Do you support Obama's immigration reform?

drifter said:
We're are not setting ourselves up for a dictatorship by a President taking executive action. Recent Presidents have issued more executive orders than has President Obama, well, I don't know about President Clinton, he was awfully busy, and we do have that old constitution that keeps us from doing things like this that people worry about. The Congress could negate the whole thing if they wanted to enact a law. Congress seems afraid to enact anything except buck the President. So, I wouldn't worry my mind over a little deal like this one, regardless of what it seems like to some. We're protected, afterall, NSA is watching. And if you have a good memory you will realize the President was merely parapharasing the last President.
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I agree with all you've said, Drifter. Here's more if you're interested...http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/disposition.html




President Barack Obama - (2009-present) = 191 executive orders


President George W. Bush - (2001-2009) = 291 executive orders


President Bill Clinton - (1993-2001) = 364 executive orders


President George H. W. Bush (1989-1993) = 166 executive orders


President Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) = 381 executive orders


President Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) = 320 executive orders


President Gerald Ford (1974-1977) = 169 executive orders


President Richard Nixon (1969-1974) = 346 executive orders
 

Thank you, yes, ma'am, I am interested, and what a tale it tells. It says the guy in the White House ain't half bad, EOwise.
 
To those who believe we shouldn't legalize people, or at least put them on a path to citizenship, I have to ask for your solution.. Mass deportation? I have heard some politicians talking about "Roundin' 'em up and sending them back" Ok... here's the thing. It is estimated that the cost to deport a single person is $12,500.. There are approximately 12 million undocumented people in the US.. Do the math. Even if we had that kind of money, the logistics of rounding up 12 million people and figuring out where to send them would be insurmountable. Many have been here so long they have no homes in their native countries.. So.. I guess, I'm asking WHO here has a solution OTHER than legalizing them. At least if they are here working, they will be paying taxes.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/feds-estimate-deportation-costs-12500-person
 

I think there is a fear they may someday vote. Ofcourse I don't know that. It is the first thing that jumped into my mind. I am subject to, from time to time, an occasional error in judgement my own self.
 
drifter said:
Some people have such a dislike for that man in the White House and most of what he says or does, it has, I think, affected their good judgement. For Republicans it's damned if they do and I hope, damned if they don't. Yes, I support the President's actions. The President didn't go far enough but at least he acted on a problem that has languished unattended for decades.
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There is plenty of dislike on both sides. Just read replies on this board.
 
drifter said:
I think there is a fear they may someday vote. Ofcourse I don't know that. It is the first thing that jumped into my mind. I am subject to, from time to time, an occasional error in judgement my own self.
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Actually that is ONE of the reasons. Hispanics as a block tend to vote Democratic...so any Hispanic added to the voting rolls will likely vote for Democrats.. but they will be more inclined to if Republicans keep stalling on immigration reform. However, the OTHER big reason is AgriBusiness.. These large agricultural corporations depend on illegal laborers that can be paid poorly and even cheated out of wages... Who are they going to complain to after all. Now they will have to treat them fairly.. of course the cost of fairness will be passed on to us.. but we end up paying in one way or another all the time. So what else is new.
 
If I am not mistaken immigration reform was passed and signed into law in 1986.
 
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Bonnie said:
Didn't see/hear Obama's speech last night ....I thought it was only Texas banning "everything Obama", but it seems all the major networks in the country refused to show it. .. reason being "it was too political"...:eek:nthego:
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What? I heard it on my car radio in Sydney, Australia.
How can an announcement of that import be "too political"?
Is politics a secret over there?
 
Sid said:
If I am not mistaken immigration reform was passed and signed into law in 1986.
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As recall it was co-sponsored by members of both parties and signed by a Republican. I didn't think it was a good idea back then either.
Everybody I talking about what a mess we are in, guess I was right.
 
If that is the case, Sid, then I have a mental picture of the population fiddling while Rome is on fire.
Democracy requires people to pay attention. Directly, not through some media baron's smoked glass filter.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
What? I heard it on my car radio in Sydney, Australia.
How can an announcement of that import be "too political"?
Is politics a secret over there?
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Don't forget the major networks are owned by large corporations.. They dictate what they want Americans to hear or not hear. They detest our President and are censuring the airwaves.. You can bet however ALL the nonsensical criticisms and bat$het crazy comments coming from the right will get plenty of airing.
 
Some information I was reading about the historical reasons behind all this illegal immigration of refugees fleeing their countries to the US (and other countries), so perhaps we are partly responsible for creating this problem to begin with?...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/refugee-crisis-border_n_5596125.html


The 57,000 children from Central America who have streamed across the U.S.-Mexico border this year were driven in large part by the United States itself.

While Democrats and Republicans have been pointing fingers at each other, in reality the current wave of migration from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras has its roots in six decades of U.S. policies carried out by members of both parties.

Since the 1950s, the U.S. has sown violence and instability in Central America. Decades of Cold War gamesmanship, together with the relentless global war on drugs, have left a legacy of chaos and brutality in these countries.

In many parts of the region, civil society has given way to lawlessness. It's these conditions the children are escaping.
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Bonnie said:
Didn't see/hear Obama's speech last night ....I thought it was only Texas banning "everything Obama", but it seems all the major networks in the country refused to show it. .. reason being "it was too political"...:eek:nthego:
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Very strange it was all over all the different channels on my television, including NBC , CNN etc, at 6:00pm sharp as advertised here in Arizona.:confused:
 
In reading this thread I did not once see any comments on why we still do not have a locked off border between the US and Mexico. That is what is bothering a lot of folks in the US government, including some of the Democrats too. Efforts to have such effort completed in the many miles of border not yet protected mean the thousands more can come over the border and be another problem for our government. And likely creating another bunch of thousands to worry about after this current group gets taken care of. This is not the first time and effort to correct the problem of far too many unknown folks living in the US.

Extending and reinforcing our border to the south has been an ongoing effort for mainly the conservative side while the left and further left liberals don't seem to think we need to control who lives in the US or if they are registered or not. So years go by and nothing ever seems to get done to properly reinforce and protect our borders.
 
The Senate passed a bipartisan immigration bill long ago. That bill has laid on Boehner's desk for 512 days and he won't allow it to be brought to the House floor or even to committee. Pass a bill!! The Republicans will not do anything that might give an advantage to the other political party. Pass a bill!! What the POTUS did was within his legal authority, but is should not have come to that. Pass a bill!!!

I drove a little over 400 miles, today, 380 of which was in dense fog. So, with my eyes bugging out of my head, I listened to Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, NPR, etc... both sides of the coin. Heard interviews of many Congressmen. It is hughly a partisan issue.

This past couple weeks, I've been sent to a project some miles from home to get it turned around. The contractor is known for his "connections" and is not used to having to perform quality work. He employs all Hispanics, most of which I would guess are undocumented. Was told this week, he has three trailer houses hidden in a timbered acerage he owns where he houses somewhere between 25 and 50 undocumented Hispanics. He pays them $25/day and treats them poorly. They are threatened that he will turn them in if they don't work for peanuts.
Today is different than yesterday for most of these people. If they meet the conditons set forth last night, they will not be citizens... they will not get amnesty.. but they can either demand a fair wage or be free to go find another job. This action should bring people out into the open and have them able to work for a decent living and pay taxes.

This was a step in the right direction. Hopefully, it will motive Congress to actually do something... Pass a bill!!!
 
From the story above I see a likely result of the Democrat Senate leader Harry Reid's failure to read or act on any of the 300 bills the Republicans have written and sent to the Senate with no action from the Harry Reid to allow them to advance and get voted on. We really need both sides of the story on who is writing and getting no follow up. Normally the path for legislation would be from the House and forwarded on to he Senate for review and changes or successful vote. But as we see there are times when the Senate can initiate something to be moved to the House for action. Either way, both sides should take time to review then table or act on the bill. The way things have been going in our Congress it is definitly out of control on the Democra side for sure. And I am sure there are some action from the House that some won't like either. Many won't like these comments even though they are true.
 
More on the southern border fence and the expense involved, and effectiveness...http://theweek.com/article/index/241400/what-would-it-take-to-secure-the-us-mexico-border

How can security be improved?

The Border Patrol could be deployed more efficiently. Currently, nearly 40 percent of the agency's staff is based in Tucson or El Paso, where intense enforcement has resulted in declining numbers of attempted crossings.

San Diego has 80 Border Patrol pilots, while the entire Rio Grande Valley has just 15. To cover more-remote areas, Republican lawmakers such as Michele Bachmann and Ted Cruz have advocated erecting more fencing. Arizona has already committed to raising $50 million in private donations to completely fence off its 370-mile border with Mexico. "It's not complicated," said conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer. "Build the damn fence."

Why hasn't that been done?

The cost and logistical challenges would be immense.

Estimates from Customs and Border Protection suggest a cost of more than $22.4 billion to build a fence along the entire southwestern border, which runs along riverbanks and through remote deserts, marshlands, and hill country.

On top of that would come ongoing maintenance costs: In 2010 alone, the agency repaired 4,037 breaches in the existing fences.

The government would also need to expropriate private land, which would be both expensive and unpopular. And the border would still need policing, as illegal immigrants will try to breach, tunnel under, or climb over any fence. It's also possible, some immigration experts say, that ramping up border security could have unintended consequences.

What would those be?

Many illegal immigrants currently cross the border for seasonal work, then go back over to their families in Mexico. Additional border security could halt that ebb and flow, causing many illegal immigrants to choose to stay in the U.S. in perpetuity.

Advocates of immigration reform argue that since our economy creates a big demand for the low-wage agricultural, factory, restaurant, and service labor that Mexicans provide, the best way to prevent illegal entrants is to create a realistic system that allows people to come and go on temporary work visas.

"It isn't possible to enforce our way out of our immigration problems," said Benjamin Johnson, executive director of the American Immigration Council.
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Grumpy Ol' Man said:
The Senate passed a bipartisan immigration bill long ago. That bill has laid on Boehner's desk for 512 days and he won't allow it to be brought to the House floor or even to committee. Pass a bill!! The Republicans will not do anything that might give an advantage to the other political party. Pass a bill!! What the POTUS did was within his legal authority, but is should not have come to that. Pass a bill!!!

I drove a little over 400 miles, today, 380 of which was in dense fog. So, with my eyes bugging out of my head, I listened to Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, NPR, etc... both sides of the coin. Heard interviews of many Congressmen. It is hughly a partisan issue.

This past couple weeks, I've been sent to a project some miles from home to get it turned around. The contractor is known for his "connections" and is not used to having to perform quality work. He employs all Hispanics, most of which I would guess are undocumented. Was told this week, he has three trailer houses hidden in a timbered acerage he owns where he houses somewhere between 25 and 50 undocumented Hispanics. He pays them $25/day and treats them poorly. They are threatened that he will turn them in if they don't work for peanuts.
Today is different than yesterday for most of these people. If they meet the conditons set forth last night, they will not be citizens... they will not get amnesty.. but they can either demand a fair wage or be free to go find another job. This action should bring people out into the open and have them able to work for a decent living and pay taxes.

This was a step in the right direction. Hopefully, it will motive Congress to actually do something... Pass a bill!!!
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Makes sense to me!
 
Dame Warrigal said:
If that is the case, Sid, then I have a mental picture of the population fiddling while Rome is on fire.
Democracy requires people to pay attention. Directly, not through some media baron's smoked glass filter.
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Your mental picture is pretty much a reality. You must remember our country was not founded as a democracy but a republic. If that concept was followed I don.t think we would be in the shape we are in today.
 
I expect that after the holidays we will have a Congress with no more Reid involved with blocking House bills from any action. We will then have a Republican Senate that likely will not be busy obstructing House bills. Hopefully then we will see some legislation get all the way to Obama and see if he is willing to work with the Congress or just continue to being a radical that wants to do it all on his own without legislation. This should be a eye opening period, these next couple years.
 
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If you take post 45 and 46 of the replies to this thread and put them together you get a true partial picture of the problem. BOTH SIDES of the aisle.
Remember a bill to reform imagration was passed when Regan was president That granted amnesty under certain conditions and made allowances for tighter security measures.
May I also point out the executive branch is responsible to see the laws are carried out. If you don't already know the President is the head of the executive branch.
It seems to me the executive branch has not been doing its job, previous ones as well as this one.
We don't need more bills passed. That just amounts to passing the buck.
Not only have the laws not been enforced we have had interference from, the federal government thwarting the attempts of states along the border to protect their own borders.
 
The difference between a Republic and a Democracy. It seems small but it makes a big difference for each of us. Far too often our current government acts just like for a democracy, which is wrong as can be.

https://www.1215.org

[h=1]REPUBLIC vs. DEMOCRACY[/h]
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

SUMMARY
In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. "Republic" is the proper description of our government, not "democracy." I invite you to join me in raising public awareness regarding that distinction. A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. [NOTE: The word "people" may be either plural or singular. In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think. USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE: In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.]

(And more follows.)
 

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