George Floyd was a victim

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MarciKS said:
i've seen other videos where they were arresting him and having to struggle with him. so yes the cop killed him and it was awful. i saw that. but, other times they've had to struggle with him means that they would likely go in expecting to fight with him too. not being a cop i'm sure there is a level of difficulty in never knowing what to expect.
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You said it... "other videos", however, by all accounts, such was not the case this time around, at least not what evidence indicates.
 

MarciKS said:
i've seen other videos where they were arresting him and having to struggle with him. so yes the cop killed him and it was awful. i saw that. but, other times they've had to struggle with him means that they would likely go in expecting to fight with him too. not being a cop i'm sure there is a level of difficulty in never knowing what to expect.
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Are other videos circulating showing George Floyd being arrested on previous occasions, (have I understood you correctly?)?
 
Sunny said:
Interesting quote, Been There. I don't think that MLK was in favor of riots; all I have ever heard about him his whole life was anti-violence. I think what he was saying here is that when people are stuck in intolerable living conditions, with no other hope of improvement , they are driven to violent behavior out of desperation. That isn't supporting the violence; it's just ruefully explaining why people are driven to it. He thought that was a tragic thing, not a thing that he was promoting.
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I apologize for misleading you. I didn't mean to infer that he was in favor of them, but he never ruled them out that they were always a possibility that they could happen if they (the protesters) were not being taken seriously. However, in one speech that he gave in Atlanta just 3 years before he was killed, he did state that when people do not act upon what the protesters are asking for, riots are always a possibility. It's something that we should always be aware of. Was that a veiled threat? I guess it all depends on how you wish to interpret it.

My grandmother took me to his event in Atlanta in 1965. I was just a young man back then, but it was one of those moments in your life that you never forget. Who knew that three years later he would be dead?
 

Been There said:
A lot of inner city schools are failing for a few reasons. One is they cannot recruit the better teachers. They do not want to teach at inner city schools because many of the students are disruptive and have behavioral problems. Most inner city schools receive more money than urban schools, but they must qualify by their student rankings, which they have failed to do. More money would provide a better education through purchasing modern books and technology tools, like computers. They could also pay their teachers more money, but because of the reasons stated, they will not come into the cities.

The majority of inner city black kids come from single family homes. No guidance, no discipline equals a poor education. Compare that to many of the former DACA kids now being professionals. Inner city blight produces gang-bangers and drug dealers. Gangs also run rampant.

As we watch what’s going on now with Black Lives Matter and all the money being thrown their way, it’s not going to produce better opportunities for young blacks. Where are those millions of dollars going? Anyone know?





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I read that about single family homes decades ago, although race and 'inner city' wasn't even mentioned.. it was said kids from single parent homes are virtually destined to fail in every aspect of their lives. One of my kids and I had a good laugh over that- as said kid had recently had an impressive score on SAT.
My kids are college-educated professionals, and never been in any trouble whatsoever.
So it's not about family composition- but what the parents and kids together do with it.
 
rgp said:
Oh, so we are permitted to bring up the past record of the officer ? But we are not permitted to do the same of the career criminal ?
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For purposes of a civil suit against the city for negligent hiring and retention, you betcha they can bring that up. It would be the whole point of the suit -- that the city had been put on actual notice for years that the cop was a loose cannon.

Civil litigation and criminal law are two completely different colored horses, with different law and different rules.
 
grahamg said:
Are other videos circulating showing George Floyd being arrested on previous occasions, (have I understood you correctly?)?
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i was looking for the one on youtube and others popped up from previous arrests where there was footage of struggle.
 
Aunt Marg said:
You said it... "other videos", however, by all accounts, such was not the case this time around, at least not what evidence indicates.
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yes but in most normal conditions it is damned difficult to know what a suspect is gonna do. and given that he has fought them before, i can see where this woulda got real ugly real fast.

that officer wanted to kill him. you could see that clearly but, what ticks me off here is the fact that had the tables been turned that day and george had gotten the upper hand and the cop had died...

same ahole cop that set out to kill him, let's say george kills the cop instead. just for a hypothetical. we would be having this same argument in reverse. everyone would be glorifying the cop who died on duty and ostracizing george the criminal.

what is important is that someone died. doesn't matter what their job was or what their color was. someone died that day unnecessarily. it isn't just black lives that matter. all lives matter.

and if we didn't have crime, we wouldn't need cops. if people could behave properly we wouldn't have all this destruction. all this hate. but people are aholes and they just can't obey laws and get along. and in some cases people die because of it. if people would change the way they are and the way they choose to live, this world could be a better place to be. but no one wants to. they are only interested in themselves.

so while we're fighting about all this, keep all this in mind. it isn't just the cops fault. as a society we are a pita because we can't manage to stay out of trouble and be kind to one another. crap we're taught to do as children.
 
MarciKS said:
why? why is it ok to bring up one and not the other? i think it's only fair.
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Because ones a criminal case and ones a civil case.
MarciKS said:
i've seen other videos where they were arresting him and having to struggle with him. so yes the cop killed him and it was awful. i saw that. but, other times they've had to struggle with him means that they would likely go in expecting to fight with him too. not being a cop i'm sure there is a level of difficulty in never knowing what to expect.
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Can you show these videos you are referring to please? I never saw this but I may have missed them.
 
https://thecourierdaily.com/george-floyd-criminal-past-record-arrest/20177/

I'm not saying he deserved to die. I'm just saying when you're dealing with a career criminal that's violent the restraint may be necessary to keep the cop safe as well as the criminal. Clearly in this case it did not happen that way. But in normal situations, the restraint is protective. As I said, had the tables been turned we'd be praising that officer for dying in the line of duty even if we didn't know he'd planned on killing George that day. That's the point I'm trying to make.

There are no guarantees in life but, if a person stacks the odds against themselves then this is usually the end result whether it was right or wrong.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword"
~Aeschylus Agamemnon 1558
 
The video only proves that Mr. Floyd was murdered by Officer Chauvin. It is completely irrelevant what was said between the two or whether or not there was a struggle. Once Floyd was handcuffed, there was no reason to strangle him over a 9-minute period. There is no getting around that fact.
Police officers who are capable of killing a handcuffed suspect over a previous argument, insult by a suspect, or a struggle are out-of-control psychos who have no business in law enforcement.
And anyone who thinks these officers were justified is a complete moron.
 
first off i never said they were justified in doing what they did. if you go back and read you will see that.

i also think calling people names when you don't agree is ridiculous. this isn't 3rd grade.
 
MarciKS said:
https://thecourierdaily.com/george-floyd-criminal-past-record-arrest/20177/

I'm not saying he deserved to die. I'm just saying when you're dealing with a career criminal that's violent the restraint may be necessary to keep the cop safe as well as the criminal. Clearly in this case it did not happen that way. But in normal situations, the restraint is protective. As I said, had the tables been turned we'd be praising that officer for dying in the line of duty even if we didn't know he'd planned on killing George that day. That's the point I'm trying to make.

There are no guarantees in life but, if a person stacks the odds against themselves then this is usually the end result whether it was right or wrong.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword"
~Aeschylus Agamemnon 1558
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Mr. Floyd was already restrained the moment he was handcuffed. Therefore, his "violent career criminal status" is completely irrelevant.

"Violent Career Criminal??"
Mass murderers like Charles Manson were far more evil than Mr. Floyd. He was handcuffed & booked. Not strangled, not abused in any way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader

Dennis Rador - BTK Killer - (Bind, Torture, Kill) Tortured & killed 10. Arrested without incident
Name Sex Age Date of Death Place of Death Cause of Death Weapon Used
Joseph Otero M 39 January 15, 1974 803 North Edgemoor Street, Wichita Suffocated Plastic bag
Julia Maria Otero F 33 Strangled Rope
Joseph Otero, Jr. M 9 Suffocated Plastic bag
Josephine Otero F 11 Hanged Rope
Kathryn Doreen Bright F 21 April 4, 1974 3217 East 13th Street North, Wichita
died at Wesley Medical Center.		Stabbed three times
in abdomen[70] 		Knife
Shirley Ruth Vian Relford F 24 March 17, 1977 1311 South Hydraulic Street, Wichita Strangled Rope
Nancy Jo Fox F 25 December 8, 1977 843 South Pershing Street, Wichita Strangled Belt
Marine Wallace Hedge F 53 April 27, 1985 6254 North Independence Street,
Park City		Strangled Hand(s)
Vicki Lynn Wegerle F 28 September 16, 1986 2404 West 13th Street North, Wichita Strangled Nylon stocking
Dolores Earline Johnson Davis F 62 January 19, 1991 6226 North Hillside Street, Wichita Strangled Pantyhose
 
George Floyd was a very strong looking man, and had been an athlete, so you wouldn't have to be Perry Mason to bring this aspect out in court, as some kind of mitigation, but as you say, so much else does not make sense so far as the action of the policeman kneeling on him for so long as shown, and repeatedly commented upon.

The actions, or inactions/failure to stop what was going on, by the other officers is more complex. One thing is for absolute certain, everyone of them, if they had their lives to live over again, would want to behave differently we can assume. I suppose you could say, elsewhere in this world, where democracy isn't well entrenched, or doesn't exist, a great many suspects must die without anyone getting to hear about it.
 
grahamg said:
George Floyd was a very strong looking man, and had been an athlete, so you wouldn't have to be Perry Mason to bring this aspect out in court, as some kind of mitigation, but as you say, so much else does not make sense so far as the action of the policeman kneeling on him for so long as shown, and repeatedly commented upon.

The actions, or inactions/failure to stop what was going on, by the other officers is more complex. One thing is for absolute certain, everyone of them, if they had their lives to live over again, would want to behave differently we can assume. I suppose you could say, elsewhere in this world, where democracy isn't well entrenched, or doesn't exist, a great many suspects must die without anyone getting to hear about it.
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You forgot to mention that George Floyd was handcuffed while he was murdered. That makes his size, strength & athletic ability meaningless.
 
grahamg said:
George Floyd was a very strong looking man, and had been an athlete, so you wouldn't have to be Perry Mason to bring this aspect out in court, as some kind of mitigation, but as you say, so much else does not make sense so far as the action of the policeman kneeling on him for so long as shown, and repeatedly commented upon.

The actions, or inactions/failure to stop what was going on, by the other officers is more complex. One thing is for absolute certain, everyone of them, if they had their lives to live over again, would want to behave differently we can assume. I suppose you could say, elsewhere in this world, where democracy isn't well entrenched, or doesn't exist, a great many suspects must die without anyone getting to hear about it.
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Just because Mr. Floyd was strong, etc. has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the fact that those officers killed him while he was restrained in handcuffs and face down on the ground. Perry Mason wouldn't have any problem realizing that what this man looked like was NO mitigating factor. It isn't OK for cops to murder scary looking guys, any more than it is OK for them to murder little ol' ladies. What Chauvin did to him, kneeling on him for 8+minutes, killing him, was unconscionable. And BTW, look at that video where Chauvin is kneeling on him and looking at the camera -- if that look on his Chauvin's face was fear, I'm the Pope.
 

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