God has a plan. An observation and a question.

Sunny said:
Although that dictionary definition of agnosticism seems to make sense at first, it becomes pretty meaningless upon further thought. It can be applied to any fictitious belief. Such as:

The belief that there is a Santa Claus cannot be known with certainty.
The belief that Covid is largely a manufactured fear promulgated by the pharmaceutical companies, and also the belief that the vaccine doesn't make any difference; the truth about this cannot be known with any certainty.
The belief that the earth is not more than 5,000 years old cannot be known with any certainty.
The belief that all those miracles happening exactly as described in the Bible cannot be proved or disproved with any certainty. All we have to go by is common sense, science, and probability.

And so on. Point #3, that the "essential nature of things" is unknowable, or at least unknown, is so vague that it's a meaningless statement. What is an essential nature?
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Sorry to disappoint, but my agnosticism is applied to one belief and one belief only -- the existence of God. I do that out of courtesy and respect for those who do believe. Unfortunately you are beginning to annoy me. Please reserve your comments for someone else, now and in the future.
 

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JaniceM said:
Oh, I forgot that 'everything happens for the best' approach.
And another: His/her 'faith wasn't strong enough.'
Gotta say all of those remarks bug me.

Re: your comment about bad things- I believe God does not control nature, nor free will, and bad things can happen because of natural causes and/or other people's misuse of free will.

Also, I don't believe God has a specific plan for each individual person's life.

I don't know what to make of angels, but I've been reading a lot and trying to learn.
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I've heard that also. That God doesn't have a plan for each individual's life but I'm not sure I believe that. He sure had a plan for Moses. :unsure: As for God controlling nature, I think he does control the weather. I have experienced dramatic weather changes when I absolutely needed it to happen and prayed for it to. Also during WWII during the battle of the bulge, General Patton ordered his troops to "pray a snowstorm away" and it they did and it worked. Coincidence? Or God does have a say about the weather?
 

chic said:
I've heard that also. That God doesn't have a plan for each individual's life but I'm not sure I believe that. He sure had a plan for Moses. :unsure: As for God controlling nature, I think he does control the weather. I have experienced dramatic weather changes when I absolutely needed it to happen and prayed for it to. Also during WWII during the battle of the bulge, General Patton ordered his troops to "pray a snowstorm away" and it they did and it worked. Coincidence? Or God does have a say about the weather?
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Let me explain my viewpoint, although I don't know how common it is..
The way I believe God looks at a person and a person's life would be like a movie you've watched before- you know what's going to happen, but you don't control it. I believe God 'knows' everything that will occur during a person's lifespan, but is not orchestrating it.

(As for anyone who's tempted to say 'THE BIBLE SAYS..!' when it comes to 'The plans I have for you,' the Bible was written over a long period of time, in various languages, by numerous people, so what anyone might read 'in the Bible' is not necessarily what was originally said. And there are even numerous 'versions' available these days.)

I believe nature is a force in itself, and God doesn't control it. Look at it this way- if the incidents you described were done by God, would that mean you also believe all 'natural disasters' where innocent people were killed was his doing also?
(not trying to argue, just asking what you think)
 
JaniceM said:
Let me explain my viewpoint, although I don't know how common it is..
The way I believe God looks at a person and a person's life would be like a movie you've watched before- you know what's going to happen, but you don't control it. I believe God 'knows' everything that will occur during a person's lifespan, but is not orchestrating it.

(As for anyone who's tempted to say 'THE BIBLE SAYS..!' when it comes to 'The plans I have for you,' the Bible was written over a long period of time, in various languages, by numerous people, so what anyone might read 'in the Bible' is not necessarily what was originally said. And there are even numerous 'versions' available these days.)

I believe nature is a force in itself, and God doesn't control it. Look at it this way- if the incidents you described were done by God, would that mean you also believe all 'natural disasters' where innocent people were killed was his doing also?
(not trying to argue, just asking what you think)
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I have difficulty with the Bible also for the reasons you mention and you raise a good point about natural disasters. Sometimes I wonder if the battle between good and evil is ongoing and we humans just litter the playing field?
 
I just watched Schindler's List last night and it made me think about this thread. 6 million Jews brutalized, tortured and killed...God's plan?

God was nowhere near those death camps. If that was his plan for those people, I hope there's a bigger picture that I'm not seeing. Maybe it comes down to free will after all.

Here's a quote from the movie The Devil's Advocate: John Milton (the devil): "Who in their right mind, Kevin, could possibly deny that the twentieth century was mine, all of it Kevin, all of it mine?"
 
Don't expect an answer but it's this kind of bible info that I question.

What part of a plan & love is this?

1 John 3:1

3 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that WE SHOULD BE CALLED CHILDREN OF GOD; AND SO WE ARE. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

More than 8 million babies worldwide are born with a serious birth defect each year.

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/st...about 3%–,infants and young children globally.
 
Knight said:
Don't expect an answer but it's this kind of bible info that I question.

What part of a plan & love is this?

1 John 3:1

3 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that WE SHOULD BE CALLED CHILDREN OF GOD; AND SO WE ARE. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

More than 8 million babies worldwide are born with a serious birth defect each year.

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/stories/2022/world-birth-defects-day-2022.html#:~:text=Every year, about 3%–,infants and young children globally.
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Don't ultrasounds detect birth defects so the mother can chose whether or not she wants to give birth or abort? There are very few Down's Syndrome children seen anymore.
 
chic said:
Don't ultrasounds detect birth defects so the mother can chose whether or not she wants to give birth or abort? There are very few Down's Syndrome children seen anymore.
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Amniocentesis, not ultrasound, detects chromosomal abnormalities like Down's. The problem is that it's usually done after the 15th week (although it can be done, with risks, in the 10th week), results are about 3 days, possibly too late in Draconian states to abort.
 
chic said:
Yes, I understand and agree with some of this. I do believe in God and His angels. I have had angel encounters and experienced immediate answer to prayer on occasion which I don't believe is arbitrary, but I wish I knew more and why so many devastatingly bad things happen to people. I have trouble with "everything happens for the best", ( it doesn't) and God's plan for me remains a mystery. :unsure:
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I kind of do believe everything happens for a reason. IMO ..At times we are challenged to help overcome something we need to move past. I think the plan for us is to learn to love everyone, ourselves included and let go of all judgment, and forgive others and ourselves. We all make mistakes. Handled 'properly' we could learn and grow in wisdom from them...
 
chic said:
I don't think so. The thread has strayed away from THE PLAN to sort of a general discussion on the topic.
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I don't think questioning any choice people make strays from the topic. A plan includes anticipating a variety of unforeseen circumstances.

The topic began
God has a plan.
Not does God have a plan?

Questioning what the plan is & how a sentient being billions of years old continues to plan deserves questioning. IMO the topic leaves open a good opportunity to ask questions that could be uncomfortable for some to think about.
 

Yes, he has a plan
Not like you and I plan

Luke 17:26-30


King James Version
​

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Part of it is cleaning the slate from time to time

Interesting documentary;


 
hollydolly said:
more to the point, I want to know how did they get the Polar bears from the Arctic, penguins from Antarctica and the koalas & Kangaroos from Australia to come to the Middle East? And after the flood was over a year later , how did those animals get back there?
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hollydolly said:
more to the point, I want to know how did they get the Polar bears from the Arctic, penguins from Antarctica and the koalas & Kangaroos from Australia to come to the Middle East? And after the flood was over a year later , how did those animals get back there?
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And more importantly, why did they bring mosquitos???
 
Judycat said:
Zephaniah 1:2-3
"I will utterly sweep away everything from the face of the earth," says the Lord.
"I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea..."

What are you supposed to do with that, God has a plan?
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I think Zephaniah got a little carried away with the fish of the sea. Kind of hard to put whales in a fish tank big enough to hold two of it's kind, let alone the massive amount of fish of a kind that populate the waters that cover the earth.

Then there are the animals like the ones on Madagascar that are found no where else on earth. How did they manage to be on the Ark then somehow isolate themselves?

I think most will agree the platypus duck was just for fun with left over parts & pieces.
 
My guess is that Noah and the Ark is just a myth. This is supported by the preposterous events of the story and the unimaginable logistics carried out by one man, logistics that could not be done with modern technology. Well maybe it could be done today, but who in their right mind would do such a thing? Wipe out mankind because he is evil, so that Noah can repopulate the Earth with his own kin, who are just as evil as those who came before. God has too much idle time on his hands.
 

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