First Day of the 114th.. First Veto!

rkunsaw said:
The money we borrow to give to our enemies would build a lot of bridges.
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The hundreds of billions we have spent in Iraq and Afghanistan would probably suffice to rebuild our entire infrastructure. After 10 years, Iraq has descended into a total mess, and Afghanistan will probably follow suit. We have been "training" their armies for years, so they can stand alone...and still they cannot do the job. It takes 2 or 3 months to take one of our kids from high school and turn him into a decent soldier...but these Muslims take Years???? Now, as part of the agreement to pull out of Afghanistan, Obama is giving Afghanistan 6 billion a year to "continue that training". Baloney...someone in these countries is padding their Swiss bank accounts with our tax dollars.

But, I digress....we were discussing the XL Pipeline. For every argument Against it, I can find 2 or 3 For it. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a Political Football. Those on the Extreme Left are Against it, while those on the Extreme Right are allowing themselves to be distracted and failing to sell this pipeline on its merits. Both extremes need to exit the picture, and let the majority of the people, who see the potential benefits of this project, prevail.
 
It seems like we pay a lot of money per gallon in gas taxes in the US, both state and federal. Where is all this money going, they don't seem to be fixes roads or bridges with it? http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2014/02/07/this-gasoline-tax-map-explains-a-lot/

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Yes, we pay quite a bit in gasoline taxes, but that money is barely keeping up with basic maintenance on the rusty bridges, and potholed roads. The Federal Gasoline tax hasn't been raised since 1993, and it hasn't kept up with the growing needs. People are driving less, and driving far more fuel efficient cars, so the revenues, per vehicle, are actually dropping, but the roads and bridges are still suffering the ravages of time and use. At some point, we are going to have to bite the bullet, and start paying a bit more if we want to keep driving on decent roads. With this lower oil price, this would be a real good time for the Feds and States to start talking about adding some fuel taxes.

Gas prices in Europe are 2 or 3 times what we pay, and most of that is taxes which are used to sustain their mass transit systems. Here, mass transit wouldn't be sustainable except for some of our heavily populated coastal regions, so we need to have decent roads and bridges. Like anything else, you get what you pay for, and we are Not paying for much in the way of roads.
 
And all the while... major corporations are allowed subsidies and tax breaks that in essence makes their tax burden near zero... having them pay a fair share just might address the problem... YET... whenever that is pointed out... the GOP fights to keep them on Welfare... Puzzling...

But the main thing.... for now.. or at least until 2016... the pipeline is dead... and Mother Earth breathes a sigh of relief..
 
Corporations shouldn't be taxed at all. Democrats just don't have simple common sense to see that all costs to produce a product result in higher prices for that product which is paid by the consumer of the product. Higher prices for the product result in less product being sold due to competitors with lower prices. This results in a loss of jobs for those making the product which means those former workers are no longer contributing to the government coffers with taxes but are draining the coffers through unemployment checks and food stamps.

The pipeline is not dead. I believe it will be built.
 
I remind you of this iconic statement by Elizabeth Warren regarding taxation of the wealthy and Corporations... The words ring true..

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there, good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything in your factory. Now look, You built a factory and it turned into something terrific. God bless! Keep a big chunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a chunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."
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QuickSilver said:
And all the while... major corporations are allowed subsidies and tax breaks that in essence makes their tax burden near zero... having them pay a fair share just might address the problem... YET... whenever that is pointed out... the GOP fights to keep them on Welfare... Puzzling...

But the main thing.... for now.. or at least until 2016... the pipeline is dead... and Mother Earth breathes a sigh of relief..
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The main thing is Not so much the Subsidies and Tax Breaks....but Rather how they are levied. Our "Corporate Owned" Congress gives these breaks freely to those who donate lavishly to the election campaigns. If Congress truly had the welfare of our citizens as its priority, it would levy higher taxes on corporations who "Offshore" their production, and put Tariffs on their products...while, at the same time, reducing Corporate Taxes substantially to those companies which bring production back to these shores. BUT...such moves would require a total revamp of our political system and funding of our elections...so as to get government control away from the 1%, and put it back into the hands of the 99%. Yup...When Pigs Fly.

Insofar as the Keystone Pipeline is concerned....this Canadian crude is being moved already, on a daily basis. The Keystone Pipeline would afford a more efficient, and far safer, means of doing so. THAT is the Bottom Line, no matter what Political, or Environmental, arguments are raised.
 
Don M. said:
If Congress truly had the welfare of our citizens as its priority, it would levy higher taxes on corporations who "Offshore" their production, and put Tariffs on their products...while, at the same time, reducing Corporate Taxes substantially to those companies which bring production back to these shores.

BUT...such moves would require a total revamp of our political system and funding of our elections...so as to get government control away from the 1%, and put it back into the hands of the 99%. Yup...When Pigs Fly.

Insofar as the Keystone Pipeline is concerned....this Canadian crude is being moved already, on a daily basis. The Keystone Pipeline would afford a more efficient, and far safer, means of doing so. THAT is the Bottom Line, no matter what Political, or Environmental, arguments are raised.
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I completely agree Don, the corporations that stay in America, create jobs and build up our economy again should be the only ones rewarded with tax breaks. Sadly the 1% corporate powers who basically run the government of the United States are not going to give up the power bestowed on them, why would they, they have the best of all worlds...money and power, isn't that their goal?

If the oil is already coming here by rail, then the pipeline will make things safer, and free up the railroads for transport of other products, correct? The safety hazards of the Keystone Pipeline are being exaggerated by those opposed, IMO.
 
Actually... higher Corporate tax rates KEEP jobs in the country and create MORE JOBS... We just need to do away with the incentives to move jobs overseas and institute fairer trade laws...

Back when the Corporate rate with 94% under Eisenhower and 72% under Clinton, the economy was booming. Jobs were plentiful and business were expanding.. WHY?... because just like now, the incentive of every Corporation is to avoid paying taxes. SO in order to do that, they kept their money in the business. They expanded, they hired more workers, they invested in research and development... They did NOT take out the money and park it in off shore tax havens or hidden accounts. Tax law prevented that. Now they can get away with profit taking at a grand scale to the detriment of the American worker... and sticking the American Tax payer with the full tax burden for things Business uses in higher proportion than the rest of us. ....Roads, infrastructure, police protection, the court system... WE pay the lion share now..

Trickle down is a farce... It doesn't work as has been proven over and over in the 30 years since Reagan sold that bill of goods... Just give Corporations more and more and more.... When are people going to stop falling for that nonsense.. ? Corporations have WRITTEN the tax laws passed by Congress in the last 30 years.. and it really shows... The game has been rigged as Warren states..... rigged by them.
 
"If the oil is already coming here by rail, etc."...........

Yes, hundreds of thousands of barrels of this stuff are on our rail lines daily....and it is a potential disaster waiting to happen. There have been several train wrecks carrying flammable liquids, including this oil, in recent years. The most recent major explosion happened in Lynchburg, VA, in late April of last year. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/30/us-railways-accident-virginia-idUSBREA3T0YW20140430

Last Fall, we were up in the city, and went to a community center where one of our great granddaughters was on a little girls team competing in a basketball tournament. During a break, I went outdoors for a few minutes, just in time to see a train hauling about 50 oil tank cars rumbling past about 100 yards from this community center where hundreds of kids and family member were enjoying the day. Were such a train to have a wreck in such close proximity to a crowded residential area, the carnage could be catastrophic.

On the flip side, there are over 175,000 miles of existing oil and gas pipelines already in constant use in the nation, and I can't remember seeing any reports of any of them blowing up, or leaking their product into the soil. There have been a couple of Natural Gas explosions in residential areas...usually due to some contractor hitting a natural gas pipeline while digging.

Nothing is absolutely foolproof, but the Keystone Pipeline would be a far safer method of moving this oil than what is going on now. Any "Environmentalist" who looked at this situation from an unbiased viewpoint, would have to admit the same.
 
rkunsaw said:
I guess common sense can't be taught.
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I'm playing catch up now since I've read a few things, where do you stand on Social Security benefits RK? This is my biggest concern, yes I'm selfish, but Republicans seem bent on dipping their mits into SS?? I know I may leading off topic, but I'm thinking priorities. So R's want the pipeline, ok, but Rs also seem to want to be able to use SS monies for "other" things.

The only thing I can figure is that folks that don't "need" their SS, or perhaps they didn't get any (do self-employed acquire SS bennies) but I don't know. 62 years old and I'm just now getting a handle on some things. I think I am smart enough to know right from wrong, I sure hope so.
 

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