Forcing religion on people is wrong

IKE said:
This may be a Matrix, SB or computer whiz question.....I'll admit to knowing absolutely diddly squat about running a web site but if a person registers under more than one name and uses the same computer / ISP address doesn't it show up ?
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you can use another isp. And aliases aren't allowed on here. I should know, lol :)

when i I was first banned as CC I would sometimes register when at my daughter's or son's or out somewhere other than Fresno.

Im being honest here.

But in all honesty, I couldn't be myself and that's no fun....was afraid of being recognized.

That's Yongy's problem...she posts the same thing all the time and is very recognizable to older members.
 
If a god of some sort exists, I hope it is nothing like the one depicted in the Bible.
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Amen to that, Youngy. I have often thought that the tyrannical, egotistical dictator portrayed in the Bible would not even be considered a very nice human being, let alone a God.

To get back to the "forcing" question, I think that forcing religion on anyone, regardless of their age, is a form of abuse. People do have a right to politely bring up their religious beliefs,
but if the other person is annoyed or just not interested, that should be the end of the discussion.
 

My parents (legal Guardians), were very much church goes in the Christian Protestant Faith. Only Sunday's they didn't go was when we were visiting my mom's sisters in Michigan. There were weekends that I spent with my two cousins and their family didn't attend church. We attended the early 8:30AM service and I wound up being the person at the door to the sanctuary that would give out the church bulletin to everyone attending that service. I was also in a couple of church plays. I was also baptized.

When I was at Boot Camp (Basic Training) for the Navy, I chose to be the Company Protestant Petty Officer. I would gather all of the Protestant men on Sunday and take them to church. During Basic, I only had to stand one Watch, because I done that.

If I wasn't standing a Watch onboard the ship, I'd sometimes go to church services onboard on Sundays. After I got out of the Navy, I pretty much stopped going to church for many years...…….then, I met my wife. She got me into going back to church and I loved it. She is a very, but not overboard, Christian lady. We both LOVE the Lord and say a prayer every day. We really, really believe the Lord has been there for us many, many times.
 
Yongy said:
I think it is abusive to try to get people to convert to a religion by using threats, especially if aimed at children and the vulnerable.

My parent's were 'born again' evangelical Christian Biblical literalists. My siblings and I had religion forced upon us, we were told we would burn in hell if we didn't get 'saved'. My sadistic paternal grandmother got her kicks describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two! In the end I 'gave my heart to Jesus' when I was eleven. However the doubts about the faith soon became too great to ignore and I lost it by the time I married at 19, and left my home island to live in the UK. I certainly haven't missed it.

My husband, also a lapsed 'born again' Christian, and I firmly believe children should be permitted to make up their own minds about religion. Our three daughters are Christians, the eldest an Anglican Priest, but fortunately they are moderate in their beliefs and not Biblical literalists.

Have other posters had religion forced on them?
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Yes. I was born and raised Roman Catholic. No 6 year old should go to bed at night screaming with fear about hell as the nuns described it all to us everyday for years. I left the church at 16. It was a better decision for me. God is everywhere. Not in a particular denomination of an organized religion.
 
I agree with the OP but I do not think children have the rational ability to make a decision about religion
or religious views. They lack critical thinking until a certain age that will vary.Most adults have little true
critical thinking/skeptical understanding of religion and other issues. (I know because I taught this subject
in college and it takes critical thinking to excel at this.)
So leave religion to those who wish to practice it without persuasion or pressure. Easy to say, hard to do
for some conservative minded theists. Historically, most religious leaders and authorities have pushed their views on
whomever with violence, contempt and arrogance because they feel certain about their beliefs.

I know a huge amount about this but will stop here.
 
Interesting discussion, really . . . I was born into an agnostic family and my parents didn't attend church. My father took me to a church twice so I could see what it was. Boring! At least, that's what I got out of it.

While I was reading this I wondered how anyone could "force" their religion on someone - because religion, being a deep-seated personal belief, isn't something that can be forced. You either believe it or you don't.

It appeared that those who believe the religion was forced on them are talking about times when they were children, when they had to attend Sunday School but didn't want to. Yes, parents do force their children to do things, but that's the only time in your life they can do that unless you're a slave.

Also I see people writing about people threatening them with hell and damnation, which sounds like there was some kind of coercion going on (be good or you'll go to hell). A resentment built up leading to estrangement from the church, from God, or both.

My story is so much different. I was forced to go to Sunday School only twice - my grandmother sent me to Sunday School two times, behind the backs of my agnostic parents, because they used to leave us with her for weeks at a time.

Yes, I was forced to go, because I was a child, and we children did what the adults in our lives asked us to. But I didn't resent it. I found it somewhat interesting and I retained some of that information. Later when my mother heard me singing "Jesus Loves Me" she asked where I learned that, and I don't remember going to Sunday School anymore after that time.

Life goes on. Many, many years passed. I went in and out of a cult. I considered a lot of religions without committing to them. I called myself a label-less believer.

I didn't become a Christian until I was 61 years old, after a crisis in my life. So I probably have a much different perspective of what Christianity is than someone raised by Christian parents. For me, it is a relationship with Jesus. You either have it or you don't. It isn't something one human being can force on another. It doesn't happen that way.

Your parents could force you, as a child, to walk into that church with them. But they couldn't force you to love Jesus.

I'm personally not positively impressed with sidewalk preachers (I've only seen one in my entire lifetime so I'm guessing they're rare.) I think we all know the "Good News" and that means it isn't really "news" to any of us. So there's no need for me to tell you about any of it. You all know Jesus was here, He died on the cross for our sins, etc. . . . what more is there for me to say? All this falls on deaf ears unless you're ready for it.

I spent 61 years not being ready for it, so I understand.

Nobody can force a love of Jesus on anyone. What happened is that your parents, who you apparently didn't respect, forced you to go to church, and you resent it.
 
Yongy said:
I think it is abusive to try to get people to convert to a religion by using threats, especially if aimed at children and the vulnerable.

My parent's were 'born again' evangelical Christian Biblical literalists. My siblings and I had religion forced upon us, we were told we would burn in hell if we didn't get 'saved'. My sadistic paternal grandmother got her kicks describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two! In the end I 'gave my heart to Jesus' when I was eleven. However the doubts about the faith soon became too great to ignore and I lost it by the time I married at 19, and left my home island to live in the UK. I certainly haven't missed it.

My husband, also a lapsed 'born again' Christian, and I firmly believe children should be permitted to make up their own minds about religion. Our three daughters are Christians, the eldest an Anglican Priest, but fortunately they are moderate in their beliefs and not Biblical literalists.

Have other posters had religion forced on them?
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You make very good points, and am intrigued your eldest is an Anglican priest (I'm sure a very well educated and tolerant/well rounded person).

Religion in the days my mother went to a small rural school in the UK was pretty over powering I'd say, and I'm not sure to this day, ten years after she died, how much of a Christian she was.

I do always prefer religions that try to "show me the way", rather than force anything down me, but can resist pretty effectively if anyone tries. At the same time I dislike the tendency to marginalise all religious thought.
 
One of the reasons I love our country... freedom of religion no matter what your faith is OR is not. Our history is full of anger and little to no tolerance of religious differences. My home is not religious but we are spiritual... we do not pray but honor each other as human beings and our differences as human beings. My 6 year old granddaughter spent time over Thanksgiving with another part of our family. Since then she wants to pray before eating ... folds here little hands and gives thanks for who is in her life. It's OK... her heart is in the right place and we grateful for that.

My grandmother was a positive influence in my life... church, sunday school, etc. After she died (I was 10 or so) our church changed preachers and started sermons of fire and damnation if you sinned. I stopped going. In my 30's my daughter spent the Christmas holidays with her father so I was drawn to a friendship with a 7th Day Adventist who did not celebrate the holiday and we went to movies together. I mention this only because her spirit was peaceful, nonjudgental.

The religious do not have to hate the nonbelievers, they only have to show love and live their own lives in it's reflection.
 
While you write a good post Ellejay, I must disagree with your conclusions "What happened is that your parents, who you apparently didn't respect, forced you to go to church, and you resent it." The fact is that when you start looking into it, you can soon start making up your own mind as to whether you believe it or not. At some stage your parents have to say, "OK, you've seen what it's about, you don't have to go if you don't want to." If they fail to do this, they are effectively forcing their views on you.
 
Sometimes getting into a Religious discussion can be kind of fun. We used to be "pestered" by local members of Jehovah's Witnesses....they came around every few weeks with their "offers". One day, they came by while I was out puttering around in my workshop, and feeling kind of Onary. They began their spiel, and I led them on deeper and deeper into discussing various aspects of religion. I held them here for well over an hour, and every time they made a move to leave, I voiced another "opinion". They began to fidget, and I think they were about to have a Bladder issue, and finally they bailed out before they wet their pants. Since then, they haven't been back.
 
Capt Lightning said:
The fact is that when you start looking into it, you can soon start making up your own mind as to whether you believe it or not. At some stage your parents have to say, "OK, you've seen what it's about, you don't have to go if you don't want to." If they fail to do this, they are effectively forcing their views on you.
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Not having been raised in a religious home I have never experienced that. The family dynamic might make you feel forced, maybe something like continuing in high school even though you don't want to go, but it is expected? I imagine that the Christian parents are emotionally involved in wanting their children to be saved so that sets up a confrontation that could be based on high hopes and best intentions, on the part of the parents, along with a strong dose of disappointment and distress.

I do know Christian parents whose children have chosen to live other ways, and they are sad and distressed, concerned about the well-being of their children. Should they be condemned for this?
 
hiraeth2018 said:
.... After she died (I was 10 or so) our church changed preachers and started sermons of fire and damnation if you sinned.
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Biblically speaking, that is the result of sin, and turning from God.


hiraeth2018 said:
The religious do not have to hate the nonbelievers, they only have to show love and live their own lives in it's reflection.
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Complete agreement. I want to point out, sharing God's word, following His laws and encouraging others to do so is not being judgemental. Nor does it mean we 'hate' nonbelievers. :)
 
Well, fellow Seniors, it seems that thanks to the forum "powers that be". the OP of this thread has been escorted to the door. That being said, I have been spending today thinking about the very thought provoking question.
I am a Christian. Born into the Catholic Church, did not find it to my liking and wandered a bit. I was seeking something, just not sure what. Found a Christian church a few years back, and liked the community of the whole place, joined, liked the place, and even got Baptized. What I never much cottoned to was the ministry aspect...going out to the masses and discussing the virtures of the church and telling them why they should join. Not for me. The way I found the church I joined was I went to a friend, said I was looking for a church and asked if he would recommend one. He did.
The pastor of that church left, and I did not much care for the new direction the place was taking, left and joined another.
I did once have a customer in a store I worked at walk up to me and want to hand me a Bible. Told her no thanks....I had my own beliefs. I do not mind one on one discussions with like thinking friends, or conversations as the one here. That is it.
Many years ago, was in a conversation with a very Christian co worker. This was back when I had no church. I told her, honestly, that while I was Christina, I also enjoyed learning about the faiths and beliefs of others, as I know that the earth is very diverse religiously, and I just am interested in knowing the story behind beliefs. Now, I am not talking about worshiping that rock over there, but other organized beliefs, the Jewish faith, Buddism, Hindu and even Muslim. The co worker told me that it was WRONG to want to learn about other faiths as it would just confuse me and make me turn against Christianity. I chose to walk away from that one.

 
Ellejay- -l also recall that song "Jesus loves me, this I know - - - - - ". Learned it as a child in Sunday school and still remember the words today.

I find it hard to understand all the upset from childhood. Sunday school was just one of the normal routines that I did as a child. I made my bed, cleaned my room, helped with chores, sat still at the table and arrived when called for supper, and went to school. none of them were traumatic. They were just what was expected of me, as a child, and most of my friends did the same. Some were Catholic and had to go to catechism on some afternoons that broke up our baseball games but it was "growing up".

There was no sinister plan at work to brainwash us but it did teach us that there was an orderly pattern to our lives and following it was a learning experience for later in life. "It's time for Sunday school" was no different than "it's time to clean your room", when my mom stated it.

We took our kids to Sunday school and church when they were young but once they were in their teens we no longer took them and we stopped ourselves. They have gone on with their lives, a couple still attend church and a couple don't. They raised their kids in this same fashion and as these kids grew, they all followed different paths. No trauma, just a gentle up-bringing in the faith that we followed and then everyone went their own way.

I'm not a religious person but see no harm in children being exposed to a small bit of religious observance as a part of their learning about life.
 
Ellejay, I think that if you had known my parents, you might understand. They never discussed things - didn't question things. Everything was right or wrong, black or white - never a shade of grey. We lived in different worlds.

Do you know the poem "This be the verse" by Philip Larkin?

" They f*** you up, your mum and dad,
they may not mean to but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
and add some extra just for you".
 
The co worker told me that it was WRONG to want to learn about other faiths as it would just confuse me and make me turn against Christianity.
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Marie, that brought back a really old memory from college days. A devout Christian friend said she was afraid to take a philosophy course, and nobody should take such courses, as "you end up an atheist." If that's how strong her faith was, she was probably on the brink of losing it anyway. How sad, to be afraid to think!
 
As a child, to appease my young Aunt who was a devout Christian, our father had us go to church and Bible Camp .. which we hated. Later on, as the youngest, it was me who was made
to go to Church. My parents didn't attend. I think my Aunt figured since I was the youngest, it
would be easy to indoctrinate me.

As a pre-teen, I went to the Catholic church with Italian friends who lived across the lane. Even took communion. My parents didn't know. Later on, I attended the Buddhist church with a couple of girlfriends. I found the different religions to be interesting.

The only religion I find difficult to accept, is, Jehovah's Witnesses. I worked with a young woman who was a JW, who proselytized every lunch break, and condemned the rest of us to
Hell.

Seventh Day Adventist's are very family-oriented. I met a couple of young New Zealander's in Australia who were SDA's, who were not preachy.

I respect anyone's choice of religion .. as long as they don't try to convert me or ram their beliefs down my throat.
 
My oldest brothers tried to make be become a Jehova's Witness when young. Their propaganda magazines creep me out to this day. If I ever see one someplace. I won't touch them except to throw them in the garbage which I have done. My jerk of a brother told me in my 20's: "I used to worry about you being saved but I realized I couldn't keep doing that so I stopped" No wonder I have not spoken to him since 24. I miss nothing except the knowing of a lost brother.
 
If a family member tried to push me to convert to their religion, it would just make me avoid that person. I'm just as stubborn as they come. I've know that for a long time. And that has saved me from some problems, from time to time.
 

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