Freedom quote. Do you agree?

feywon said:
the 'alternative facts' phenomenon and how while it easier than ever for reasonable people to ascertain and verify facts, it is also easier to convince people who were not taught how to assess the validity information that falsehoods are true.
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I agree that this is a problem, but I am more optimistic. I think its a bit of a phase and people will slowly catch on and reject a lot of what today some call "fake news".

This is nothing new, just a twist with a new name. I suspect as long as the written word has been around some people have presented little or no legitimate well-researched news as news. Using sensation and eye-catching headlines for increased sales or attention. I think it was worse at times in the past when fact checking was harder. The older name for it is "Yellow Journalism" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism And I suspect it was around long before the written word probably back to the advent of language.

Freedom of the press is probably the best way to fight it. Not perfect, but better than any alternative.
 

Lavinia said:
We cannot all have freedom because the freedom of one person removes the freedom of another. (You might need to think about that and the implications of a society where everyone is free to do as they wish.)
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I feel that is what my new neighbor is trying to do. Yes, I see your point.
 
freedom is the elimination of matter having no substance or boundaries that set restrictions to adhere by.
 

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Alligatorob said:
I agree that this is a problem, but I am more optimistic. I think its a bit of a phase and people will slowly catch on and reject a lot of what today some call "fake news".

This is nothing new, just a twist with a new name. I suspect as long as the written word has been around some people have presented little or no legitimate well-researched news as news. Using sensation and eye-catching headlines for increased sales or attention. I think it was worse at times in the past when fact checking was harder. The older name for it is "Yellow Journalism" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism And I suspect it was around long before the written word probably back to the advent of language.

Freedom of the press is probably the best way to fight it. Not perfect, but better than any alternative.
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Well good for you being optimistic, i am not. My Mom read the check out stand 'tabloids back in the 50s and 60s---while smart she was not a terribly deep or analytical thinker---but even she KNEW they were at least 90% BS.
Regarding what i made bold. Disagree greatly because there are way too many sites on Web that are pure misinformation. If one's education has put more emphasis on what to think than how to think (or really how to assess and process info including considering whether the source is accurate, unintentionally mistaken or deliberately lying--and if lying why?) one is at the mercy of the likes of Q-Anon type sites.

And yes Freedom of press is probably best way to combat it, but there need to be sensible restrictions (i.e. against libel, requiring corrections or apologies to be as well placed as the original 'mistake'.) There are government restrictions on our right to free speech--incitement to violence, and 'endangerment' (shouting fire in crowded place) and there is the natural consequence of abusing the right in that everyone else is free to tell person what they think of that person's hate speech, insults, lies. However, that does nothing to teach people how assess whether a site or YouTube Channel is a reliable source of information.

i'm a science nerd i watch a lot of 'space' science videos. But thanks to how my Dad taught me to analyze things i quickly learn when channel is unreliable. i know WHY they use emotion laden words in their titles sometimes (to get views and hopeful entice advertisers or Patrons), and browser newsfeeds to do it like just to get 'views' to keep their advertisers. But i don't have to like it or trust and revisit those sites/channels. i prefer my science straight--especially astrophysical stuff--it is awesome enough it doesn't need to be hyped up. And the truth is that despite living in an age when finding facts is easier than ever--many people won't bother to look, and even many who look are just feeding their confirmation biases. If a source supports what they 'feel' about something they deem it reliable and do not check additional sources.

i have a FB friend i met when in our teens. She always admired 'idealism'. But i'm not as blindly idealistic or optimistic (about humanity in general) as i once was, even tho i deliberately seek out hopeful, inspirational true stories of human interactions. At this point i'm not sure humanity will survive long enough for the 'phase' we're going thru to pass. But i very much hope to be wrong about that.
 
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feywon said:
And the truth is that despite living in an age when finding facts is easier than ever--many people won't bother to look, and even many who look are just feeding their confirmation biases. If a source supports what they 'feel' about something they deem it reliable and do not check additional sources.
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How many times does one encounter "So, and so, said 'this' " xxxxxxx" which 'proves' they are 'that'", when the simple act of searching for a transcript of what was actually said rebuts their stance?

I figure said people are too dumb/lazy to check it out, or they're trying to influence other people who are too dumb/lazy......or, of course, both.
 
Aneeda72 said:
The closest anyone comes to experience true freedom is to live off grid. But the second you interact with anyone, freedom is reduced by society rules and government laws. In democratic countries the illusion of freedom is maintained, but it is an illusion.

Yes, you can walk out of your house at any time. But your house is controlled by many governmental regulations supposedly for the welfare of the residents. Try building a house without building permits.

Then the minute you step out of your house local, state, and federal laws control our so called freedom. There are actually regulations for how high your grass can grow, and if the city decides to get picky, they will measure the height of your grass, and leave a notice to cut your grass. 😂

Even the grass is not free
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With freedom comes responsibility; you have to understand and respect the limitations of Freedom Within a Society. But, yeah, if you don't like the limitations of respecting everyone's freedom, and the freedoms of a robust commerce as well, then off-grid is certainly an option.
 
To be free you must not exist otherwise influence will be a factor in the choices you make. To achieve total freedom you must be free from all influence to choose freely.

I am not free, nor do I expect to be totally free. Most of us grew up during the Viet Nam War and the songs and music that opposed government and civil oppression. It was our time to change world we lived in, unfortunately our dreams of freedom were replaced by family responsibility, making money and losing sight of the dreams we had before we were old.

I don't have the vibrance I once had, I am skeptical of people and ideas, I weigh the facts before committing myself to an agreement. My back aches and I probe my memory to recall the details of my life and put them down on paper, thinking someone might be interested in reading the rantings of a crazy man.

Freedom? Freedom is something everyone wants but can never get enough of.
 
feywon said:
I frequently try to remind those hellbent on curtailing the rights of of others of that line.

Also often say that every 'right' (whether civil, natural or if you believe it is 'God-given') comes with responsibilities, chief among them to extend to and protect those rights for others. Not positive where i got that notion as i've had it since childhood (tho then i talked about in terms of 'fairness'). Perhaps a combo of things my Dad said and the 'Golden Rule'. (Which has been expressed in many cultures, faiths.)
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I was thinking along these lines too. Freedom without moral responsibilities can be very selfish. When my daughter was a child I wanted to raise her to be free as an adult and I gradually extended the extent of her freedom of choices as she grew. However, if she abused her freedom some very serious discussions took place.

I am pleased to say that she has grown up to be a woman who makes her own choices but always takes into consideration the effect of those choices on other people. I am so proud of her.

I also think that freedom is a gendered concept. It means different things to women than it does to men, particularly to women of my generation.
 
Mr. Ed said:
To be free you must not exist otherwise influence will be a factor in the choices you make. To achieve total freedom you must be free from all influence to choose freely.

I am not free, nor do I expect to be totally free. Most of us grew up during the Viet Nam War and the songs and music that opposed government and civil oppression. It was our time to change world we lived in, unfortunately our dreams of freedom were replaced by family responsibility, making money and losing sight of the dreams we had before we were old.

I don't have the vibrance I once had, I am skeptical of people and ideas, I weigh the facts before committing myself to an agreement. My back aches and I probe my memory to recall the details of my life and put them down on paper, thinking someone might be interested in reading the rantings of a crazy man.

Freedom? Freedom is something everyone wants but can never get enough of.
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If you didn't have anything to influence your choices, you wouldn't know how your choices effect others.

I mean, sure, if you don't want to be a member of any sort of society or community, you can go build yourself a hut in some forest or desert and live 100% free, but there's always a chance that some park ranger will come along to inform you you've built your house in a state park or whatever, and it's become an obstacle and an eyesore for the ten-thousand people a week who come to visit or camp out.

Even if you drop out and go off-grid, you can't escape the responsibilities you have to others to avoid being a nuisance and messing up the places where they live. If you've had the right influences in your life, you probably won't have much difficulty figuring out how to make it work.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Freedom is a gender thing particularly to women of your generation? How so? Explain.
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As a child I had much the same freedoms as my male playmates but at puberty things changed. Boys had educational opportunities that were denied to me at my girls only high school. I was being steered towards a more restricted range of occupations. I was very interested in science but was not allowed to study physics before I entered university. It was a handicap because the boys had studied physics for 2 solid years before matriculating.

When the first bank credit cards appeared in Australia I could not apply for one unless a man was prepared to sponsor me as a guarantor. Males had no such restriction.

These might sound like small matters but they are just the tip of the iceberg when it came to limiting my opportunity for self actualisation in the sixties and seventies.

I'm pretty sure that other women of my age have similar stories of limitations placed on girls that did not disadvantage boys to the same extent.
 
Going beyond that self must exist to understand or be free, true freedom is not to exist at all.
 
Warrigal said:
As a child I had much the same freedoms as my male playmates but at puberty things changed. Boys had educational opportunities that were denied to me at my girls only high school. I was being steered towards a more restricted range of occupations. I was very interested in science but was not allowed to study physics before I entered university. It was a handicap because the boys had studied physics for 2 solid years before matriculating.

When the first bank credit cards appeared in Australia I could not apply for one unless a man was prepared to sponsor me as a guarantor. Males had no such restriction.

These might sound like small matters but they are just the tip of the iceberg when it came to limiting my opportunity for self actualisation in the sixties and seventies.

I'm pretty sure that other women of my age have similar stories of limitations placed on girls that did not disadvantage boys to the same extent.
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I agree that girls were 'encouraged' to follow certain paths but I think boys were too - perhaps not every boy wanted to study physics.
 
Mr. Ed said:
If you don’t know you are free, or you are living under the assumption you are free as long as your mind is convinced you are free, in your mind are you not free?
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I meant you must be alive for the experience, free or not free.
 
SeniorBen said:
"Freedom is measured by the amount of control you have over the things upon which you are dependent."
- C. Wright Mills
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I think maybe more accurately, that quote should read: Freedom is measured by the amount of control you have over the things you deem important in your life.

We're all dependent on food, air, and housing. If those things were adequately provided for us and we were able to pursue activities and interests that are important to us without having to worry about the essentials, many of us would feel more free.
 

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