Freedom quote. Do you agree?

SeniorBen said:
We're all dependent on food, air, and housing. If those things were adequately provided for us and we were able to pursue activities and interests that are important to us without having to worry about the essentials, many of us would feel more free.
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But who would provide them?
 

perChance said:
But who would provide them?
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Ideally, we'd take turns providing them for each other as well as ourselves. And it's entirely possible; some people'll tell you it isn't possible, but they're wrong; it totally is possible. As Darwin said, the human brain is entirely capable of figuring it out.
 
perChance said:
But who would provide them?
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Perhaps some collective organization. Of course, that couldn't happen in today's world, but perhaps it's possible in a few hundred years or so.
 

officerripley said:
Ideally, we'd take turns providing them for each other as well as ourselves. And it's entirely possible; some people'll tell you it isn't possible, but they're wrong; it totally is possible. As Darwin said, the human brain is entirely capable of figuring it out.
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But we don't live in an 'ideal' world.
 
perChance said:
But we don't live in an 'ideal' world.
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No but humans have the brain capacity to make things ideal (or at least closer to it). Unfortunately, some humans just don't want to make things not only ideal but even just a little bit better. Call that attitude whatever you want--I see "I'm just being realistic" a lot--but it's just darn meanness, if you ask me.
 
officerripley said:
Ideally, we'd take turns providing them for each other as well as ourselves. And it's entirely possible; some people'll tell you it isn't possible, but they're wrong; it totally is possible. As Darwin said, the human brain is entirely capable of figuring it out.
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Of course it's possible. But it has never happened, and never will.

The only societies I can think of as possibly being "free" are perhaps Plains Indians -- after the horse and before the railroads -- and maybe some Polynesian peoples.
 
officerripley said:
No but humans have the brain capacity to make things ideal (or at least closer to it). Unfortunately, some humans just don't want to make things not only ideal but even just a little bit better. Call that attitude whatever you want--I see "I'm just being realistic" a lot--but it's just darn meanness, if you ask me.
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You just made my point - not all humans are 'ideal'
 
perChance said:
I agree that girls were 'encouraged' to follow certain paths but I think boys were too - perhaps not every boy wanted to study physics.
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No, but the range of opportunities was much greater for boys than for girls.

I attended a high school that selected girls based on academic potential. We were being groomed for university studies however the range of careers tended to be limited to teaching, nursing, pharmacy and physiotherapy. The thinking was always that we would marry, have children and leave the workforce. Medicine was a possibility but without a full science background (and wealthy parents) there was not much chance of either entry or success.

Boys were able to obtain cadetships with established firms to study engineering. There were no girls studying engineering in 1960 except one lone young woman from Malaysia who was there on a Columbo Plan scholarship as part of Australia's foreign aid program.

Apprenticeships were available for boys to study lots of different trades. Apprenticeships for girls were pretty limited. Hairdressing was the only one I can think of and I know, because my sister had one, that the training of girls did not include haircuts. Haircutting was only taught to men. The girls could only cut hair for perms. Salons would advertise "male haircutter" and of course these men were paid more than the female hairdressers.

How does all of this relate to freedom? It is about the freedom that comes with economic security. When your economic security depends on the benevolence of another you can find that your personal freedom has suddenly become rather limited.
 
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Warrigal said:
No, but the range of opportunities was much greater for boys than for girls.

I attended a high school that selected girls based on academic potential. We were being groomed for university studies however the range of careers tended to be limited to teaching, nursing, pharmacy and physiotherapy. The thinking was always that we would marry, have children and leave the workforce. Medicine was a possibility but without a full science background (and wealthy parents) there was not much chance of either entry or success.

Boys were able to obtain cadetships with established firms to study engineering. There were no girls studying engineering in 1960 except one lone young woman from Malaysia who was there on a Columbo Plan scholarship as part of Australia's foreign aid program.

Apprenticeships were available for boys to study lots of different trades. Apprenticeships for girls were pretty limited. Hairdressing was the only one I can think of and I know, because my sister had one, that the training of girls did not include haircuts. Haircutting was only taught to men. The girls could only cut hair for perms. Salons would advertise "male haircutter" and of course these men were paid more than the female hairdressers.

How does all of this relate to freedom? It is about the freedom that comes with economic security. When your economic security depends on the benevolence of another you can find that your personal freedom has suddenly become rather limited.
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It's sad that you weren't able to pursue your dream. I never felt restricted in high school - math and science courses were available to boys and girls.

I went back to college in 1997 - in my late 40s - to study computer engineering and software design. The class was over 90% male, even though they were starting to encourage girls to get into math, science and technology. Perhaps these fields just don't appeal to most girls.
 
perChance said:
It's sad that you weren't able to pursue your dream. I never felt restricted in high school - math and science courses were available to boys and girls.

I went back to college in 1997 - in my late 40s - to study computer engineering and software design. The class was over 90% male, even though they were starting to encourage girls to get into math, science and technology. Perhaps these fields just don't appeal to most girls.
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It is said that you can't be what you cannot see. Most people when asked to picture a scientist still see a man in a white coat. They see a POTUS as a white male even though the pattern has already been broken with Pres Obama. However, things are changing and women are now able to follow their dreams in the same way that men can. They can even aspire to be astronauts in this age of wonders.
 
SeniorBen said:
"Freedom is measured by the amount of control you have over the things upon which you are dependent."
- C. Wright Mills
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That's a pretty decent stab at it I think, it seems to be applicable to a wide range of aspects, whether it is the freedom for a city dweller to set the thermostat where you want or whether it is the freedom of a self-reliant outdoors-person to control where they live (i.e., in a fertile and livable climate with edible animals etc).
 
fancicoffee13 said:
When you visit other countries, online or otherwise , and see how there is very little freedom, then you will view our freedoms here differently.
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Very true. The practice of marriage forced on young girls is not uncommon in many countries. This has gotten to be such a problem in the UK that the government has formed a Forced Marriage Unit dedicated to stopping the practice, but frequently not successfully. One morning a 12 year old girl is awakened and told that the family is leaving for a wonderful vacation in the mother land -- Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, etc. A day or two after they arrive, that same girl is awakened and told that today is her wedding day!

Slavery is open and common in many countries, as are laws regulating speech. "Pastor David Lynn of Christ Forgiveness Ministries was arrested on June 4, 2019, for preaching the gospel publicly in Toronto, Canada."
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/76681-pastor-arrested-for-preaching-against-homosexuality
BTW, he did not preach against homosexuality, it was just assumed.
Brigitte Bardot, an animal rights advocate, has been arrested and severely fined multiple times for criticizing Muslims and Indians for ritual sacrifice of animals, and even for criticizing Islam for the 9/11 attacks. Here there are those who would criminalize what they term to be hate speech, however they choose to define it. Fortunately they have been stymied by our treasured First Amendment.
 
ElCastor said:
Very true. The practice of marriage forced on young girls is not uncommon in many countries. This has gotten to be such a problem in the UK that the government has formed a Forced Marriage Unit dedicated to stopping the practice, but frequently not successfully. One morning a 12 year old girl is awakened and told that the family is leaving for a wonderful vacation in the mother land -- Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, etc. A day or two after they arrive, that same girl is awakened and told that today is her wedding day!

Slavery is open and common in many countries, as are laws regulating speech. "Pastor David Lynn of Christ Forgiveness Ministries was arrested on June 4, 2019, for preaching the gospel publicly in Toronto, Canada."
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/76681-pastor-arrested-for-preaching-against-homosexuality
BTW, he did not preach against homosexuality, it was just assumed.
Brigitte Bardot, an animal rights advocate, has been arrested and severely fined multiple times for criticizing Muslims and Indians for ritual sacrifice of animals, and even for criticizing Islam for the 9/11 attacks. Here there are those who would criminalize what they term to be hate speech, however they choose to define it. Fortunately they have been stymied by our treasured First Amendment.
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Of course, though, there are those who misuse their so-called freedoms to take away the freedoms and rights of other people:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/bentley-...g-age-9-possibly-married-daughter-fbi-alleges
 
JaniceM said:
Of course, though, there are those who misuse their so-called freedoms to take away the freedoms and rights of other people:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/bentley-...g-age-9-possibly-married-daughter-fbi-alleges
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Yes, but there is a significant difference between criminal behavior which can occur anywhere, and the laws and customs of a foreign country that would never be permitted by the US Constitution. Our Constitution sets us apart from virtually every other country. But, if you can name a country with freedom of thought and speech that exceeds the USA, please share.
 
ElCastor said:
Yes, but there is a significant difference between criminal behavior which can occur anywhere, and the laws and customs of a foreign country that would never be permitted by the US Constitution. Our Constitution sets us apart from virtually every other country. But, if you can name a country with freedom of thought and speech that exceeds the USA, please share.
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Nope, I agree ours is tops... I'm just saying it can be misused.
 
ElCastor said:
Our Constitution sets us apart from virtually every other country. But, if you can name a country with freedom of thought and speech that exceeds the USA, please share.
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Well, at the moment, seems the people of China are working on that.

Next few months oughta get interesting over there
 
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Gary O' said:

Freedom quote. Do you agree?​


Interesting comments

Freedom?
I don't have much of an answer
But
I know this;
The power of choice comes into play
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Choice and willpower.

My father was born in 1925, his father took off before he was born. His mother married and then there were 5 kids in the family. Dad was forced to quit school at 13 to help make ends meet - not an uncommon situation at the time.

He WANTED to learn - after years of working and correspondence courses he went to university and in 1969 graduated with a degree in electrical engineering.

Never give up on your dreams!
 
ElCastor said:
Very true. The practice of marriage forced on young girls is not uncommon in many countries. This has gotten to be such a problem in the UK that the government has formed a Forced Marriage Unit dedicated to stopping the practice, but frequently not successfully. One morning a 12 year old girl is awakened and told that the family is leaving for a wonderful vacation in the mother land -- Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, etc. A day or two after they arrive, that same girl is awakened and told that today is her wedding day!

Slavery is open and common in many countries, as are laws regulating speech. "Pastor David Lynn of Christ Forgiveness Ministries was arrested on June 4, 2019, for preaching the gospel publicly in Toronto, Canada."
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/76681-pastor-arrested-for-preaching-against-homosexuality
BTW, he did not preach against homosexuality, it was just assumed.
Brigitte Bardot, an animal rights advocate, has been arrested and severely fined multiple times for criticizing Muslims and Indians for ritual sacrifice of animals, and even for criticizing Islam for the 9/11 attacks. Here there are those who would criminalize what they term to be hate speech, however they choose to define it. Fortunately they have been stymied by our treasured First Amendment.
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Yes! I am very careful of the words I say, even though I am not popular like these were. It doesn't matter these days.
 
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