Do you hang the flag to celebrate Juneteenth?

VintageBetter

VintageBetter

Senior Member
I sure as heck do and here's why. As you may know, Juneteenth became a Federal holiday to celebrate the end of slavery in 2021. Juneteenth | History, Meaning, Importance, & Facts

It had been celebrated in Texas and a few other states for many years. I don't know about you guys, but I was sure never taught Black History in high school or college so there was much I did not learn about the full, centuries-long scope of prejudice against African Americans. But as a result of President Obama winning the election, much media set about educating the general public about things we did not know from high school and college.

The point iof Juneteenth, as I see it, is to celebrate the ending of an OLD system, the slave system, and to usher in the recognition of a new system. There was a very brief window of time where that happened for African Americans during Reconstruction after 1865, but it was a very brief window and was soon SLAMMED shut by political powers and the status quo.

Now, some people have said Juneteenth is a dumb holiday and we don't need to acknowledge it, but if we acknowledge July 4, how is Juneteenth not nearly equal to July 4? July 4 was celebrated while huge numbers of people in America were trapped for 80+ years as slaves! But, full of hypocrisy, the people in power celebrated "freedom" anyway.

The whole point of the Civil War was to grant the rights and blessings of the Constitution to EVERYONE here - not just to one group. I think that is worth celebrating.
 

No.

I don't live in a slave state and none of my people ever did. No disrespect intended, but we never got any condescending pandering carve-outs like this one and don't expect to. I don't see anything patriotic in it and it seems cynically engineered precisely to sow division. It has a strong aroma of karenism.

If anything the Civil War succeeded in throwing out the last vestiges of British Colonialism and aristocracy, which where slavery in the US has it roots.

British Support During the U.S. Civil War · Liverpool’s Abercromby Square and the Confederacy During the U.S. Civil War · Lowcountry Digital History Initiative
Historians have long debated the success of Confederate attempts to influence British opinion during the Civil War. Many have argued that political and class allegiances determined British support for either the North or the South. According to this view, Britain's politically conservative aristocracy tended to support the Confederacy, due to the supposedly shared sensibilities of the English landed gentry and southern planters.
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Still, public opinion was not the only means of support that Confederates sought from Britain. Despite popular dissent, supplies and money still flowed from Britain into the southern states throughout the Civil War. These resources were vital to the Confederate war effort, especially following the North's imposition of a blockade against the South starting in April 1861. Obtaining a supply of goods and money from Britain required only private business relationships with British merchants and factory owners, not popular or government approval. Britain's premier port of Liverpool offered a trading environment that was favorable to dealing with the renegade states of the Confederacy, and this city soon became a primary base of southern support.
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dilettante said:
No.

I don't live in a slave state and none of my people ever did. No disrespect intended, but we never got any condescending pandering carve-outs like this one and don't expect to. I don't see anything patriotic in it and it seems cynically engineered precisely to sow division. It has a strong aroma of karenism.

If anything the Civil War succeeded in throwing out the last vestiges of British Colonialism and aristocracy, which where slavery in the US has it roots.

British Support During the U.S. Civil War · Liverpool’s Abercromby Square and the Confederacy During the U.S. Civil War · Lowcountry Digital History Initiative
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Very interesting. We were taught very little in school about any of this....
 

I had a Catholic education and we were taught about slavery, the 3/5 rule in the Constituion, free states and slave states, the Civil War, post civil war racism,etc. etc etc.

I am shocked when I hear young adults surprised about the 3/5 rule. Do they really not teach this in school today? Or were these kids sleeping through history class? Same goes with free and slave states, Jim Crowe and more.
 
hollydolly said:
Very interesting. We were taught very little in school about any of this....
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It was mention in school books here in the North, but little space was devoted to it and in class it was not discussed aside from noting it in passing.

A big problem with education in the US was creeping influence from New England in the North and the plantation legacy in the South. Both had benefited from slavery historically and didn't want their roles in it to appear too prominently to future generations.

Vast swathes of the US were predominantly settled by people from outside today's UK and statistically their ethnicity still dominates. But "melting" into the pot meant education in English, leaving them culturally vulnerable to the whims of the Old Guard descendants of colonists along the coasts. One insidious aspect of this is the attempt to spread the blame for slavery among those who had nothing to do with it and even did a lot of the fighting and dying against the Confederacy in the Civil War.

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dilettante said:
It was mention in school books here in the North, but little space was devoted to it and in class it was not discussed aside from noting it in passing.

A big problem with education in the US was creeping influence from New England in the North and the plantation legacy in the South. Both had benefited from slavery historically and didn't want their roles in it to appear too prominently to future generations.

Vast swathes of the US were predominantly settled by people from outside today's UK and statistically their ethnicity still dominates. But "melting" into the pot meant education in English, leaving them culturally vulnerable to the whims of the Old Guard descendants of colonists along the coasts. One insidious aspect of this is the attempt to spread the blame for slavery among those who had nothing to do with it and even did a lot of the fighting and dying against the Confederacy in the Civil War.

View attachment 351896
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the thing also to take into consideration is that the US being a 'new country and very little History compared to all of us in Europe.. so while we were learning about the Stone ages, iron ages.. the middle ages.. the peasants revolts, the industrial revolutions etc.. yours was bound to be much later history , including the slavery issue..
 
hollydolly said:
the thing also to take into consideration is that the US being a 'new country and very little History compared to all of us in Europe.. so while we were learning about the Stone ages, iron ages.. the middle ages.. the peasants revolts, the industrial revolutions etc.. yours was bound to be much later history , including the slavery issue..
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It was also part of the naturalization process in the US during the 19th and 20th Centuries. There was once a strong desire to have a unified nation with a common cultural heritage, or at least awareness and understanding. That did have disadvantages, as immigrant cultures were eroded or eradicated.

I have a book written from the diaries of a young Dutch immigrant girl that said "We found that by learning to speak unaccented English and abandoning traditional dress we were treated as white for the first time in our family's history." The Netherlands of course has its own dark history, not all of it dating back to Spain's brass-knuckled dominance. Its later diaspora was in significant part a genetic culling, literally based on Eugenic theory.

Nutrition is far from the only factor in today's tall Dutch population.
 
hollydolly said:
the thing also to take into consideration is that the US being a 'new country and very little History compared to all of us in Europe.. so while we were learning about the Stone ages, iron ages.. the middle ages.. the peasants revolts, the industrial revolutions etc.. yours was bound to be much later history , including the slavery issue..
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The U.S. is a teenage whippersnapper compared to many other nations. That's true.
 
dilettante said:
It was also part of the naturalization process in the US during the 19th and 20th Centuries. There was once a strong desire to have a unified nation with a common cultural heritage, or at least awareness and understanding. That did have disadvantages, as immigrant cultures were eroded or eradicated.

I have a book written from the diaries of a young Dutch immigrant girl that said "We found that by learning to speak unaccented English and abandoning traditional dress we were treated as white for the first time in our family's history." The Netherlands of course has its own dark history, not all of it dating back to Spain's brass-knuckled dominance. Its later diaspora was in significant part a genetic culling, literally based on Eugenic theory.

Nutrition is far from the only factor in today's tall Dutch population.
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little bit confusing because the Dutch are /were white...
 
VintageBetter said:
The U.S. is a teenage whippersnapper compared to many other nations. That's true.
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That's more myth than reality. Many European nations of today are the result of consolidations of smaller states relatively proximate to the formation of the US. To some extent this was fallout from The Enlightenment (Age of Reason).
Germany first became a country in 1871 when most of the German-speaking nations of Europe were unified under the Prussian crown. However, Germany was split in two after World War II ended in 1945 and put back together in 1990 during the reunification.
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I don't celebrate Juneteenth but of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't

One special event is at the National Archives Museum in Washington D.C. through June 20th, where there will be a display of the original Emancipation Proclamation and General Order No. 3 (enforcing the Emancipation Proclamation to the residents of the U.S. state of Texas).

The National Park Service is also waiving visitor entrance fees on June 19th ... but DO NOT pet the buffaloes
 
Pepper said:
Black History is American History, no matter how many deniers there are.
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Black history is also part of Canadian History. Canada was very much involved with the "Underground Railroad" movement south of the border and was seen as the final destination of many blacks fleeing US slavery in the 1800's.
In Canada they received the rights of all Canadians including to own property, marry, vote - you know; stuff we all do & take for granted. The Canadian Government even provided a reduce price rate on land sales to new immigrants coming north to freedom. Another advantage of slaves escaping to Canada was that it was illegal for "slave chasers" to operate in Canada whereas they operated pretty freely in the US.
 
dilettante said:
I have a book written from the diaries of a young Dutch immigrant girl that said "We found that by learning to speak unaccented English and abandoning traditional dress we were treated as white for the first time in our family's history." The Netherlands of course has its own dark history, not all of it dating back to Spain's brass-knuckled dominance. Its later diaspora was in significant part a genetic culling, literally based on Eugenic theory
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So, similar to the way Irish were treated? - who of course were also white - but seen as a lesser version than 'real whites'
 
VintageBetter said:
The U.S. is a teenage whippersnapper compared to many other nations. That's true.
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The Italy we know today first became a country about the same time as the American Civil War. Culturally, it was ravaged by many other nations for years. Finally, in the 1860s, Garibaldi teamed up with the relatively powerless King of Italy, and with his Thousand Man Army marched up and down the spine if Italy throwing out the foreign invaders. After he had created Italy they set their aims on creating Italians. They are still working on that part. :oops:
 
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The more I think about it the more patriotic "Juneteenth" feels: a celebration of a free nation throwing off another yoke of foreign tyranny and imperialism.
 
I've seen black people interviewed who had never heard of it. Or black wall street. And I'd certainly never heard of either.

They had a celebration in my town. It was on the news. I thought when I'm fully retired, it's something I'd check out.

I don't put a flag out but if I ever do, I think it's a good idea.
 

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