Enter the Dividend Investor

mathjak107 said:
nonsense ,

if you understood the mechanics of a dividend you would understand why dividends are a wash .
just like a fund that goes ex div and you have more shares at a lower price the next morning stocks do the same thing .

if you reinvest you have the same dollars compounding.

stocks tend to cut or suspend dividends when stocks get hit as well .

the bigger the dividend the bigger the price reduction when it goes ex div .

it is appreciation in share price that is what determines your return .

the dividend is only a withdrawal method
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Simply put, if I buy a stock that is down with the market that will rebound with the market that had a one time increase in it's dividends that has consistently over 10 years delivered consistently increasing dividends, then "nonsense" I will stick with. Yes I do reinvest the dividends. FAST
 

No different then any other stock that rebounds and does not pay a dividend.

all that counts is the total return ……a big dividend pay out is off set by the reduction in share value so again it’s a wash.

it is no different then all those funds that had whopping payouts and equal drops in share value.

when you woke up the next day you had more shares if your reinvested at a lower price and exact same dollars compounding for you at the ring of the bell that you had the day before
 
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mathjak107 said:
No different then any other stock that rebounds and does not pay a dividend.

all that counts is the total return ……a big dividend pay out is off set by the reduction in share value so again it’s a wash.

it is no different then all those funds that had whopping payouts and equal drops in share value.

when you woke up the next day you had more shares if your reinvested at a lower price and exact same dollars compounding for you at the ring of the bell that you had the day before
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Hey, if it's on sale and pay's dividends and will continue to rise in share value while having increasing dividends for years. That good enough for me. I also like to see the volume at greater than 1mil.
 

The problem is we spend 80% of all our investing time somewhere between the last low and last high .

just because a price is lower then The peak does not mean it’s a sale .

all it means is you are below the peak but still likely way above the low .

for that matter I still own some funds I bought in the 1980s .


for those to be a sale they would have to be lower then back then .

what we are really doing over time is buying high and selling higher.

so there really is no such thing as a sale as stocks are only worth what they sell for at any given point in time .

the fact something may be worth more off in the future does not mean it is a sale .

most of our homes are worth more today but that does not mean when we bought them they were on sale ..the fact is that is all they were worth at that point in time .

many stocks will have falling profits as financing costs rise and inflation hits their bottom line ..the fact they are selling for less is because that is all they are worth .

so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale
 
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mathjak107 said:
The problem is we spend 80% of all our investing time somewhere between the last low and last high .

just because a price is lower then The peak does not mean it’s a sale .

all it means is you are below the peak but still likely way above the low .

for that matter I still own some funds I bought in the 1980s .


for those to be a sale they would have to be lower then back then .

what we are really doing over time is buying high and selling higher.

so there really is no such thing as a sale as stocks are only worth what they sell for at any given point in time .

the fact something may be worth more off in the future does not mean it is a sale .

most of our homes are worth more today but that does not mean when we bought them they were on sale ..the fact is that is all they were worth at that point in time tion hits their bottom line ..the fact they are selling for less is because that is all they are worth .

so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale
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I hear ya, but it's all in one's opinion. I say it's on sale if it's low ( from yearly current high's) due to market conditions and not due to value. Right now with inflation, lack of employees and supply issues, some investors have moved to safer grounds for there money driving down prices.... thus a sale.... the company still good and has value. I'll pick it up on the cheap.
 
so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale ..... but that is a sale... selling less today, worth more tomorrow. A can a peas, 69 cents today on sale but tomorrow back to 79 cents.....
 
To make this an interesting conversation, we should talk about investments to look at and then hear opinions on those investments. I believe that would bring interest to this forum. Stocks like FAST, NVDA and say QLYD and so on.
 
More money has been lost trying to be low and sell higher .

the trend is your friend is said for a reason .

we all thought low in 2008 was when stocks fell 2000 points .

well they ended up falling 4000 more triggering stop losses and panicking investors .


more money is made buying high and selling higher as the next stop is usually up unlike trying to be low where the next stop is usually down .

historically we think we are buying low but it really isn’t low when stocks fall as over time markets rise .

that is buying high and selling higher
 
Creek Pirate said:
so don’t confuse future appreciation with some kind of sale ..... but that is a sale... selling less today, worth more tomorrow. A can a peas, 69 cents today on sale but tomorrow back to 79 cents.....
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That sale is assuming somehow that sale of can of peas is worth more then it’s selling for when they reduce the price

that does not happen with stocks most the time since markets are quite efficient and stocks are prices up to that moment based on fear ,greed and perception.

when you go to buy a house and it is appraised and that is the price you are paying in a slump that is the houses value .it may be lower then the peak but it is higher then the lows of decades ago ..that is no sale ,it merely is a value that is worth less for a reason
 
FYI - Latest recap of my investments, one can only hope! 5 months ago I purchased 10 equities aimed at DRIPs. Market was not playing nice so a coupla weeks ago on a Friday when the market responded in my favor. I sold 7 (including BEN & T) of the equities taking profits. Kept the 3 highest yielding and rolled everything back into 5 CDs @ 1.75% & 1.90%, then strengthened my holdings of the 3 remaining ones. All three will be reporting their earnings on the 28th of July, the 1st of Aug and the 3rd of Aug. The reports all have been favorable. Their average annual yield is around 8.32%. Now I have somewhat equal amounts in MMAs, CDs and DRIPs. My 2022 tax returns will be interesting to say the least.
 
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mathjak107 said:
More money has been lost trying to be low and sell higher .

the trend is your friend is said for a reason .

we all thought low in 2008 was when stocks fell 2000 points .

well they ended up falling 4000 more triggering stop losses and panicking investors .


more money is made buying high and selling higher as the next stop is usually up unlike trying to be low where the next stop is usually down .

historically we think we are buying low but it really isn’t low when stocks fall as over time markets rise .

that is buying high and selling higher
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The bottom line is if you know you're getting an equity at a great price, then go for it. Obviously the prices aren't static so of course they'll go higher and lower at some point. One of my funds went down to $42 so I bought as many shares as I could at that time. It didn't take that long for it to get to the $60 range and by Jan 2022 was up to $71.49 a share. When I first bought that fund decades ago, shares were $17 and change. I wish I'd held on to it but I did manage to sell at a profit. I started buying more shares about 4 years ago when it was in the mid to high $30s range. Now it's pushing $60 again with this bear market happening.

BTW I have self tallying spreadsheets that show the value of each of my investments including gains and losses. I have self tallying spreadsheets for the dividends as well that give the same information. So I can see what the gains (or losses) have been on my shares and the reinvested dividends.
@Creek Pirate @Liberty
 
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ManjaroKDE said:
FYI - Latest recap of my investments, one can only hope! 5 months ago I purchased 10 equities aimed at DRIPs. Market was not playing nice so a coupla weeks ago on a Friday when the market responded in my favor. I sold 7 (including BEN & T) of the equities taking profits. Kept the 3 highest yielding and rolled everything back into 5 CDs @ 1.75% & 1.90%, then strengthened my holdings of the 3 remaining ones. All three will be reporting their earnings on the 28th of July, the 1st of Aug and the 3rd of Aug. The reports all have been favorable. Their average annual yield is around 8.32%. Now I have somewhat equal amounts in MMAs, CDs and DRIPs. My 2022 tax returns will be interesting to say the least.
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Annual yield means nothing ..they can yield 50% but if total return stinks you picked a loser
 
OneEyedDiva said:
The bottom line is if you know you're getting an equity at a great price, then go for it. Obviously the prices aren't static so of course they'll go higher and lower at some point. One of my funds went down to $42 so I bought as many shares as I could at that time. It didn't take that long for it to get to the $60 range and by Jan 2022 was up to $71.49 a share. When I first bought that fund decades ago, shares were $17 and change. I wish I'd held on to it but I did manage to sell at a profit. I started buying more shares about 4 years ago when it was in the mid to high $30s range. Now it's pushing $60 again with this bear market happening.

BTW I have self tallying spreadsheets that show the value of each of my investments including gains and losses. I have self tallying spreadsheets for the dividends as well that give the same information. So I can see what the gains (or losses) have been on my shares and the reinvested dividends.
@Creek Pirate @Liberty
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you dont know you are getting a great price until the future .

look at great companies like cisco , ge , kodak , Polaroid , citi bank , gm , etc

all looked like the proverbial "on sale " . when they initially fell . only they never came back to where they were .

this is why i dislike that word on sale .

markets are efficient and based on that moments fear , greed and future perception of the stock they are fairly valued .

they are lower then the last peak and higher then the lows .

with good stocks and funds we are actually buying higher over time not lower as there value increases so they are rarely on sale even in a dip ..

it is no different then a house .

when we buy the house is apraised for current value . if you are buying at that price in a dip , that is all the house is worth .

we just hope over time it rises with inflation and the market like any investment but we bought at fair market value
 
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mathjak107 said:
Annual yield means nothing ..they can yield 50% but if total return stinks you picked a loser
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Total return doesn't mean nothing unless you've sold, had to claim a capital gain and paid taxes. Holding, not reinvesting the dividends is a way to realize a gain, not socking it away into a savings account paying less than 1% then donating it to avoid fees and taxes, or buying useless junk chasing rewards @ 2%.
 
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ManjaroKDE said:
Total return doesn't mean nothing unless you've sold, had to claim a capital gain and paid taxes. Holding, not reinvesting the dividends is a way to realize a gain, not socking it away into a savings account paying less than 1% then donating it to avoid fees and taxes.
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nonsense .

total return is what your investment and portfolio is worth -period .

whether i sell or not that value sets my draw every year .

anyone retiring needs to set a safe withdrawal rate off those values .

in fact unless one maintains at least a 2% real return (inflation adjusted return ) for the first 15 years of a 30 year retirement , then a 4% draw rate will not hold .

never confuse the fact you dont care what your investment is worth with the fact it counts whether you sell or not.

at the end of the day total return is what counts , selling or not .

otherwise it is like saying i am pulling money out of my portfolio but i dont care how the investments are doing .

that is bad financial logic
 
ManjaroKDE said:
FYI - Latest recap of my investments, one can only hope! 5 months ago I purchased 10 equities aimed at DRIPs. Market was not playing nice so a coupla weeks ago on a Friday when the market responded in my favor. I sold 7 (including BEN & T) of the equities taking profits. Kept the 3 highest yielding and rolled everything back into 5 CDs @ 1.75% & 1.90%, then strengthened my holdings of the 3 remaining ones. All three will be reporting their earnings on the 28th of July, the 1st of Aug and the 3rd of Aug. The reports all have been favorable. Their average annual yield is around 8.32%. Now I have somewhat equal amounts in MMAs, CDs and DRIPs. My 2022 tax returns will be interesting to say the least.
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Fidelity has bank CDs you can buy .

I just did a One year ladder in 3,6,9 and 12 month CDs …they pay anywhere from 2.40 to 3%
 
mathjak107 said:
you dont know you are getting a great price until the future .

look at great companies like cisco , ge , kodak , Polaroid , citi bank , gm , etc

all looked like the proverbial "on sale " . when they initially fell . only they never came back to where they were .

this is why i dislike that word on sale .

markets are efficient and based on that moments fear , greed and future perception of the stock they are fairly valued .

they are lower then the last peak and higher then the lows .

with good stocks and funds we are actually buying higher over time not lower as there value increases so they are rarely on sale even in a dip ..

it is no different then a house .

when we buy the house is apraised for current value . if you are buying at that price in a dip , that is all the house is worth .

we just hope over time it rises with inflation and the market like any investment but we bought at fair market value
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Aaaah....apparently you missed the part about me being psychic. :ROFLMAO: Seriously...I am, but not on demand.
 
mathjak107 said:
Fidelity has bank CDs you can buy .

I just did a One year ladder in 3,6,9 and 12 month CDs …they pay anywhere from 2.40 to 3%
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Correct, but looking at my budget the minimums were a little restrictive for my taste. Thanks.

Recap for 07/21/22 markets mostly down. My 3, 2 green-1 red (up .92%, up .75% & dn .54%). Yield 8.30%.
 
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mathjak107 said:
For a one year ladder you need at least 4k
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I got a little too nervous, sold my holdings when they were up. Capital gains will enter the equation next April. Made a little money but wasn't getting rich. The equities I had are up again more since all their earnings are in. Actually it became somewhat of a nervous habit with me. Still buying CDs though, things got a little messed up with Cap1 besides the interest was higher, they also pay more on my savings than I could get elsewhere. Hence, building my own 'ladder'. Slower but the money that was sit aside wasn't earning squat & I could let it sit for the 1 yr maturity window. I guess patience isn't one of my virtues.

What is amazing is I haven't cannibalized my 401K since retirement, only taking out what is required each year.
 
I pulled most everything out of the market when covid hit. I have one account in a low risk area. Just making a little bit now but at least the majority it safe, not jumping in again for now. Things are still to risky for me. I am not a financial wizard so I would rather be safe than sorry.
 
Be sure and tell us when it’s safe to go in ..

I have been an investor since 1987 and there. Never has been a time it didn’t look like we were headed in to some kind of mess.
we are either falling with no bottom insight , in a bubble or waiting for the other shoe to drop .

trying to decide when it’s safe is a losing game
 
mathjak107 said:
Be sure and tell us when it’s safe to go in ..

I have been an investor since 1987 and there. Never has been a time it didn’t look like we were headed in to some kind of mess.
we are either falling with no bottom insight , in a bubble or waiting for the other shoe to drop .

trying to decide when it’s safe is a losing game
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I'm still holding P&G, but even there the stock dropped some $20.00 p/share under the high. And now it is up & down on a day-to-day basis. At much smaller amounts .
 

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