresa, you kind of evaded my point. I'm sure there are non Christians as a result of their faith they dedicated their lives to the poor just as much as Mother Theresa did, maybe more. But since they're not Christian "No heaven for you!"? Again, doesn't seem like something God would espouse .

I want to “way in” on this.

Devout Christians are like any ”devout” follower of anything, they can not imagine other religions, other sports teams, actors could succeed. In truth in the Bible it says “there are many paths to heaven” or hell although not eternal hell, IMO.

The Pope, I believe it is the current one, but I can not remember; said “everyone goes to heaven”-everyone. Yes, I believe this, everyone goes, eventually, who believes there is a heaven. You can not go to someplace you do not believe exsist.

I also believe it has nothing to do “with how good a life you lead”. We are judged on our works, our deeds, our forgiveness to others and ourselves, and repentance of our sins. Plus other stuff, there is always other stuff. .

It's no surprise to any of us that there will always be scammers. Beware.

"There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. We can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshiping Him as God (Pliny the Younger)." There are writings and artifacts a plenty.

But I think what you are really asking is "Is there proof that Jesus is who he said he was...the Messiah and Son of God?" It was easy for me to believe purely by reading the New Testament and observing all of Creation. But my late husband wanted proof, like you, and so he studied every side of the coin at great length and became a super strong believer and very knowledgable regarding fulfilled prophecy. I think it was the over 300 fulfilled prophesies that finally convinced him.

God encourages us to study his Word because "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17). He also says, "Blessed are they who have not seen, but believe". Many find our way to the truth down different paths. Some just choose to "go with the flow and hope for the best". For me, I can just look around me, really open my eyes and see, pray, and read God's Word.

My disabled sons are Catholic, they also believe in JC and God. Neither can read and they certainly can’t read the Bible or understand it. But they are believers. No Bible is necessary, and their place in Heaven is assured.

 

[Lara]

Devout Christians are like any ”devout” follower of anything, they can not imagine other religions, other sports teams, actors could succeed. In truth in the Bible it says “there are many paths to heaven” or hell

I cherry-picked these 2 sentences from your post because you said, "The Bible says, there are many paths to Heaven"
Is the Catholic Bible different?

My KJV Holy Bible doesn't say that. It says there is only One Way to Heaven. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6

 

[digifoss]

...
The Pope, I believe it is the current one, but I can not remember; said “everyone goes to heaven”-everyone. Yes, I believe this, everyone goes, eventually, ...

I do somewhat agree with this part of what you said Aneeda72, although my reason has nothing to do with the Pope, and I am not Catholic, but...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There are several explanations for the meaning of this verse, I've considered them all, but it's my opinion and belief, that the part of this verse in red letters, is saying that there will eventually be another opportunity, or opportunities, besides now, for ALL, that's everyone, to be saved. That would be more like the loving God that I know, like a parent that NEVER gives up on any of their children, no matter how far they stray.

 

[Aneeda72]

I cherry-picked these 2 sentences from your post because you said, "The Bible says, there are many paths to Heaven"
Is the Catholic Bible different?

My KJV Holy Bible doesn't say that. It says there is only One Way to Heaven. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6

I said HEAVEN, I said nothing about being in the presence of God the Father. @Lara

 

[Aneeda72]

I cherry-picked these 2 sentences from your post because you said, "The Bible says, there are many paths to Heaven"
Is the Catholic Bible different?

My KJV Holy Bible doesn't say that. It says there is only One Way to Heaven. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6

As I understand it, the Bible’s are different but I’ve not read the Catholic version

 

[Keesha]

I cherry-picked these 2 sentences from your post because you said, "The Bible says, there are many paths to Heaven"
Is the Catholic Bible different?

My KJV Holy Bible doesn't say that. It says there is only One Way to Heaven. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6

So once again, what about all the humans born before Jesus Christ? If the only way to the Father is through him then why were they even born in the first place ? ;(considering they were doomed for eternal hell?)

What about tribes of people who have never seen or heard anything about the Bible or Jesus Christ? Do they automatically go to hell?

There had to have been some law and order before Jesus was born. Did all the universal laws suddenly stop or change because Jesus was born?

 

[Dana]

Because Mary herself said in the Bible Luke 1:46-49
...she only wanted all generations to call her "blessed" because "it is He who is the mighty one"
...souls magnify Him
...rejoice in our Savior (savior from punishment of sins)
...for it is He who has looked over her home (and refers to herself as His servant since she served God when giving birth to Jesus)
...and she says Holy is His name (she doesn't want her name to be holy)

Luke 1:46-49

46 And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,

47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.

For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;

49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,

and holy is His name.

​

​

​

Because Mary herself said in the Bible Luke 1:46-49
...she only wanted all generations to call her "blessed" because "it is He who is the mighty one"
...souls magnify Him
...rejoice in our Savior (savior from punishment of sins)
...for it is He who has looked over her home (and refers to herself as His servant since she served God when giving birth to Jesus)
...and she says Holy is His name (she doesn't want her name to be holy)

Luke 1:46-49

46 And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,

47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.

For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;

49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,

and holy is His name.

Mary could not have said that herself. The New Testament was not even written in her time. The methuselahs who wrote the books of the bible downplayed her importance by claiming she was, a ruined woman who repented and was saved by Christ’s teachings. She had no voice…no recording was ever made of anything she said.​

To add insult to injury, Luke, was not an eyewitness of any of the events of Jesus’s life…he relied on heresay.

 

[Dana]

Huh? What is not true in the New Testament?

And, of course the New Testament is a continuation from the Old Testament....but the Old Testament is using the Mosaic Law and sacrifices, whereas the New Testament is is all about accepting the Messiah's gift of forgiveness of sin because He paid the sacrifice....and that changed everything!

The New Testament does not give "true"accounts of events of the time. What's more it was written by so many scribes who added their own finishing touches, similar to the Daily Mail of today.

It is not even an historical book because, it contains no real historical facts, which can be verified and which is necessary for it to be called such.

 

[Dana]

It's no surprise to any of us that there will always be scammers. Beware.

"There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. We can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshiping Him as God (Pliny the Younger)." There are writings and artifacts a plenty.

But I think what you are really asking is "Is there proof that Jesus is who he said he was...the Messiah and Son of God?" It was easy for me to believe purely by prayerfully reading the New Testament, observing all of Creation, noticing a difference in who I was after being filled with the Holy Spirit. But my late husband wanted proof, like you, and so he studied every side of the coin at great length and became a super strong believer and very knowledgable regarding fulfilled prophecy. I think it was the chances of over 300 fulfilled prophesies occuring regarding the coming of the Messiah and His birth that finally convinced him.

God encourages us to study his Word because "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Romans 10:17). He also says, "Blessed are they who have not seen, but believe". Many find our way through life down different paths but there is only one way to truth. Some just choose to "go with the flow and hope for the best". For me, I can just look around me, really open my eyes and see, pray, and read God's Word.

I truly believe Jesus existed, on that I agree with you. However, he was an ordinary man not part of a Trinity as the scribes would have people believe.

Jesus never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of Jesus; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan . . .

 

[Dana]

I cherry-picked these 2 sentences from your post because you said, "The Bible says, there are many paths to Heaven"
Is the Catholic Bible different?

My KJV Holy Bible doesn't say that. It says there is only One Way to Heaven. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6

Did you know this Lara I suspect not. Analogies have been drawn between Buddhism and Christianity, and Buddhism may have influenced Christianity. Buddhist missionaries were sent by Emperor Ashoka of India to Syria, Egypt and Greece beginning in 250 BCE and may have helped prepare for the ethics of Christ.

 

[garyt1957]

I truly believe Jesus existed, on that I agree with you. However, he was an ordinary man not part of a Trinity as the scribes would have people believe.

Jesus never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of Jesus; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan . . .

Actually, isn't the whole story of Jesus almost word for word taken from an old pagan belief? I'm pretty sure I read that and why I'm not very convinced that Jesus ever existed.

 

[Dana]

My opinion...Jesus existed...I love the man he was. The people who wrote about him, wrote all the things he would not have wanted if he had a chance to approve.

The books of the Bible contain some wise words, but it also contains some horrific events and it is sad many in this century are still hanging on to these ideas.

 

[Dana]

Actually, isn't the whole story of Jesus almost word for word taken from an old pagan belief? I'm pretty sure I read that and why I'm not very convinced that Jesus ever existed.

I believe Jesus existed. I believe there is a Creator.

 

[officerripley]

I heard a couple years ago, that quite a few historians believe that Jesus is probably based on 3 or 4 radicals who were active in Israel at the time--a time of much political dissent--thus the difference in things he's supposed to have said/done, for instance, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (in other words, pay your taxes already) as opposed to being enraged by the money changers in the temple; sometimes he appeared to practice Judaism but there was that sermon where he kept saying "...it is written that [whatever], but I say unto you...". So different guys who were less or more radical in their problems with Rome and (sometimes with established Judaism) and the story morphed over the years into being one person.

 

[Lara]

I said HEAVEN, I said nothing about being in the presence of God the Father. @Lara

The Bible teaches that God reigns over the nations from His holy throne in heaven (Psalm 47:8; Isaiah 6:1, 66:1; Hebrews 4:16). Even though we know that God’s presence is in some sense uniquely in heaven, the teachings of Scripture also make it clear that God is omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). From the beginning of Scripture, we see the presence of God hovering over the earth, even when it was still formless and empty (Genesis 1:2). God filled the world with His creation, and His presence and glory continue to inhabit the whole earth (Numbers 14:21). There are many examples throughout Scripture of God’s presence moving on the earth, interacting with His creation (Genesis 3:8; Deuteronomy 23:14; Exodus 3:2; 1 Kings 19:11-18; Luke 1:35; Acts 16:7). Hebrews 4:13 says, “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give an account.” Jeremiah 23:24 exclaims, “‘Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him?’ declares the Lord. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ declares the Lord.” Psalm 139 is an amazing study in God’s omnipresence.

Where is God?
If you are a believer in Jesus Christ, God is with you, beside you, above you, and inside you. God’s presence and watchful care never leave you. If you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, God is right in front of you, inviting you, drawing you, offering you the love, mercy, and grace that He longs to give you.

 

[Lara]

So once again, what about all the humans born before Jesus Christ? If the only way to the Father is through him then why were they even born in the first place ? ;(considering they were doomed for eternal hell?)

What about tribes of people who have never seen or heard anything about the Bible or Jesus Christ? Do they automatically go to hell?

There had to have been some law and order before Jesus was born. Did all the universal laws suddenly stop or change because Jesus was born?

According to the Old Testament...All humans before Christ went to a place of comfort and rest called “paradise” when they died. The Old Testament taught life after death and that everyone who departed from this life went to a place of conscious existence. The general term for this place was Sheol, which could be translated “the grave” or “the realm of the dead.” The wicked were there (Psalm 9:17; 31:17; 49:14; Isaiah 5:14), and so were the righteous (Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13; Psalm 6:5; 16:10; 88:3; Isaiah 38:10).

Tribes of people who have never heard the Gospel of Christ will automatically go to Heaven according to the Bible.

The Mosaic Law ruled the Old Testament where one had to sacrifice animals and atone for their sins on their own. Yes, that completely changed in the New Testament. Christ paid for the punishment of our sins and believers may have natural consequences for their sins but no punishment and free entry into Heaven without working our way in.

 

[officerripley]

According to the Old Testament...All humans before Christ went to a place of comfort and rest called “paradise” when they died. The Old Testament taught life after death and that everyone who departed from this life went to a place of conscious existence. The general term for this place was Sheol, which could be translated “the grave” or “the realm of the dead.” The wicked were there (Psalm 9:17; 31:17; 49:14; Isaiah 5:14), and so were the righteous (Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13; Psalm 6:5; 16:10; 88:3; Isaiah 38:10).

Tribes of people who have never heard the Gospel of Christ will automatically go to Heaven according to the Bible.

The Mosaic Law ruled the Old Testament where one had to sacrifice animals and atone for their sins on their own. Yes, that completely changed in the New Testament. Christ paid for the punishment of our sins and believers may have natural consequences for their sins but no punishment and free entry into Heaven without working our way in.

So the poor dead righteous have to spend eternity with the wicked?!! What's wrong with this picture? (To quote Nicolas Cage's character in Con-Air, "I would say a lot.")

 

[Lara]

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There are several explanations for the meaning of this verse, I've considered them all, but it's my opinion and belief, that the part of this verse in red letters, is saying that there will eventually be another opportunity, or opportunities, besides now, for ALL, that's everyone, to be saved. That would be more like the loving God that I know, like a parent that NEVER gives up on any of their children, no matter how far they stray.

I'm not telling you how to believe but I'm sharing what I know about second chances after death as stated in the Bible. It's true that the Lord wants no one to perish so the choice to believe is open to everyone no matter how many sins or how serious the sins one has. But the choice must be made before death. We have chances everyday of our lives, every moment to make that choice and be saved. But God wants us to come by faith and trust in Him while we're here.

Hebrews 9:27 says we die once and after that is death...meaning physical and spiritual death....then judgement. Purgatory has no Biblical basis. We must trust in Him in this life.

 

[Aneeda72]

The Bible teaches that God reigns over the nations from His holy throne in heaven (Psalm 47:8; Isaiah 6:1, 66:1; Hebrews 4:16). Even though we know that God’s presence is in some sense uniquely in heaven, the teachings of Scripture also make it clear that God is omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). From the beginning of Scripture, we see the presence of God hovering over the earth, even when it was still formless and empty (Genesis 1:2). God filled the world with His creation, and His presence and glory continue to inhabit the whole earth (Numbers 14:21). There are many examples throughout Scripture of God’s presence moving on the earth, interacting with His creation (Genesis 3:8; Deuteronomy 23:14; Exodus 3:2; 1 Kings 19:11-18; Luke 1:35; Acts 16:7). Hebrews 4:13 says, “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give an account.” Jeremiah 23:24 exclaims, “‘Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him?’ declares the Lord. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ declares the Lord.” Psalm 139 is an amazing study in God’s omnipresence.

Where is God?
If you are a believer in Jesus Christ, God is with you, beside you, above you, and inside you. God’s presence and watchful care never leave you. If you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, God is right in front of you, inviting you, drawing you, offering you the love, mercy, and grace that He longs to give you.

But that is not how people perceive heaven or God the Father. JC also said something to the effect that their are many houses in my Father’s realm. A very famous preacher said he was not afraid of death because when he died he would sit at the right hand of God. The arrogance of this man was overwhelming.

It is arrogant, for anyone, to assume they will sit in God’s presence, let alone at his right hand. It is arrogant, IMO, of any individual to assume they will go to heaven when they have not been judged.

The Holy Spirit is with us, JC said wherever 3 gather in my name I am there, indicating he is only present when 3 gather. God the Father reigns in heaven. Our opinions differ on this.

 

[Lara]

So the poor dead righteous have to spend eternity with the wicked?!! What's wrong with this picture? (To quote Nicolas Cage's character in Con-Air, "I would say a lot.")

Calm down . There is more but a lot and complicated. That's why I didn't go into it.
If you're interested in the complete answer then click on this link. It's not that long but just too long for a forum post:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-believers.html

I'm not an expert on the Old Testament. I'm much more familiar with the New Testament. So that's why I'm giving you this link that I fully trust.

 

[Aneeda72]

I'm not telling you how to believe but I'm sharing what I know about second chances after death as stated in the Bible. It's true that the Lord wants no one to perish so the choice to believe is open to everyone no matter how many sins or how serious the sins one has. But the choice must be made before death. We have chances everyday of our lives, every moment to make that choice and be saved. But God wants us to come by faith and trust in Him while we're here.

Hebrews 9:27 says we die once and after that is death...meaning physical and spiritual death....then judgement. Purgatory has no Biblical basis. We must trust in Him in this life.

I believe @Lara you rely too much on the Bible, a history written by old men. There are many books missing from the Bible as the early Catholic Church burned them. There are other books, found and not widely accepted.

In point of fact, neither you nor those who wrote the Bible, or anyone in the world can consign people who do not believe in JC to hell if they believe in God the Father. JC was speaking to the Jewish people, his chosen people. We have no way of knowing which of his words were for the Jewish people alone.

Most Jews of the time did not believe JC was the son of God. Therefore JC, might have been saying to the Jewish people, and only the Jewish people, that they needed to believe in him to obtain heaven. We simply do not know.

We do know that JC was not speaking to Christians as there were NO Christians until after he died. We need to keep that in mind, IMO.

 

[Dana]

I heard a couple years ago, that quite a few historians believe that Jesus is probably based on 3 or 4 radicals who were active in Israel at the time--a time of much political dissent--thus the difference in things he's supposed to have said/done, for instance, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (in other words, pay your taxes already) as opposed to being enraged by the money changers in the temple; sometimes he appeared to practice Judaism but there was that sermon where he kept saying "...it is written that [whatever], but I say unto you...". So different guys who were less or more radical in their problems with Rome and (sometimes with established Judaism) and the story morphed over the years into being one person.

Jesus was Jewish, all his family were Jewish, so therefore his teaching would have been based on Mosaic law. You could call him a "radical" of his time..but...a good radical.

 

[Lara]

Aneeda, as I told you before, I don't debate with Catholics as your minds are made up and Catholics don't use my Bible. I do.
We're just miles apart.

A lot of posts have been directed towards me while I was out so I'm sorry if I missed anyone. Also, I'm not trying to change anyones mind so please keep that in mind. I'm just answering questions according to what I know from my Bible.

 

[Dana]

During his lifetime, Jesus didn't call himself God and didn't consider himself God, and ... none of his disciples called him God....and Lara the words "I am the way" can be interpreted in many ways.

I suggest you may want to put aside those Books for a minute and have a look at what is available on the internet about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[Dana]

Aneeda, as I told you before, I don't debate with Catholics as your minds are made up and Catholics don't use the Bible. I do.
We're just miles apart.

You are wrong to say that. Catholics are not the only ones who have made up minds.