Government Break Down: What Would You Do?

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We are too lazy, too complacent, and too confused to rise up. Also, the insidiousness of the wealthy has more or less deluded us into thinking we're in charge already. Who's going to have the charisma to rouse us from our ignorant lethargy? You can park rabble-rousers and demagogues on soapboxes on every major street corner in the country, but no one will heed them. The people all have mortgages, kids who need braces or piano lessons or soccer equipment. They're lumbered with debt and looking at even more debt if their kids get into college. The refrigerator needs to be replaced, the car’s air conditioning stopped working, and the neighbor’s fence is falling over into their yard. There are far, far too many pesky things with which most folks need to deal to allow them to put their lives on hold to set the government right. Remember, we all think we really are running things. To awake from that delusion isn’t enough. We simply wouldn’t believe the truth because then we’d have to admit to having been snookered all our lives and we’d rather keep our smug pride than be exposed as long-term, willing dupes.

Don’t twist my words or my meaning. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I do know what’s not going to happen. There’s a difference. Yes, if change is to come, it will have to be triggered by an outside force so that people don’t have a choice. My examples of outside triggers are valid and, while they’re remote, they’re not utterly impossible. As for my proceeding from a false assumption, I’m at a loss to know the assumption to which you’re referring.
 
FíorFinné said:
We are too lazy, too complacent, and too confused to rise up.
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Is that the Royal We, or just the general populace We? Again, you seem to employ a very broad brush.

Also, the insidiousness of the wealthy has more or less deluded us into thinking we're in charge already. Who's going to have the charisma to rouse us from our ignorant lethargy? You can park rabble-rousers and demagogues on soapboxes on every major street corner in the country, but no one will heed them. The people all have mortgages, kids who need braces or piano lessons or soccer equipment. They're lumbered with debt and looking at even more debt if their kids get into college. The refrigerator needs to be replaced, the car’s air conditioning stopped working, and the neighbor’s fence is falling over into their yard. There are far, far too many pesky things with which most folks need to deal to allow them to put their lives on hold to set the government right.
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And yet ... there are people such as myself who are not so materialistically-oriented. We don't HAVE a car, OR a house; our kids are grown and gone; we have no debt because we never bought into the whole "debt is good" lie in the first place. What about us?

Remember, we all think we really are running things. To awake from that delusion isn’t enough. We simply wouldn’t believe the truth because then we’d have to admit to having been snookered all our lives and we’d rather keep our smug pride than be exposed as long-term, willing dupes.
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I've never labored under the illusion that I am running things; in fact I despise the very thought of being in charge. I think what you're referring to are the masses of good little citizens who bought into the System and never left it. The ones with egos as big as their debt.

I freely admit that at various times in the past I was snookered. I will NOT so freely acknowledge that I am as gullible now - with experience comes wisdom. My cynicism, pessimism and downright distrust of human creatures helps keep me from harm in that regard.

Don’t twist my words or my meaning. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I do know what’s not going to happen. There’s a difference. Yes, if change is to come, it will have to be triggered by an outside force so that people don’t have a choice. My examples of outside triggers are valid and, while they’re remote, they’re not utterly impossible. As for my proceeding from a false assumption, I’m at a loss to know the assumption to which you’re referring.
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Knowing what is NOT going to happen is just as impressive a feat as knowing what will.

You speak of people not having a choice - what about when the laws become so restrictive, the food so poisoned, the crime wave so tidal, the cost of merely surviving so unattainably expensive that the only two choices left are to fight or die? Does that still qualify as a choice?
 
Phil,

I think this topic can be interesting, but I’m put off by your wandering off the topic and making what you seem to think are arch comments, e.g., “royal we,” “broad brush,” etc. Can we just stick to the topic without resorting to comments best left on the middle-school playground, please?

That said, I don’t believe that you are a candidate for the yet-to-be-formed neo-Weather Underground Organization. Since, as you say, you never “. . . bought into the whole ‘debt is good’ lie . . . ,” you don’t really have a dog in this fight, do you? If you did rise up against our putative masters, your opposition would be strictly philosophical rather than based on any economic interest, wouldn’t it? While I might be wrong, your disdain for the “. . . masses of good little citizens . . .” seems to confirm that and, on that point, I agree wholeheartedly with you, although I prefer to term them the “willfully ignorant,” aka “stupid,” people.

As for your pooh-poohing my knack for prescience, you’re still wrong. I know many things that aren’t going to happen. For example, I will never be an astronaut and you will never win a seat as a U.S. Senator from Maine. I also know that Americans are so damned complacent that they will never, ever rebel or revolt of their own volition. If there’s a revolution, it will be sparked by an outside event that will give them no choice but to take matters into their own hands.
 
FíorFinné said:
Phil,

I think this topic can be interesting, but I’m put off by your wandering off the topic and making what you seem to think are arch comments, e.g., “royal we,” “broad brush,” etc. Can we just stick to the topic without resorting to comments best left on the middle-school playground, please?
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Sorry, I flunked out after 7th grade.

You might want to brush up on what constitutes a modern forum discussion.
 
A forum discussion is a discussion that takes place on an internet forum. A topic is on the table, various participants comment on that topic, promoting their own opinions and questioning the opinions of others, either with an eye for learning something or for finding a flaw in opposing arguments. I apologize for having taxed your abilities. It wasn't my intent. Best wishes.
 
FíorFinné said:
A forum discussion is a discussion that takes place on an internet forum. A topic is on the table, various participants comment on that topic, promoting their own opinions and questioning the opinions of others, either with an eye for learning something or for finding a flaw in opposing arguments.
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Which is usually done politely, imo.....
 
Anne, your opinion is quite correct, but you must bear in mind that serious discussions are robust. Brusque comments are part and parcel of intellectual exchange. The politeness of a dinner party is entirely different from the give-and-take of a debate. Ideas and opinions are on the table, not Royal Doulton China. Also, there is a tremendous difference between what might be deemed impolite and downright rudeness. Nevertheless, it wouldn't hurt to be more solicitous lest the oversensitive among us take offense.
 
FíorFinné said:

If there’s a revolution, it will be sparked by an outside event that will give them no choice but to take matters into their own hands.
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Isn't that what usually triggers a revolution?:confused:

Also, I have to say for a new member you really made quite an introduction by picking the hottest, most debatable forum topic, and going on the attack...I think it's called trolling.
 
(snip)
FíorFinné said:
Nevertheless, it wouldn't hurt to be more solicitous lest the oversensitive among us take offense.
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Oversensitive? Really?? It might be worth it to consider entering into a friendly discussion on a new forum, before jumping into a debate that could obviously get a bit tense, I should think.
 
Anne said:
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Oversensitive? Really?? It might be worth it to consider entering into a friendly discussion on a new forum, before jumping into a debate that could obviously get a bit tense, I should think.
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Anne, if a discussion about whether or not the government will break down is deemed to be a hot topic, then a lot of people have no concept of what's going on in the world. Our discussion of this topic will have no effect whatsoever on the real world; our comments are mere conjecture. How could the possible collapse of the government be a hot topic? It has no more bearing on reality than conjecture about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, whether or not you admit not only the existence of angels, but also of dancing angels who can be cajoled into dancing on a pinhead. If people get exercised about whether or not the government will collapse, I have to question their grasp of reality.

No, my comments are not "trolling." They're based on the merit of the argument as I see it and, frankly, I think it has no merit whatsoever; that, however, doesn't preclude my weighing in with my 2¢.

Your comment implies that, regardless of my opinion of the basic merit of the discussion, I should treat it as a valid and reasonable subject and that's not in the cards. If a foolish proposition is on the table, its foolishness has to be pointed out; the alternative is the basis of the Hans Christian Andersen short tale, The Emperor's New Clothes.
 
FiorFinne, as Phil said, you have posted several well-written thoughts into the forum topic.

Your views may even have merit, although you claim the topic is not worth discussing, so it doesn't really matter if you are right or not.
What DOES matter, is that this forum is a group of friendly older folks who ENJOY their discussions, regardless of the topic, and furthermore, we all enjoy each other....... We are FRIENDS, even though only Internet friends. We do our best to express ourselves to one another, and do it in a kind and caring way, not to just pick apart what the other person think, feels, or believes.
We respect each other as a unique human being, not as a lower life form, as you seem to address everyone. Your statement, as follows, pretty well sums up your opinion of everyone here :

While I might be wrong, your disdain for the “. . . masses of good little citizens . . .” seems to confirm that and, on that point, I agree wholeheartedly with you, although I prefer to term them the “willfully ignorant,” aka “stupid,” people.

That you even include Phil as believing the same thing as you is SO wrong, as to be totally ludicrous, which you would have realized, had you bothered to read through some of our other discussions in this forum, and you would have found that Phil is a kind and caring person, who has tried to uplift his fellow man, not degrade them, as you do.

If you are ever going to be a real part of this group, then be someone who values the people here. If you just want to be in a debate, there are a lot of other forums dedicated to that. The choice is up to you.
 
Thanks, HFL! I enjoy the people and the vibe here which why I keep coming back. I can always go elsewhere for snippy comments and abuse. We've certainly had our differences here which is to be expected. But, we've always handled them in a warm and friendly way and I cherish that.
 
Totally agree with you both HFL and TG!! I've been on other forums (not senior ones) where you hold your breath when you post because someone will stomp on you with both feet. Not everyone knows everything and I like the way this forum is friendly with lots of helpful suggestions and provides information on what matters to the majority of the members. The combination of serious discussion and the humor is just right and I look forward everyday to see who has posted what. Debate is great, but keep it respectful and don't bash someone personally if they don't hold the same view as you.

Rant finished......
 
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