Genesis 2:21 Adam's rib

Lara said:
I never heard of Lilith until today from this thread. I was also in college but still never heard of Lilith.

There are legends that Adam had a wife before Eve who was named Lilith, but this is not found in the Bible. The legends vary significantly, but they all essentially agree that Lilith left Adam because she did not want to submit to him. According to the legends, Lilith was an evil, wicked woman who committed adultery with Satan and produced a race of evil creatures. None of this is true. There is no biblical basis whatsoever for these concepts. There is no one in the Bible named Lilith.

The passage most often pointed to as evidence for Lilith is Isaiah 34:14, which in the NRSV reads, "there too Lilith shall repose." This is a poor translation. Every other major translation of the Bible reads something to the effect of "night creature" or "screech owl." Even if "demon monster named Lilith" was the proper translation of the Hebrew word, Adam is nowhere even hinted at in this passage or its context. Whatever the Lilith was, it is not given any connection whatsoever to Adam or Creation.

The Bible specifically says that Adam and Eve were the first human beings ever created (Genesis 1:26-28; 2:18-25). This "Lilith" myth is popular in some radical feminist movements because Lilith is an example of a woman refusing to submit to male headship. While there are myths outside of the Word of God regarding Lilith, her complete absence from Scripture demonstrates that she is nothing more than a myth.

Reference used: gotquestions.org
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I too learned Lilith would not submit to Adam and that was the problem with her. I read she enticed angels and produced a race of people with them who were a combination of angel and human. I wonder if it was really all a myth or an early form of censorship? Makes a person think. :unsure:
 

oldpop said:
Years ago before the internet I wanted to get into research of the Bible. The problem I ran into was where to start. There are so many versions in so many languages that it is next to impossible to analyze the words for their true meanings. Today it may be a possibility because of our access to information but back then all I had was the library and whatever Bibles I could lay my hands on. King James added to my confusion. I am not a scholar but I am a theorist. I enjoy thinking about things that have no set answers. Which in my opinion is most things.
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Why don't you start with the original Hebrew texts? The ones that have been the same for thousands of years? The ones who made up the story to begin with? Why is that so hard, for goodness sake, and yes, I find the desire to run from the Jews in your "search" to be offensive and what is worse, the greatest sin of all-------Bad Scholarship! Or, since you say you're no scholar---------Bad Theoristship!
 
Pepper said:
Why don't you start with the original Hebrew texts? The ones that have been the same for thousands of years? The ones who made up the story to begin with? Why is that so hard, for goodness sake, and yes, I find the desire to run from the Jews in your "search" to be offensive and what is worse, the greatest sin of all-------Bad Scholarship! Or, since you say you're no scholar---------Bad Theoristship!
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Thank you for your input. Are you speaking of the Tanakh? It too has issues with distortions and alterations that have occurred with rewrites and translations through the centuries. If you are interested in the subject research it a little deeper. You may find it very intriguing and also difficult to find hard facts concerning any of the ancient religious texts.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are probably the closest to the original manuscripts of the Jewish and Hebrew religions that have been discovered so far but even those have their own set of problems with translation and rewrites. It seems we human beings have the tendency to bend things a little to bolster our own individual beliefs and desires.

There are so many ways to interpret all of the religious texts written throughout history and just as many written examples of those interpretations that I came to the conclusion that it was better for me to take what I could use from all the different religions for my own spiritual growth and leave the rest to the scholars of which I am not. I just could not find enough solid information to satisfy my own curiosity.

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oldpop said:
Thank you for your input. Are you speaking of the Tanakh? It too has issues with distortions and alterations that have occurred with rewrites and translations through the centuries. If you are interested in the subject research it a little deeper. You may find it very intriguing and also difficult to find hard facts concerning any of the ancient religious texts.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are probably the closest to the original manuscripts of the Jewish and Hebrew religions that have been discovered so far but even those have their own set of problems with translation and rewrites. It seems we human beings have the tendency to bend things a little to bolster our own individual beliefs and desires.

There are so many ways to interpret all of the religious texts written throughout history and just as many written examples of those interpretations that I came to the conclusion that it was better for me to take what I could use from all the different religions for my own spiritual growth and leave the rest to the scholars of which I am not. I just could not find enough solid information to satisfy my own curiosity.

​

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It is usually hard to pin down ANY myth to one original version. Everyone has their own version.
 
Some more thread related out of the box Genesis speculations.

Gen 2:9
Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Within decades given advances in DNA science, humans will be able to produce meat in vitro. There is already considerable research being done with start-ups now appearing. This would be good for the environment by dispensing with live meat animals like cattle, chicken, pigs, fish.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/23/lab-grown-meat-start-ups-hope-to-make-strides-in-2022.html

On the plant side, research is also uncovering the secrets of plant DNA with an expectation we will eventually be growing nutrients and medical drugs directly from engineered plants. Antibiotics will be directly grown from engineered fungi. All this may take decades.

It relates to this thread about interpretations of Genesis scripture in that the "tree of life" might have been such an engineered life form since one would expect such science advancements with a UIE race. Adam and Eve as well as their descendants per scripture supposedly lived hundreds of years. Because they had been banned, they did not enjoy any benefits of "the tree of life". It may have been that if they were also allowed to consume nutrients from that tree, their lives might have been even longer, maybe much more so. Only so much increased lifespan was possible by improving Earth monkey bodies alone.

If such lifetimes were true, Adam and Eve would have been DNA engineered. Conversely, if a god could do any magic, they would be able to live for any length of time imaginable not just 900 or so years. So no, this points to a superior technological race. And rather interestingly to support that Gen 6:3 later comments on how these special humans would eventually via genetic dilution return to normal lifetimes just as DNA science expects.

Gen 5:4
Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters.
Gen 5:5
So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
Gen 6:3
Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

So what about the "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"? That might be referring to some drug that enhanced a human mind's ability to think. Of course human drugs are already doing so in modest ways, for instance caffeine. Maybe all future humans will be consuming special drugs and nutrients that can enhance our lives.
 
Y'know, one can read and even study The Bible.

But,
if one doesn't study with the aid of The Holy Spirit, and prays for wisdom and understanding, it will all be for naught, just conjecture....

No other book contains the massive history of the world, like The Bible.

There's a golden thread of lineage, even from the beginning, that weaves its unmistakable way thru the Old Testament, even to the birth of Jesus.

Likewise, the exactness of the prophecies, especially in the book of Daniel.

Sorry if this is off topic.

After reading some comments, concepts and speculation, I just felt the need to state this.

No replies needed.
 
senior chef said:
Humans are genetically extremely closely related to Chimpanzees. In fact, humans and chimps share 98.6% of the exact same DNA structure. We are much more closely related to chimps than to gorillas, with whom we share 96% of common DNA.

Does that mean that we evolved from chimps ? NO ! Of course not. BUT we do share a common ancestor. Somewhere, aprox 6 million years ago, we, chimps and humanoids, branched of from a common ancestor. Given enough time and new technology, we will finally identify that common ancestor.
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I was having a similar discussion with someone years ago, when I mentioned about us and the similarities with chimps. You know what they told me? "If that's the case, wouldn't the chimps have evolved also? Why are they still chimps? I couldn't answer that. There are a lot of things I do not know.
 
It's good to include that very common perspective herein. Dogma was the result of some top human religious minds and philosophers. In my view, Jesus may have been from the same lineage as genetically modified Adam, just a few centuries improved. Mary anesthetized, UIE race implants Jesus DNA into womb egg. I hope Jesus really does offer eternal life, though it is easy to rationally expect not, the pilot inside my mind chooses to work to believe. I think eternal life is of vast importance. If UIE's exist, and they love DNA life, and had developed ways to capture electromagnetic water electrolytes, voltage fields of organic lifeforms, one would expect they would offer eternal life to certain intelligent organic creatures they loved because it would be the ultimate gift for a mortal intelligent positive entity with strong ability to love other life, especially their like relatives. That mortal humans have saving hope that they might experience those mortal others they have deeply loved that are otherwise lost.

Eternal life IMO is indeed likely physically possible because what we are I'll speculate with words inadequate for clarity, are these electromagnetic electrolyte brain wave oscillations voltage fields. If eternal life had to store our organic bodies it would not be possible with organic death eternal, irreversible. Electromagnetic voltage fields are different. Vastly different than copper and silicon electronics because that would be too fast for organic tissue mechanical and electrolyte chemical structures. Our organic body electric fields operate at electrolyte speeds that reflect body organic chemical processes. For a race billions of years old, capturing the state of those voltage forces via an XYZ 3-dimenstional scan of that field within our creature brain containers given the vast distance between sizes atoms and of quantum particles and the immensely smaller Planck length. Every moment, zillions of Sun neutrinos pass straight through our bodies and continue passing through our whole planet without hitting anything because they are so so small. After that a like ultra hi detail scan of the organic tissues in order to later model a container with impedance properties similar to whatever organic body.
 
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palides2021 said:
"If that's the case, wouldn't the chimps have evolved also? Why are they still chimps?
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Of course chimps have evolved, just like we have. If you look far enough back their ancestor was not something we'd call a chimp. If they survive in a few million years they will likely evolve into something new.
David777 said:
Adam
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You know he is the subject of the worlds shortest poem, Fleas:

Adam
Had 'em.

http://www.fun-with-words.com/shortest_poem.html
 
I have to put my two cents in on evolution. A lot of people think that evolution is an automatic process that continually causes changes in a species. But, it isn't that simple. Evolution only occurs when a mutation gives an advantage to an individual over it's contemporaries. That individual is more likely to survive and pass on its genes. Most mutations produce negative results and aren't passed on.

Once a species is optimized for its environment, evolution ceases. That's why sharks and crocodiles, among many other species, haven't changed in millions of years. They fit their environment perfectly. And, that's why chimpanzees have stayed the way they are. They don't need to be any smarter for their way of life and physique. They are more agile, strong, and tougher than humans by far. An adult chimpanzee could kick Tarzan's butt.

It's when things change for the worse that evolution really occurs. Most likely that's what happened to our remote ancestors. Only the smarter ones survived and lead to us. And, unfortunately, we aren't going to get any smarter unless the same thing happens again. In fact, civilization has most likely caused a reduction in our average intelligence.
 
Grampa Don said:
That individual is more likely to survive and pass on its genes.
In fact, civilization has most likely caused a reduction in our average intelligence.
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Along those same lines. Today we have treatments for individuals who suffer from serious mental and or physical health issues who otherwise may have not been able to survive long enough to pass on those genes. Does this weaken the human gene pool?
 
Grampa Don said:
Once a species is optimized for its environment, evolution ceases. That's why sharks and crocodiles, among many other species, haven't changed in millions of years.
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I am not sure evolution ceases, it just moves at variable rates.

Sharks and crocodiles we have today are different from those of millions of years ago. Just not so different as we are from our ancestors.
 
oldpop said:
Today we have treatments for individuals who suffer from serious mental and or physical health issues who otherwise may have not been able to survive long enough to pass on those genes. Does this weaken the human gene pool?
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We are doing a lot of things that effect our own evolution, this is just one example.

Lots of more people are able to reproduce and lots of people live to adulthood than happened until very recently. All of that will drive evolution. Hard to make a value judgment like "weaken", but it does have its effect.
Grampa Don said:
civilization has most likely caused a reduction in our average intelligence.
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Possible, for a number of reasons. One is our development of language and recording of information. Now it may be less important for any one individual to figure it all out. Smaller brains use less energy and if that doesn't reduce reproduction then we will evolve smaller brains.
Grampa Don said:
I hope I don't come across as a smart aleck jerk.
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Not at all, not to me anyway.
 
@David777 We all have deep and varying reactions to "how existence came to be", and each individual imagines it differently. You seem to like science ( fiction ) and ancient religious/philosophical subjects. To blend them together is kinda like Dr. Who time traveling to "the garden of eden". :) Maybe even you come close to an anthropologist who deputes the "causation" of the artifact. There are many variations of a theme.
 
Alligatorob said:
Lots of more people are able to reproduce and lots of people live to adulthood than happened until very recently. All of that will drive evolution. Hard to make a value judgment like "weaken", but it does have its effect.
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I was going to say degrade....and thought weaken better. Anyway, "hard to make a value judgement". I did not take this personally but just or clarification I was not trying to judge. I was just posing a question. Everyone in my immediate family died from congestive heart failure. I would say it is a good possibility that it was passed down genetically.

Genetic modification may be the only way to truly eradicate disease from the human genome but a human we will be in charge of the development and implementation of the process. This tells me that more than likely the military will be the first to benefit from it so we can kill more of them than they can of us. After all we are only human.

At first glance this post may seem off topic but it is? As human beings we seem predisposed to kill and conquer each other. Did a creator design this into us or is it an evolutionary trait. Why does it matter? One has to know how it works and what is broke in order to fix it. Once again these are just passing thoughts.
 
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Paco Dennis said:
@David777 We all have deep and varying reactions to "how existence came to be", and each individual imagines it differently. You seem to like science ( fiction ) and ancient religious/philosophical subjects. To blend them together is kinda like Dr. Who time traveling to "the garden of eden". :) Maybe even you come close to an anthropologist who deputes the "causation" of the artifact. There are many variations of a theme.
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I hear ya Paco Dennis. Anything that stimulates the two brain cells I have left after the 1970's is a plus for me. The various thoughts and conversation that others have about about creation and the non ordinary do just that and I tend to welcome it. That is if it is a civil conversion.
 
palides2021 said:
I was having a similar discussion with someone years ago, when I mentioned about us and the similarities with chimps. You know what they told me? "If that's the case, wouldn't the chimps have evolved also? Why are they still chimps? I couldn't answer that. There are a lot of things I do not know.
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this is an extremely complex question. Time and space does not allow me to go into much detail, but.... There are several possibilities.
1st, evolution is often a freak occurrence. Just as it is a freak occurrence when a person is born with two heads, (a strongly negative) , a proto-hominid was born with the ability to stand completely up-right and walk. That freak occurrence sets the stage for that individual to use both hands while carrying food back to the group/mate.
When proto-hominids began eating meat, the high protein content fed the brain AND caused it to grow.
2nd, given enough time, chimps might have eventually evolved into a higher form, but humans have now interfered and it is unlikely that chimps will ever evolve to a much higher form.
 
oldpop said:
I hear ya Paco Dennis. Anything that stimulates the two brain cells I have left after the 1970's is a plus for me. The various thoughts and conversation that others have about about creation and the non ordinary do just that and I tend to welcome it. That is if it is a civil conversion.
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I enjoy alternative narratives to "traditional" beliefs/dogmas/theories. Nothing is what we imagine it to be. Looking at a phenomena from as many points of view/angles is a great way to understand WHAT the phenomena is. We have good conversations about traditional things, so why not have fun and discuss other possibilities too? No one is going to get this stuff right no matter how much they believe it. A little doubt and investagtion can't hurt. :)
 
Paco Dennis said:
I enjoy alternative narratives to "traditional" beliefs/dogmas/theories. Nothing is what we imagine it to be. Looking at a phenomena from as many points of view/angles is a great way to understand WHAT the phenomena is. We have good conversations about traditional things, so why not have fun and discuss other possibilities too? No one is going to get this stuff right no matter how much they believe it. A little doubt and investagtion can't hurt. :)
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I wholeheartedly agree.
 

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