E=mc2....the laws of physics....consciousness

hangover said:
Oh, everybody is gong somewhere...Even standing still, you're traveling at a mind boggling speed. The earth spins at 1,500 kilometers per hour...it goes around the sun at 100,000 kilometers per hour...and our solar system travels through the galaxy at 500,000,000 miles per hour. Is it any wonder everybody is so dizzy?

I like your comment on the brain...I think our thoughts travel at the speed of light....and once we are able to use the full potential of our brain, I think we may be able to line up all our atoms on a thought beam, and transport ourselves where ever we want to be in an instant. That may be the answer to time travel.
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Nah. :popcorn:
 

SifuPhil said:
And exactly HOW would you be offended?

Lunatics are no longer placed in asylums, so no special consideration. Deranged? I had that for breakfast.

Sorry - my flag remains at full staff.
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Come on! I "qualified" it with "COULD".......to indicate facetiousness! imp
 
Ameriscot said:
I don't mind sharing. I met him online in 1999 and married him in 2000. I had an interest in living in Ireland or UK and got very lucky to meet the right man.

He says he doesn't think so much about the physics of the brewing but the biology of the yeast and the oxygen and the sugars, etc.
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Thank you for asking him! I had a book when I first considered trying brewing, which showed the reactions as the yeasties "ate" sugar: amazingly complicated with lots of steps. Actually, I suppose, Physics would not apply directly to a single process, like fermentation, unless the Math behind it was being considered. Gettin' to deep, here, for me, this early in the morning! imp
 

chic said:
Einstein said time was the 4th dimension, so could conscious humans aware of the passage of time and the 4th dimesnsion reverse time through metaphysics?
Sadly Einstein, who believed the universe was losing order to randomness, died before he could expound on the dimension of time except to conclude that if a human travels at the speed of light, time stands still for that individual.
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Chic, don't leave out the fact that the quick individual would gain infinite weight, while becoming infinitely small. Now, the Physicists are talking about exceeding the speed of light! imp
 
imp said:
Thank you for asking him! I had a book when I first considered trying brewing, which showed the reactions as the yeasties "ate" sugar: amazingly complicated with lots of steps. Actually, I suppose, Physics would not apply directly to a single process, like fermentation, unless the Math behind it was being considered. Gettin' to deep, here, for me, this early in the morning! imp
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A book hubby bought:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Brew-Ev...86243&sr=8-1&keywords=john+palmer+how+to+brew
 
"Annihilation". 50 or so years ago, an "Anti-electron" was proven to exist. As soon as it encountered a normal electron, POOF, cloud of energy, both masses disappeared! They named this process "Pair Annihilation" Trouble was, there are so many plain old electrons everywhere, the lonely "Positron" as it's called, lasted for only millionths of a second, before encountering an electron and disappearing.

How far we've come: Today, "PET scans" are one of the most definitive (and expensive) medical diagnostic procedures. They have actually harnessed the Positron! Positron Emission Tomography.

Or something like that. Truly amazing advances in Science, while lots of folks still go about killing each other. Some things I don't understand at all. :(

imp
 
Underock1 said:
The mind can do amazing things. The brain and body are inextricably connected, each affecting each other in many ways. No doubt about it. I know that there is much debate over what constitutes thought, consciousness, mind, etc. I see them all as being purely physical processes or the result of physical processes. I grant you that scientific papers are saturated with multi syllabic words, mostly in Latin or German making them inaccessible in many cases. They do have exact meanings related to measurable physical processes. Metaphysics and philosophy are dealing with much more nebulous subjects difficult to describe so the discussions tend to get bogged down in disagreeing over what a particular word means.
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I guess it depends upon what "type" of person you are. For example, my son is a math wiz - when he gets into it with me my eyes start glazing over. But then I pull out my trump card - Bugs Bunny / Looney Toons trivia!

I expected a bigger blow back from you, Phil. I know metaphysics is or at some point has been a big thing to you.
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I don't want to show off. :pride:

No, seriously ... I'm trying to moderate my responses on this forum these days. I'm not always successful, but I try to avoid anything with even a hint of controversy or passion. It always gets me in trouble.

I'm staying vanilla.

Its not for me, but I must qualify that by saying I have only looked at it from the outside.
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That's probably the best place to look at it - at least science has a definite end point. ;)
 
hangover said:
I like your comment on the brain...I think our thoughts travel at the speed of light....
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Our innate reflexes travel faster.

Witness what happens when we stick our hand on a hot stove. That hands flies away before the brain even knows what's going on.

That's coincidentally how I taught self-defense classes - if you wait for the brain to come up with a solution you're in trouble. You have to train those super-fast, automatic reflexes to do what you want.


... and once we are able to use the full potential of our brain, I think we may be able to line up all our atoms on a thought beam, and transport ourselves where ever we want to be in an instant. That may be the answer to time travel.
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Whenever winter sets in here in PA I point all my atoms toward Tahiti.

...

My butt still gets cold, though ... :(
 
SifuPhil said:
Our innate reflexes travel faster.

Witness what happens when we stick our hand on a hot stove. That hands flies away before the brain even knows what's going on.

That's coincidentally how I taught self-defense classes - if you wait for the brain to come up with a solution you're in trouble. You have to train those super-fast, automatic reflexes to do what you want.




Whenever winter sets in here in PA I point all my atoms toward Tahiti.

...

My butt still gets cold, though ... :(
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Phil, I gotta' say I am enjoying your posts more and more. I should probably start a separate thread here. The brain has been one of my central interests from as far back as I can remember. Probably started in my teens. I feel fortunate to have lived to see many of my independent conclusions being verified by modern science. I had known of the recent experiments indicating that the brain makes decisions a few seconds before you are aware of it, but I saw a really impressive experiment on a documentary the other day.
I can't recall the title of the show. Its a new PBS by a Dr Eagleman? At any rate, they set out four stacks of cards with monetary rewards on them. Two of the decks paid off much better than the others. They had subjects turn over the cards one by one. It took the individuals about twenty minutes to decide which were the better decks. Brain monitoring showed that their brains had already made their decisions ten minutes earlier.
 
Underock1 said:
Phil, I gotta' say I am enjoying your posts more and more.
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Like chocolate and heroin, I'm addictive. :rolleyes:

The brain has been one of my central interests from as far back as I can remember. Probably started in my teens. I feel fortunate to have lived to see many of my independent conclusions being verified by modern science. I had known of the recent experiments indicating that the brain makes decisions a few seconds before you are aware of it, but I saw a really impressive experiment on a documentary the other day.
I can't recall the title of the show. Its a new PBS by a Dr Eagleman? At any rate, they set out four stacks of cards with monetary rewards on them. Two of the decks paid off much better than the others. They had subjects turn over the cards one by one. It took the individuals about twenty minutes to decide which were the better decks. Brain monitoring showed that their brains had already made their decisions ten minutes earlier.
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I saw that show - excellent. I have to admit I didn't quite understand what they were going for with that experiment. To me the repetition aspect killed any idea of the brain being faster. In other words, it was learned behavior - different than actual brain speed.

I've always looked at it this way: Jack Benny is walking down the street when a mugger points a gun at him. "Your money or your life", he say. Benny takes a loooong pause while his brain is working.

"Well?" says the mugger.

"I'm thinking, I'm thinking" is Benny's reply.

Classic bit o' Benny. ;)

But seriously, folks ... the experiment on that documentary really didn't prove much to me. Gamblers regularly play hunches, but those too are learned behaviors, not instantaneous decisions.

In other words, to me, at least, the experimental design was flawed. That, or I'm just too stupid to understand what they were going for.
 
SifuPhil said:
We perceive reality, but it probably doesn't need us to exist. We will never know, will we? If we are not conscious then time - and pretty much our lives - cease to exist.

For us.

I spent many years studying metaphysics and I'm still as confused as ever. I like to take Underock's line - that we're all just freak accidents and should just enjoy the ride. This simplifies my life without needing to fall back on myths and legends, or alternately becoming a slave to science.

Einstein was a punk. :playful:
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I think there's an experiment that would say your statement is not correct Phil. It's called the Double Slit Experiment and in a nutshell, here it is.

Everything is made up of particles. As long as no one watches, the particles that make up atoms behave like waves and have no particular locations. But the minute they are observed (by the eye or by a camera or some other measurement device) they behave like particles. If everything is made up of particles, who is it that has observed the 'waves' to cause them to behave like particles. Our reality which is made up of particles of energy must be perceived.....in order for it to exist.

 
Yes. That Jack Benny bit was and is still funny. The point that I got out of the experiment was that the brain had it figured out and had made the decision ten minutes before the individual was aware of it and consciously made it. So who's in charge here?
 
Debby said:
I think there's an experiment that would say your statement is not correct Phil. It's called the Double Slit Experiment and in a nutshell, here it is.

Everything is made up of particles. As long as no one watches, the particles that make up atoms behave like waves and have no particular locations. But the minute they are observed (by the eye or by a camera or some other measurement device) they behave like particles. If everything is made up of particles, who is it that has observed the 'waves' to cause them to behave like particles. Our reality which is made up of particles of energy must be perceived.....in order for it to exist.

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Thank you for that, Debby. One of the best experimental explanations I have seen. I have to confess its a bit over my head. My gut reaction is that simply observing matter can not affect it. There is no force involved in the process that I know of. I think its a flaw in human perception causing an apparent result. So here I am. Arguing with the world's greatest physicists and standing my ground. To do otherwise would make me crazy. I don't swallow the Schrodinger's cat thing either. So there!:wiggle:
 
SifuPhil said:
Perhaps not in the way you envision, but it HAS been scientifically proven that a person can regulate certain physiological functions - breathing, pulse, blood pressure, etc. - by mind alone.

If you think metaphysics is hung up on words you should take a gander at a scientific paper or two - they're positively OCD compared to metaphysics.
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Bingo. That's what meditation's all about. But that's not metaphysics really. Not from my perspective anyway.
 
Underock1 said:
Thank you for that, Debby. One of the best experimental explanations I have seen. I have to confess its a bit over my head. My gut reaction is that simply observing matter can not affect it. There is no force involved in the process that I know of. I think its a flaw in human perception causing an apparent result. So here I am. Arguing with the world's greatest physicists and standing my ground. To do otherwise would make me crazy. I don't swallow the Schrodinger's cat thing either. So there!:wiggle:
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Well there are still people that think the world is only 6000 years old so all I can say is that you've every right to argue your opinion with anyone, including the scientists who study this stuff ;).
 
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Underock1 said:
Yes. That Jack Benny bit was and is still funny. The point that I got out of the experiment was that the brain had it figured out and had made the decision ten minutes before the individual was aware of it and consciously made it. So who's in charge here?
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That's the brain - I was referring to the body.

The brain has its own agenda, it seems - independent of the body.
 
Debby said:
I think there's an experiment that would say your statement is not correct Phil. It's called the Double Slit Experiment and in a nutshell, here it is.

Everything is made up of particles. As long as no one watches, the particles that make up atoms behave like waves and have no particular locations. But the minute they are observed (by the eye or by a camera or some other measurement device) they behave like particles. If everything is made up of particles, who is it that has observed the 'waves' to cause them to behave like particles. Our reality which is made up of particles of energy must be perceived.....in order for it to exist.
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What you're referring to is called the Copenhagen Interpretation or, more commonly, Schroedinger's Cat or the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. It concerns itself with the effect of observation upon an action, but it is still a random quantum physics entity. Even physicists aren't sure whether the observer can be a human, a machine or an animal, and what exactly the effects of observation are.

In other words, it's a dice roll. It's Schroedinger's cat in the box with the deadly particle - you don't know whether he's alive or dead until you open the box (observing him).

Reality may or may not exist until we observe it. That's why I said it probably doesn't need us to exist - I put my money on the does not side.
 
Underock1 said:
Thank you for that, Debby. One of the best experimental explanations I have seen. I have to confess its a bit over my head. My gut reaction is that simply observing matter can not affect it. There is no force involved in the process that I know of. I think its a flaw in human perception causing an apparent result. So here I am. Arguing with the world's greatest physicists and standing my ground. To do otherwise would make me crazy. I don't swallow the Schrodinger's cat thing either. So there!:wiggle:
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Under, it's here: Heisenberg's uncertainty principle imp
 

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