Do you think we will always have poor people?

Della said:
{I really hate Jesus Christ Superstar LOL}

The Matthew quote is Jesus replying to Judas who was criticizing a woman who had brought scented oil to pour on Jesus. Jesus knew Judas was going to betray him and that he was going to die in a few days, so Jesus needed to make last minute instruction to his followers. One of which was to feed the poor. He also probably thought the woman's choice was none of Judas's business.
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Very true. Jesus was reprimanding Judas whom he knew to be a thief who would steal from the contributions.

John 12:6​
Why wasn’t this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?” 6 Judas did not say this because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief. As keeper of the money bag, he used to take from what was put into it.
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He was also reminding the rest of his followers where true value should be placed.

Matthew 6:19-21​

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.​

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However, what Jesus was not doing was claiming that poverty would exist forever on his Father's Earth, and that is unfortunately, exactly how the scripture is being misunderstood.

So once again, and for the last time, please note that Jesus did not believe nor teach that poverty would forever exist in human society.

First, such a claim would have gone completely contrary to the prophecies concerning the reestablishment of a paradise Earth found in the OT and would have been immediately recognized as heresy.

Second, such a claim would go completely contrary to the promises of a New Earth found in the NT which include the promise that Jesus himself made about the establishment of a New Earth via a Revelation to John.
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Revelation 21:4 ►
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He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Jesus did not lie.
1 Peter 2:22
"He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in His mouth."
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So claiming that Jesus believed otherwise constitutes a misrepresentation of what Jesus taught and believed and is equivalent to the Satanic propaganda that Satan employed at Eden when he called God a liar, when in fact, the deceitful liar was Satan himself.
A behavior we definitely should not want to imitate.
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John 8:44 ►
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You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

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timoc said:
The problem will only be solved when one greedy so and so owns everything, then the people will rise up and likely chop off his/her head and share out everything, only for some other greedy so and so to then amass everything, and the people will chop off his/her head.... perhaps there will be a permanent job for a guillotine operator. 😊
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I recently saw a graph which claimed to represent and compare the shift in the concentration of wealth in the minority of wealthy people against that of the impoverished masses. It compared pre-revolutionary France with the current divide.
We live in interesting times.
 
JustDave said:
I think it will be worse in the future as resources and space become stretched to the breaking point.
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And peoples' tempers too.

There are too many of us. What to do about that? IDK.
 

C50 said:
That was my first thought as well. I believe regardless of how advanced society becomes there will ALWAYS be people who live on the fringe. Even if every person was qarunteed free money some would outright refuse it and others would spend it poorly, that's just how people are.
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As long as the poor have cell phones -- they're not poor. Food should come before technology.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Of course we will always have poor people. There are many factors that perpetuate poverty....one being the rich get richer.
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The problem with this thought is that for this to be true, you have to assume that money (all forms) has a limited supply, which is not true. Poor people are not poor because we ran out of cash/ or credit that they could have. Why we have people that are poor is for many, many, reasons...e.g. Poorly educated/ trained, handicapped in some way, have no access (no work where they live, have no knowledge of how to pursue/ earn money, no money where they live, etc. etc.)
 
chic said:
And peoples' tempers too.

There are too many of us. What to do about that? IDK.
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Earth's limited living space and resources verses unlimited human breeding capacity. Add to that the fact that Earth is 75 percent covered with water and that vast deserts such as the Sahara, Gobi, and Antarctica restrict human occupation.

Timewise 60+ said:
I have always disliked people telling me the meaning of God's words written in the Bible. Pope's, local Priest's, and layman all cannot, in my mind, tell me what the Lord meant when he spoke. That meaning is in each man's heart when he reads Gods words...
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Well, unfortunately for you, the Bible disagrees with your opinion. You see, the writers of the Bible were people, and when they wrote under divine inspiration, they were not considering their writings open to all and any personal interpretations. Why? Well, simple. Because such a policy would engender confusion and defeat the purpose of the messages.

It would also seem to suggest that God is a God of disorder and likes to engender confusion.

1 Corinthians 14:33 ►
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

It would also allow and encourage all types of demonically inspired teachings.

1 Timothy 4:1: “The Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons”
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You know, like the ones Satan started in Eden?

So yes, certainly! You definitely do have the right to reject and to interpret everything you read in the Bible in any way manner or form that you conveniently wish contrary to the advice which you are clearly provided with.

Rev 22:19
18, I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
See that you do everything I command you; do not add to it or subtract from it.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

However, that doesn't mean that such a presumptuous policy is biblically approved nor recommended, nor that I must consider your choice a wise one.

BTW
If indeed my biblical comments annoy you to that degree, you are perfectly free not to see them by placing me on ignore. :)
 
Eupher said:
As long as the poor have cell phones -- they're not poor. Food should come before technology.
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Deprive a teen of a cellphone, and you risk inflicting a nervous breakdown or else risk provoking a violent physical attack.
 
As a Bible reader that considers dominant OOO, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, and inerrancy church dogmas, nonsense. That noted, I still expect SOME scripture like the Gospel of John was indeed mostly inspired and other OT NT scripture in limited ways that serves purpose of being uncertain allowing doubt.

R>>> ...Well, unfortunately for you, the [authorities in Christian denominations that interpret the Bible] Bible disagrees with your opinion. You see, the writers of the Bible were people, and when they [According to church authorities with self serving agendas.] wrote under divine inspiration, they were not considering their writings open to all and any personal interpretations [although many schollars carefully isolated from the general public were always allowed to].

R>>>Why? Well, simple. Because such a policy would engender confusion and defeat the purpose of the messages. [Same reason until the reformation, Bibles were only allowed to be read by the clergy. When Thomas Tyndal's Bible was released after the rise of printing presses, all hell broke loose but thankfully for the rest of us, manipulative authorities were not able to put such back into the bottle.]
 
Eupher said:
As long as the poor have cell phones -- they're not poor. Food should come before technology.
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Cell phones are really not a good measure of financial worth. You can use a cell phone without paying a provider for service, free wifi is everywhere. Getting a free phone is easy I imagine, so many people are always getting the latest and greatest new phones that thousands upon thousands of decent used phones get set aside, heck I've given away three or four myself.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
There will always be poor people, imo. There are poor people in some places, that would be considered middle class in others, etc.
There are people that do not have the means and/or opportunity to eke out an existence. The definition of poor must be clarified.
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Excellent point!

At various times in the USA's recent history, the annual dollar amount used to define "the poverty line" has been raised significantly.

I still contend (re: my previous comment) that knowledge is the solution to poverty.
 
Eupher said:
Nonsense. A cell phone is nothing more than a tool -- not a means to an end.
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A Houston teen sucker-punched a teacher in the face after his cellphone was confiscated, video posted to social media shows.

In a 12-second viral clip making the rounds on Twitter, the agitated student towers over the paunchy educator and repeatedly asks for his “f–king phone.”

“Give me my f—king phone, n—a! I told you to give me my phone! Give me my phone!” the 15-year-old demands.

The teacher calmly replies, “Go sit down,” before the teen steps back and rocks the unsuspecting older man with a right-handed roundhouse punch.

Screams of horror from a bystander out of frame can be heard before the video ends. Incredibly, the teacher stayed on his feet.

Neither student or teacher have been publicly identified

The incident occurred at Lamar High School in Houston, where school principal Rita Graves sent a letter to families vowing such behavior will not be tolerated, according to KHOU 11.

“We do not condone and will not tolerate this type of behavior. It is always our top priority to maintain an environment where our students and staff are safe,” the principal wrote, adding, “Administrators will be looking into the cause of the altercation and continue to evaluate ways to prevent these occurrences in the future.”

“Unfortunately, this kid’s made a huge mistake,” Zeph Capo, union president of the Texas American Federation of Teachers (AFT), told the station.

 
I think that the definition of poor has changed, at least in this country and the western world in general. I don't believe that very many people are on the verge of dying from starvation (although there are probably a few). As a society, we seem to be more in touch with the well-being of others. Yea, I know there are a high percentage of homeless people.
 
Rakaia said:
How about easy access to contraception and abortion?
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Could it be so simple as to PAY women not to have children that they CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE ? Make it a cash incentive, get a stipulated amount, for each year they don't produce a child ? In the long run that would definitely be cheaper than the current systems of children being seized by the Child and Family Services agencies and operating juvenile detention centers for teen agers. JIM.
 
spectratg said:
I think that the definition of poor has changed, at least in this country and the western world in general. I don't believe that very many people are on the verge of dying from starvation (although there are probably a few). As a society, we seem to be more in touch with the well-being of others. Yea, I know there are a high percentage of homeless people.
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I bet that the starving people in Somalia, would kill for the chance to live in a trailer in a holler in Hazard County in eastern Kentucky and collect food stamps. There are degrees of poverty, for sure.
 
Radrook said:
No, it is a sincere question seeking knowledge.
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Ok. Well, for a fairly recent example, look up Venezuela.

Some communist governments that no longer exist were taken over via a coup instigated by their own military or their oligarchs and insiders or an opposing political party. Some were eliminated by their own people through general violence, others via war with another country.
 
Radrook said:
Earth's limited living space and resources verses unlimited human breeding capacity. Add to that the fact that Earth is 75 percent covered with water and that vast deserts such as the Sahara, Gobi, and Antarctica restrict human occupation.


Well, unfortunately for you, the Bible disagrees with your opinion. You see, the writers of the Bible were people, and when they wrote under divine inspiration, they were not considering their writings open to all and any personal interpretations. Why? Well, simple. Because such a policy would engender confusion and defeat the purpose of the messages.

It would also seem to suggest that God is a God of disorder and likes to engender confusion.

​
1 Corinthians 14:33 ►
​
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.



It would also allow and encourage all types of demonically inspired teachings.



You know, like the ones Satan started in Eden?

So yes, certainly! You definitely do have the right to reject and to interpret everything you read in the Bible in any way manner or form that you conveniently wish contrary to the advice which you are clearly provided with.

Rev 22:19
18, I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2
You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
See that you do everything I command you; do not add to it or subtract from it.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

However, that doesn't mean that such a presumptuous policy is biblically approved nor recommended, nor that I must consider your choice a wise one.

BTW
If indeed my biblical comments annoy you to that degree, you are perfectly free not to see them by placing me on ignore. :)
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I don't accept our bible as God's word! That kind of shoots most of your logic, with me anyway! Probably, best to move on...
 
Murrmurr said:
Ok. Well, for a fairly recent example, look up Venezuela.

Some communist governments that no longer exist were taken over via a coup instigated by their own military or their oligarchs and insiders or an opposing political party. Some were eliminated by their own people through general violence, others via war with another country.
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Venezuela went from a democracy to a dictatorship. No communism is mentioned.

Venezuela went from Democracy to Dicatorship
How Venezuela went from a rich democracy to a dictatorship on the brink of collapse
 
Murrmurr said:
Poverty exists when there's a shortage of marketable skills and an absence of personal responsibility and civic duty. Along with fundamental academics, if every kid's education included lessons in personal responsibility and civic duty, and training in skills they demonstrate an interest in or an aptitude for, whether it's plumbing, practicing law, or performing surgery, I think the causes of poverty would primarily be limited to wars, and natural disasters.
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I feel what you say here is benevolent and insightful. The part about a need to inculcate a sense of personal responsibility and civic duty spotlights two important virtues... question being, can schools accomplish this, or should parents be responsible for that? Those personal qualities are often conspicuously in short supply in that segment of people I tried to describe in my post (#26).

Possibly in part due to widespread parenting issues in the 1970s and after, often the needed discussion, messaging, and role modeling may not have been there sufficiently to guide some young people toward doing well as adults. (Again, I don't believe this pattern applies to all poor North Americans.)

To switch focus slightly... it's the case that, in some parts of North America at least, technological change or boom & bust regional economies can result in unemployment, dislocations., and reduced income. These circumstances can taxingly stress moral fiber. And yeah, that's an old-fashioned term, but personal responsibility and civic duty depend on what used to be referred to as moral fiber.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Do you think that some day ( maybe way in the future), we will get it right and we won't have any poor people?
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No, I don't. The capitalist system requires and demands, the poor. It assumes the poor, and the rich. It accepts those in need, and those that don't. Capitalism alone, needs those that have nothing, as much as it demands more than they need.
 

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