CeeCee
Well-known Member
- Location
- Monterey Peninsula California
Do you believe in Near Death Experiences?
- Thread starter CeeCee
- Start date
Story, so bear with me.
When my husband died, his mother was living with his brother and sister-in-law.
by then, she was bed-ridden, her mind was wandering, and she had forgotten him....so we never told her, I never went up to visit her, in case she remembered.
She got weaker and weaker, then, one morning, she cried out, and my sister-in-law went in to see her.
as she was dying, she looked beyond Jan, into the distance, and Jan swears she smiled, as if she was looking at Viv, waiting for her.
then she died .
When my husband died, his mother was living with his brother and sister-in-law.
by then, she was bed-ridden, her mind was wandering, and she had forgotten him....so we never told her, I never went up to visit her, in case she remembered.
She got weaker and weaker, then, one morning, she cried out, and my sister-in-law went in to see her.
as she was dying, she looked beyond Jan, into the distance, and Jan swears she smiled, as if she was looking at Viv, waiting for her.
then she died .
That Guy
Homegrown Unknown
- Location
- Monterey Bay
I've experienced some very dangerous situations that could have easily sent me toward the light. But, luckily, nothing that actually pushed me through the door.
That Guy
Homegrown Unknown
- Location
- Monterey Bay
Long story. But, yes.
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
I am pretty open-minded about things like this; so , even though I am not sure if they actually exist, or what they represent, I do think that this probably does happen. There have been a lot of stories from people who claim to have had them.
One church that I went to, the pastor had heart problems, and one Sunday told us the story of his NDE. He said he woke up one night and was looking down at himself and his wife in the bed.
When he came back into his body, he said it was cold, and he started shaking from the cold, and woke his wife up. He didn't know for sure what happened, but it seemed like either an OBE or a NDE .
When my mother was in the hospital dying from CHF, she was telling me that there was a Mexican family sheltering in the basement, and she was helping the angels take care of them.
Since I was sure that no families were sheltering in the hospital, I decided that she was "traveling" between this timespace and another one, somewhere, and helping some needy family in that other world/place.
There is such a lot about our mind and the abilities that we don't understand, and it is one of the subjects that I never tire of reading about the amazing things that happen to people.
One church that I went to, the pastor had heart problems, and one Sunday told us the story of his NDE. He said he woke up one night and was looking down at himself and his wife in the bed.
When he came back into his body, he said it was cold, and he started shaking from the cold, and woke his wife up. He didn't know for sure what happened, but it seemed like either an OBE or a NDE .
When my mother was in the hospital dying from CHF, she was telling me that there was a Mexican family sheltering in the basement, and she was helping the angels take care of them.
Since I was sure that no families were sheltering in the hospital, I decided that she was "traveling" between this timespace and another one, somewhere, and helping some needy family in that other world/place.
There is such a lot about our mind and the abilities that we don't understand, and it is one of the subjects that I never tire of reading about the amazing things that happen to people.
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gar
New Member
- Location
- Miss. Ont. Canada
Don't know if I believe in near Death experiences or Not.
I think there is no doubt that NDE are real. There have been too many well documented cases. I think the real question is whether what they believe actually happened , or was it caused by something like some type of chemical reaction in the brain. I have a friend that suffered a NDE and he believes what he saw was real and it changed his life.
My granddaughter suffers from vaso-vascular syncope. She passes out, her eyes roll back in her head and she has what looks like a seizure. It is really scary to see. When she was nine it happened at school and scared everyone to death. While we were in the emergency room she could tell how worried we all were. She reached over and put her hand on mine and told me not to worry. She said she is not scared that when it happens there are angels with her taking care of her. She is eleven now and it happens about twice a year. She still says not to worry the angels still take care of her. I sure hope they are, because it still scares the hell out of me.
My granddaughter suffers from vaso-vascular syncope. She passes out, her eyes roll back in her head and she has what looks like a seizure. It is really scary to see. When she was nine it happened at school and scared everyone to death. While we were in the emergency room she could tell how worried we all were. She reached over and put her hand on mine and told me not to worry. She said she is not scared that when it happens there are angels with her taking care of her. She is eleven now and it happens about twice a year. She still says not to worry the angels still take care of her. I sure hope they are, because it still scares the hell out of me.
I remember when my Mum was dying - I didn't even know she had been sick. We were hundreds of miles apart - physically. I "saw" her at the end of my bed. She somehow pulled the blankets up and told me not to worry - it was all OK. The next morning I got the phone call to tell me she had died about the same time I had the vision of her.
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
As with most paranormal phenomena I'm of a split mind.
The scientific side of me demands concrete proof, while the metaphysical side of me finds plenty of reasons for their existence.
I read the book "Heaven Is For Real", the story of a minister's young son who supposedly was close to death, went on a little Disneyland tour of Heaven, spoke with God, hung out with the saints and then moseyed on back down to Earth. What followed were countless "proofs" of his visit, along with his spouting Scripture at odd moments and generally being credited with being an all-wise, all-knowing child.
I don't believe it.
I DO believe that, growing up in a Fundamentalist Baptist family where Dad is the Minister and Mom the mindless bulldog, you're going to develop certain thought patterns. When you go to the emergency room and are administered anesthesia you're going to be tripping.
The rest is, I believe, poetic license on the part of the author (Dad the minister).
I saw my mother's ghost the moment she passed, 10 miles away. I could have easily ascribed this event to paranormal circumstances, but I know that it was psychological stress in ME. Nothing external - just something my own mind created.
And until my scientific side receives solid evidence otherwise, that's what I'm going with - we create our own NDEs.
The scientific side of me demands concrete proof, while the metaphysical side of me finds plenty of reasons for their existence.
I read the book "Heaven Is For Real", the story of a minister's young son who supposedly was close to death, went on a little Disneyland tour of Heaven, spoke with God, hung out with the saints and then moseyed on back down to Earth. What followed were countless "proofs" of his visit, along with his spouting Scripture at odd moments and generally being credited with being an all-wise, all-knowing child.
I don't believe it.
I DO believe that, growing up in a Fundamentalist Baptist family where Dad is the Minister and Mom the mindless bulldog, you're going to develop certain thought patterns. When you go to the emergency room and are administered anesthesia you're going to be tripping.
The rest is, I believe, poetic license on the part of the author (Dad the minister).
I saw my mother's ghost the moment she passed, 10 miles away. I could have easily ascribed this event to paranormal circumstances, but I know that it was psychological stress in ME. Nothing external - just something my own mind created.
And until my scientific side receives solid evidence otherwise, that's what I'm going with - we create our own NDEs.
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
I echo that.
As most know I'm relatively quietly (here anyway) an atheist and spiritual/supernatural skeptic. But I am fascinated by the stories, mainly to dismember them, but have also experienced enough similar weirdness to understand why we get so convinced of their supernatural origins.
My rough view is that those who most want and need to believe and maintain connection are the ones most likely to have NDEs or accept that others have them.
I can only present my own story as proof that the supernatural is not the only thing in play. Our own minds are where these things happen.
I had been 24/7 full on carer for my mother for too many years when it go too much and I had to put her into aged care or kark before her.
She had been there only a few weeks or so when I heard her call me. It woke me but I shrugged it off and was drifting off again when she called louder and rang the little bell she had. Well that was enough to get me to the door before I told myself, again, that no, she wasn't in the bedroom, she was 'up the hill.' I heard her call again that night but didn't get up. Must have seemed a pretty good omen that something was going wrong but I figured they would phone me as I told them to if she was ever taken really bad and I was only minutes away..
I phoned the hostel when I got up to check on her only to be told she was eating breakfast and had spent a quieter than usual night.
She wasn't dead. She wasn't calling me. It had nothing to do with her at all. I was letting her haunt me 3 years before she died!
There is no doubt that I 'heard' those calls, they woke me up right? But I heard them, she didn't make them. Something in me triggered it, not supernatural causes. There's a lot more we don't know than do about how the brain works. I'm not betting any money on spirits just yet.
There is all kinds of kinky research being done into the physical causes of mind and mental processes and findings that mitochondria carry a kind of halflife and 'memory' of their own. These 'seem' to be what give people in deep anaesthesia, or even those clinically dead, 'memories' of experiences during that time that they couldn't possibly have remembered or registered with normal brain function.
It's an interesting concept and explains an awful lot of we accept as spiritual enlightenment. Presumably this little trick operates all the time and may be where instinct and deja vu lives. Knowledge we carry that was never learned and can't be explained.
I like it anyway, fits my views better than 'spritual' stuff. But the scores aren't in so no 'winners' yet.
For all that I believe nice folk see and are convinced by things and are being 100% truthful, I still can't accept their conclusion.
I think of Kerry Packer whom Aussies are well familiar with but was a big, pragmatic, noisy, brutally straight talking multi billionaire who practically ran the joint. He surrounded his life and business with his own massive bullsh*t free zone and I really admired that.
He was snatched out of death's doorway and later interviewed to relate his experience with near death. Paraphrased.. 'it just went black, and believe me, there's nothing out there, not a **cking thing!' I'm more inclined to accept Kezza's testimony on that.
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
There are things that happen in life sometimes , that we simply don't have the explanation for, and I do agree that often times, it is our own mind that is doing it. I have awakened hearing one of my kids calling me, and they are all long since grown and gone, yet I heard them as plain as if they had been in the next room.
Years ago, my first husband was in a car wreck, and called me the next morning from the hospital, to tell me about it, and ask me to come and get him, as he was not hurt much at all.
When I asked him about the car, he replied that he didn't really know, except that the windshield was broken, since he had crawled out of it to get out of the car. The car landed upside down, and he was disoriented, and said he crawled around in the car until he finally found the open window, and got out of the car that way.
After picking him up, we next went to look at the car, and get his tools and lunchpail out of the wrecked car, which was towed to a wrecking lot.
When we got there, the owner asked my husband how he got out of the car, and he explained how he had crawled around until he found the open window. To our amazement, the owner said that he could not possibly have done that, and they couldn't figure out how he got out.
The car was found upside down, all windows rolled up, and wedged in between two trees so tightly that the doors could not have been opened.
We thought he might have actually been thrown out as the car went over the bank, but then how to explain the blood spots on the inside roof of the upside down car where he had been crawling around, praying to find a way out.
Also, he would have been at least bruised from being thrown out, and he was not bruised, and just had a cut on his chin from hitting the windshield as the car went over the bank.
This is certainly not an NDE, but it is one of those things that sometimes happen to us in life, with no logical explanation for them.
Years ago, my first husband was in a car wreck, and called me the next morning from the hospital, to tell me about it, and ask me to come and get him, as he was not hurt much at all.
When I asked him about the car, he replied that he didn't really know, except that the windshield was broken, since he had crawled out of it to get out of the car. The car landed upside down, and he was disoriented, and said he crawled around in the car until he finally found the open window, and got out of the car that way.
After picking him up, we next went to look at the car, and get his tools and lunchpail out of the wrecked car, which was towed to a wrecking lot.
When we got there, the owner asked my husband how he got out of the car, and he explained how he had crawled around until he found the open window. To our amazement, the owner said that he could not possibly have done that, and they couldn't figure out how he got out.
The car was found upside down, all windows rolled up, and wedged in between two trees so tightly that the doors could not have been opened.
We thought he might have actually been thrown out as the car went over the bank, but then how to explain the blood spots on the inside roof of the upside down car where he had been crawling around, praying to find a way out.
Also, he would have been at least bruised from being thrown out, and he was not bruised, and just had a cut on his chin from hitting the windshield as the car went over the bank.
This is certainly not an NDE, but it is one of those things that sometimes happen to us in life, with no logical explanation for them.
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
"Hello, this is the Guilt Central operator - will you accept a collect call from your Mother?"
Now, I was with you up to the point where you dissed spiritual enlightenment.
Are you talking about NDEs or true spiritual enlightenment? Because the numbers are nowhere near equal - the number of people that have claimed NDEs are perhaps 1% of those who claim enlightenment, and even given the Western misinterpretations of that spiritual state there are bound to be people that you yourself have met that would qualify as being "enlightened".
Of course, it all depends on your word-usage, right?
In my kingdom (Philstavia, "where the livin's as easy as the women") "enlightenment" is merely a term for someone who has achieved a high degree of mastery over their mind and body. Taoists called it becoming "the Perfect Human"; Buddhists, "Arahat". Bereft of all the sky-king mumbo-jumbo they all equal someone who has successfully followed a path of personal development.
And I don't mean that in the modern Western sense of "conquering your fear of spiders" or "how to get your boss to like you" or even "slaying your chocolate demon" - I'm talking about the honing of a set of life philosophies and principles that allow you to deal with life in an equanimous manner, about keeping your center when all around you are falling off the merry-go-round.
So yes, relating how you got a boo-boo and proceeded to stroll through the Pearly Gates and play Frisbee is a LOT different than creating a stronger, more balanced "spirit" through mindfulness, focus and healthy, natural habits.
/rant
Ina
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harris County, NE of Houston, Tx.
I'm not a religious person, and I don't believe that we go to a good or bad place after death. One thing has always stuck with me. I know I'm not quoteing this correctly, "you cannot destroy matter or energy, you can only change its form." Maybe next time around I'll be cosmic dust or a new star.
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
Good thinking Ina, we are all made from recycled star particles. Really really old and much recycled ones but we were all stars once. 
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
Ina
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harris County, NE of Houston, Tx.
You got my thinking Sifuphil, we came from somewhere, and I don't think dying stops our journey. And I think of the infinity theory.
Ina
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harris County, NE of Houston, Tx.
I Know I'm showing my ignorance now, but my father stop my education in the fifth grade. He believed girl didn't need anymore education just to raise babies. I did start junior college at 35, but it still left a big whole in in,my basics.
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
If you like, actually I put it down to sheer terror that she was back and my blissful 'retirement' was over.
Now, I was with you up to the point where you dissed spiritual enlightenment.
Are you talking about NDEs or true spiritual enlightenment? Because the numbers are nowhere near equal - the number of people that have claimed NDEs are perhaps 1% of those who claim enlightenment, and even given the Western misinterpretations of that spiritual state there are bound to be people that you yourself have met that would qualify as being "enlightened".
Of course, it all depends on your word-usage, right?
In my kingdom (Philstavia, "where the livin's as easy as the women") "enlightenment" is merely a term for someone who has achieved a high degree of mastery over their mind and body. Taoists called it becoming "the Perfect Human"; Buddhists, "Arahat". Bereft of all the sky-king mumbo-jumbo they all equal someone who has successfully followed a path of personal development.
And I don't mean that in the modern Western sense of "conquering your fear of spiders" or "how to get your boss to like you" or even "slaying your chocolate demon" - I'm talking about the honing of a set of life philosophies and principles that allow you to deal with life in an equanimous manner, about keeping your center when all around you are falling off the merry-go-round.
So yes, relating how you got a boo-boo and proceeded to stroll through the Pearly Gates and play Frisbee is a LOT different than creating a stronger, more balanced "spirit" through mindfulness, focus and healthy, natural habits.
/rant
Yes, difference in interpretation of enlightenment. We 'study' it from opposing poles so you see the higher minded side of it. While from my ever jaded and cynical viewpoint it is a manifestation of pretence exhibited by the pixies of the crystal and ankle bell wearing brigade to impress others that doing bugger all to earn a living is really their calling in life and should be funded by us as such.
So I tend to use 'enlightenment' in somewhat sarcastic and derogatory terms usually. What seems a particularly well thought out logical philosophy of anything, from behaviour to health regimes to me, is perhaps seen as enlightenment to you. That kind of 'enlightenment' isn't supernatural, just an organically mental process. The kind of 'enlightenment' connected with NDEs etc is seen as spiritual/supernatural though and that's where I draw the line.
Philosophy and understanding of basic truths takes brain work and is earned, enlightenment is too often a self bestowed delusion of supernatural endowment. The closest I go is 'epiphany', an awakening of a truth that previously eluded us, but it doesn't take much IQ to make that happen, kids have epiphanies of 'enlightenment' the first time they grab a hot coffee pot.
But that's just my translation of it here in Jadedsville. We all get to make our own.
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
If you like, actually I put it down to sheer terror that she was back and my blissful 'retirement' was over.
Wow- LMAO!
Yes, difference in interpretation of enlightenment. We 'study' it from opposing poles so you see the higher minded side of it. While from my ever jaded and cynical viewpoint it is a manifestation of pretence exhibited by the pixies of the crystal and ankle bell wearing brigade to impress others that doing bugger all to earn a living is really their calling in life and should be funded by us as such.
So I tend to use 'enlightenment' in somewhat sarcastic and derogatory terms usually. What to me seems a particularly well thought out logical philosophy of anything, from behaviour to health regimes to me, is perhaps seen as enlightenment to you. That kind of 'enlightenment' isn't supernatural, just an organically mental process. The kind of 'enlightenment' connected with NDEs etc is seen as spiritual/supernatural though and that's where I draw the line.
Philosophy and understanding of basic truths takes brain work and is earned, enlightenment is too often a self bestowed delusion of supernatural endowment. The closest I go is 'epiphany', an awakening of a truth that previously eluded us, but it doesn't take much IQ to make that happen, kids have epiphanies of 'enlightenment' the first time they grab a hot coffee pot.
But that's just my translation of it here in Jadedsville. We all get to make our own.
I know, I know - you're playing your role as "Cranky Old Lady #3" in the show and I'm the understudy for "Painfully Handsome New-Ager".
layful:I don't equate much of what passes as modern spiritism (NOT "spiritualism" - totally different beastie to me) with valid methods of enlightenment. Being as my specialty is Eastern arts, I'll take Feng Shui as an example. It's been marketed to Hades and back as being a simple cure for what ails ya'. All you have to do is put this little octagonal mirror in your "Relationship" spot, hang a plastic/bamboo flute over your fish tank and find your "power color", and you'll be happy as a clam and as fertile as the Nile.
Except that it doesn't work that way. Not by the greatest stretch of the imagination. It was originally a method for farmers to determine how and when to plant their crops, and in the more religio-spiritual realm as a way of positioning your loved ones' gravesites so as to ensure their happiness in the afterlife.
Basically they've taken The Farmer's Almanac and turned it into Martha Stewart's Easy Living Tips.
I've attended dozens of holistic fairs, been in the company of holy men and sat through interminable sessions and seminars that covered the A to Z of enlightenment. I've even got my doctorate in Metaphysics - that's how much I was into it. But with few exceptions (one person at the fairs and a few of the holy men) most of what was being foisted off on the public was rubbish. It would take a book to describe the junk that was offered as cures and shortcuts to higher states, but just like the weight-loss field there ARE no shortcuts - you have to put in the work.
Ain't no shortcuts to Nirvana.
(Hey, that's a great book title ...)
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
Cobane found one. 
See that Feng Shui thing is what I'm talkin' about. Pixies use it. The basics of it are just plain horse sense. You don't face your front door down a road unless you want runaway wagons fetching up in your kitchen. You orient the house to make the most the weather conditions so the snow doesnt bank up under the bed . You don't build a house on the spine of a dragon which equates to a ridge in an earthquake prone region, perfectly sensible. No magic in it. But it only works in China, different conditions in different places need different thinking. People making a living out of apply tarted up versions in other places are frauds.
What the hell were we arguing about again??
Oh yes! What do you mean, #3, tadpole !????
See that Feng Shui thing is what I'm talkin' about. Pixies use it. The basics of it are just plain horse sense. You don't face your front door down a road unless you want runaway wagons fetching up in your kitchen. You orient the house to make the most the weather conditions so the snow doesnt bank up under the bed . You don't build a house on the spine of a dragon which equates to a ridge in an earthquake prone region, perfectly sensible. No magic in it. But it only works in China, different conditions in different places need different thinking. People making a living out of apply tarted up versions in other places are frauds.
What the hell were we arguing about again??
Oh yes! What do you mean, #3, tadpole !????
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
Cobane found one.
Oh, that is just so ... so ...
Go to the corner. BAD Di!
Ah, yes, but those frauds make big bucks. Many of them have best-selling books and do-it-yourself Feng Shui "kits", and they're multi-millionaires because of it.
Me, I don't think I could live with myself doing that.
What the hell were we arguing about again??
Oh yes! What do you mean, #3, tadpole !????
Well, if you attended rehearsals instead of hanging out at the pub maybe you'd be #2.
I have an open mind to a lot of these things, but it's hard to completely believe the stories unless you have the experience yourself, kind of like seeing ghosts or spirits. I listen to the coast to coast am radio sometimes at night, and some of their shows discuss these paranormal experiences. So, I've heard a lot of folks calling in with some interesting stories, that do make you think.
I'm not a religious person at all, but like CeeCee, I do think there is some type of Supreme Being or creator. As far as the bible, I also don't think much of it, it was written by men, and revised repeatedly over time.
I was raised as a Catholic, and went to Catholic grade school for eight years, so I was in church pretty much 7 days a week, around nuns and priests, and even was a volunteer to help clean around the altar area in church. They drilled it into our heads that when we die, our lives would flash before us, and God would judge us on everything we did, good or bad.
They say we could be sent straight to heaven, purgatory if we had some minor sins, and hell if we had mortal sins. Of course you went to limbo if you were never baptized, lol. They also said all of our family and friends who have died in the past would be there just as we remembered them, to greet us and make us welcome.
I guess, especially with religious people, if they're told they'll see the light, and be met by those who have passed...it's easy to understand that they may experience that in a weakened state of mind. I sometimes wondered if those near death experiences were just some form of hallucination. When my mother in law was ill in the hospital, she saw rain in the room, her face lit up in wonder, as she explained how it was coming down.
I was hit by a car when I was young, and had a concussion. They said a priest came there in the street and gave me my last rights. I came out of it and didn't remember anything that happened. I had no particular visions or anything like that.
I do believe that our energy somehow lives on, and separates from the body at death. I was with three different relatives shortly after they passed, and I was very open to feeling their spirit above them, or in the room. I never did have any experience with communications like that, although I welcomed it.
I'm not a religious person at all, but like CeeCee, I do think there is some type of Supreme Being or creator. As far as the bible, I also don't think much of it, it was written by men, and revised repeatedly over time.
I was raised as a Catholic, and went to Catholic grade school for eight years, so I was in church pretty much 7 days a week, around nuns and priests, and even was a volunteer to help clean around the altar area in church. They drilled it into our heads that when we die, our lives would flash before us, and God would judge us on everything we did, good or bad.
They say we could be sent straight to heaven, purgatory if we had some minor sins, and hell if we had mortal sins. Of course you went to limbo if you were never baptized, lol. They also said all of our family and friends who have died in the past would be there just as we remembered them, to greet us and make us welcome.
I guess, especially with religious people, if they're told they'll see the light, and be met by those who have passed...it's easy to understand that they may experience that in a weakened state of mind. I sometimes wondered if those near death experiences were just some form of hallucination. When my mother in law was ill in the hospital, she saw rain in the room, her face lit up in wonder, as she explained how it was coming down.
I was hit by a car when I was young, and had a concussion. They said a priest came there in the street and gave me my last rights. I came out of it and didn't remember anything that happened. I had no particular visions or anything like that.
I do believe that our energy somehow lives on, and separates from the body at death. I was with three different relatives shortly after they passed, and I was very open to feeling their spirit above them, or in the room. I never did have any experience with communications like that, although I welcomed it.