Greece Plans to Fine everyone over 60 for every month they're not vaccinated

hollydolly

hollydolly

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London England
how long before the same thing comes to all of us ...?

I'm vaccinated but I don't agree with this at all....


Residents in Greece over 60 years old will have to undergo mandatory vaccinations against coronavirus or face monthly 100 euro (£84) fines beginning next year, the country’s prime minister announced.

The Greek government decided upon the country’s first general inoculation mandate in response to a surge in new daily infections and the emergence of the Omicron variant.

The measure will take effect on January 16 and the fines will be added to tax bills, prime minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said in a televised statement.

Greece’s overall Covid-19 death toll exceeded 18,000 this week with confirmed new infections at high levels. Roughly a quarter of the country’s adult population remains unvaccinated.

Vaccination mandates were introduced over the summer for health care workers and fire service rescuers in Greece, with those failing to comply being suspended from their jobs indefinitely without pay.

The government has ruled out imposing new lockdowns, but says it is targeting the elderly with tougher restrictions to protect the public health service as ICU occupancy is near capacity nationwide.

“The new Omicron variant is a concern for us and means we must be vigilant,” Mr Mitsotakis said.

“Unfortunately, of the 580,000 unvaccinated of our fellow citizens over the age of 60, only 60,000 set up appointments to get vaccinated in November,” he said.

“But it is mainly people over 60 who require hospital treatment and sadly lose their life. These deaths are unnecessary.”

The opposition left-wing Syriza party accused the centre-right government of shifting the responsibility of battling the virus onto ordinary Greeks and “targeting people over 60 … with punitive and financially debilitating measures that haven’t been implemented anywhere else in the world”.

Development minister Adonis Georgiadis conceded that it had been a “politically difficult decision”, but defended the measure as the only way forward.


https://www.gbnews.uk/news/covid-over-60s-in-greece-told-to-get-jabbed-or-face-monthly-fines/168641
 

Greece: Mixed reactions to vaccine mandate for people over 60​

The Greek government has announced a monthly fine for citizens aged over 60 who refuse to get a vaccine. Observers question whether the measure will achieve a higher vaccination rate.

At the moment, some 100 people are dying each day of COVID-19 in Greece. Most of them are older. Many of them were not vaccinated. Despite this, few people had expected compulsory vaccination to be introduced for people over 60. But now, it has been.

In a cabinet meeting on Tuesday, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said there were some 580,000 Greek citizens aged over 60 who were not yet vaccinated. He also pointed out that most of the COVID-19 patients in intensive care were in the same age group, as well as most of the people who had died of the illness.

He announced, therefore, that by mid-January, all Greek citizens in this age group who had not been vaccinated should either have received a first shot or at least be able to prove that they had an appointment for one. Those without a shot or the prospect of one would be fined €100 ($113) per month. The fine would be collected automatically and used to fund the public health system.

Mitsotakis said that it had been a tough but justified decision: "I felt a duty to stand by the most vulnerable, even if it might temporarily displease them."

The prime minister hopes that the introduction of punitive fines will convince more people to get the vaccine. Currently, 62% of the total population and 73% of people over 18 have received both shots, according to the vaccine tracker of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.

Negative reactions on social media​

It will soon become apparent whether the threat works and results in an increase in vaccine appointments. Regardless of that, initial reactions on social media were negative.

Some users said that older people were being punished, whereas there was no compulsory vaccination for professions with greater social contact such as police, the army or priests. So far in Greece, a vaccine mandate applies only to health care workers, with those who refuse to get vaccinated not getting paid.

On Facebook, Xenophon Contiades, President of the Center for European Constitutional Law in Athens, said that he believed that with vaccines available, restrictions and sanctions to convince people to get the shot are justified.

"However, in my opinion the imposition of fines on people who do not want to get the vaccine is unconstitutional, because it is an excessive and inappropriate restriction of an individual's autonomy — regardless of how angry we are because of their attitude."

He added that it was not only a matter of discrimination on the basis of age, but also social discrimination, because for some people €100 per month is a significant sum.

Elias Mossialos, Professor of Health Policy at the renowned London School of Economics, said on Greek television that he would have liked to see a combination of restrictive measures and positive incentives: "Now we have arrived at a dead end."

'The message is that it is people's own fault'​

Meanwhile, hospitals are being inundated and doctors are stretched to their limit.

Retired Athens resident Ioanna Nezi has received three doses of the vaccine. But she believes that the new measure is problematic: "There was not even a hint of a debate in parliament. There was no admission that politicians have not done enough to address the skepticism many have regarding the vaccine."

"The message is that it is people's own fault, and that the government has done everything perfectly."

There has indeed been very little serious debate in parliament about the pandemic. The prime minister has tended to make announcements on television.

Some see the November 30 vaccine mandate for people over 60 as an admission that the national inoculation program has failed. For too long, the government looked on in silence as those against vaccination presented their theories on television.

For too long, it did not dare to pressure the powerful Orthodox Church into greater cooperation. For too long, it presented its mediocre management of the pandemic as a success story instead of launching a more effective vaccination campaign and strengthening the health system, the arguments go.

Now that doctors are protesting and the omicron variant is poised to spread, the government seems to prefer blaming the unvaccinated.

Government accused of inconsistency​

The government opposition is angry about supposed inconsistencies in the administration's policies. Alexis Tsipras, former prime minister and leader of the left-wing Syriza party, criticized the "lack of planning and strategy" and described the conservative premier as a "vaccination saboteur."

He said that compulsory vaccination for people over 60 would lead to a "wave of resistance instead of the desired result, which is a better vaccination rate." His proposal was to use financial incentives to encourage people to get a first shot.

For its part, the social democrat KINAL party supports compulsory vaccination, but accused the government of acting too late, claiming that the new measure was a sign of panic. The right-wing populist Greek Solution (EL) party called compulsory vaccination "inhumane."

Perhaps the most bitter comment as to the state of public debate in Greece was made on Twitter by well-known young journalist Natasha Iamali: "The fact that we are more concerned with a €100 fine than with the 100 daily deaths is an admission of lack of empathy."

https://www.dw.com/en/greece-mixed-reactions-to-vaccine-mandate-for-people-over-60/a-59999278
 
..but how long before it's adopted everywhere ? :(..and what else will it lead to ?
Complete control over everything we earn and everything we spend.?..perhaps ?
May sound far fetched but everyone's personal details will be on their smartphone,and easy for the 'leaders' to have control over that ?
Tell people that we are responsible for everyone else's health ?

Get rid of small businesses.? Grab land and buildings from those who can no longer maintain them.?

Rent them out to those who have been priced out of the home ownership market.? Pay people to stay at home.? Censor anything on the internet that goes against the official narrative. ?

Perhaps not as far fetched as it sounds ? :unsure:
 
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I think "government intervention" is going to increase, with regard to this virus. Joe Biden is scheduled to deliver a statement Tuesday, with a "Stark Warning". I won't be surprised if this is the beginning of more restrictions, lockdowns, etc. I usually don't pay much attention to these political speeches, but I may just try to watch this one.

https://news.yahoo.com/joe-biden-set-address-nation-101623000.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
 
I don’t buy it. I’m over 80 & I’ve never seen a time when people were so free to be totally irrational in defiance of common sense, science and consideration for fellow humans. Governments in the USA at least have been totally unable to do anything about it. Not even curbing unlawful defiance. Practically speaking I think there is less govt control over peoples lives than ever. We wouldn’t have the present food safety that we do if it weren’t for govt regulations. I consider the anti vaxxers threat to my freedom, health & well being.
And if their views end up with them being critically ill they expect to be cared for in the same way as people who have take every precaution.
 
hollydolly said:
Residents in Greece over 60 years old will have to undergo mandatory vaccinations against coronavirus or face monthly 100 euro (£84) fines beginning next year, the country’s prime minister announced.
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I think the data shows that the infection rate goes up in young people first and then a few weeks later in old people, so it seems like the young people should also have to pay a fine if not vaccinated.
There was a doctor on YouTube that mentioned they tried GIVING patients a hundred dollars to get vaccinated and that it was successful in motivating a number of people to get vaccinated.
Maybe Greece has paid healthcare, in which case the fine could be seen as a pay-ahead plan to help cover the healthcare costs, kind of like in the USA where older people get stuck paying higher amounts for some types of insurance.
 
HoneyNut said:
I think the data shows that the infection rate goes up in young people first and then a few weeks later in old people, so it seems like the young people should also have to pay a fine if not vaccinated.
There was a doctor on YouTube that mentioned they tried GIVING patients a hundred dollars to get vaccinated and that it was successful in motivating a number of people to get vaccinated.
Maybe Greece has paid healthcare, in which case the fine could be seen as a pay-ahead plan to help cover the healthcare costs, kind of like in the USA where older people get stuck paying higher amounts for some types of insurance.
Click to expand...
The Greek healthcare is almost completely free, very similar to the UK
 
hollydolly said:
but how long before it's adopted everywhere ? :(..and what else will it lead to ?
Complete control over everything we earn and everything we spend.?..
Click to expand...
There is a guru on YouTube called Sadhguru and he has some nice videos on how our minds are very good at imagining future scenarios and how that has been a benefit for people, but that in modern life it is an important skill to learn not to freak ourselves out over all the scenarios our minds can imagine.
I mean it is a fine, we have lots of fines in our laws, a fine for parking in the wrong place, a fine for not having your dog vaccinated against rabies, etc. I've had coworkers required to wear their briefcase handcuffed to their wrist or lose their job (and had to deal with a very angry one because he arrived late in the evening and no one was available to un-handcuff him), but none of those has caused a cascade of "complete control over everything we earn and everything we spend".
So, please try to not imagine unlikely worse case futures that you not only scare yourself with but then you spread the irrational fear to others.
The current scenario of countries health systems being pushed to a financial brink contributed to by people who refuse to take measures to protect themselves while still expecting the system to pay to treat them, this is the issue that government is trying to address.
What would you recommend Greece do instead?
 
HoneyNut said:
There is a guru on YouTube called Sadhguru and he has some nice videos on how our minds are very good at imagining future scenarios and how that has been a benefit for people, but that in modern life it is an important skill to learn not to freak ourselves out over all the scenarios our minds can imagine.
I mean it is a fine, we have lots of fines in our laws, a fine for parking in the wrong place, a fine for not having your dog vaccinated against rabies, etc. I've had coworkers required to wear their briefcase handcuffed to their wrist or lose their job (and had to deal with a very angry one because he arrived late in the evening and no one was available to un-handcuff him), but none of those has caused a cascade of "complete control over everything we earn and everything we spend".
So, please try to not imagine unlikely worse case futures that you not only scare yourself with but then you spread the irrational fear to others.
The current scenario of countries health systems being pushed to a financial brink contributed to by people who refuse to take measures to protect themselves while still expecting the system to pay to treat them, this is the issue that government is trying to address.
What would you recommend Greece do instead?
Click to expand...
I'm not scared for myself , please don't think I am. I'm worried for the world....I'm putting forward a scenario, which I believe could easily happen..given the projected scenarios in the past which have come true during this pandemic... If you personally think that 'freedom' is being fined for not having a briefcase chained to your wrist...then you will accept everything and anything that your govt demands of you.. many more won't!!
 
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hollydolly said:
..but how long before it's adopted everywhere ? :(..and what else will it lead to ?
Complete control over everything we earn and everything we spend.?..perhaps ?
May sound far fetched but everyone's personal details will be on their smartphone,and easy for the 'leaders' to have control over that ?
Tell people that we are responsible for everyone else's health ?

Get rid of small businesses.? Grab land and buildings from those who can no longer maintain them.?

Rent them out to those who have been priced out of the home ownership market.? Pay people to stay at home.? Censor anything on the internet that goes against the official narrative. ?

Peerhaps not as far fetched as it sounds ? :unsure:
Click to expand...
That's the plan @hollydolly as I've heard it too. I used to believe it was a conspiracy theory but the way governments are instilling fear and hatred in people in addition to mandating vaccinations that do not work, leads me to the same conclusion you've discussed. It's all about setting up a digital ID for people forever and you will obey the government for the rest of your life or be cut off from everything. Unpleasant proposition.

What's happening in Greece sounds like elder abuse at worst or discrimination at best. :mad:
 
What's happening in Greece sounds like elder abuse at worst or discrimination at best.

Not it sounds like, it is. Get the vaccine we know better then you what's good for you and if you don't we will fine you. You will have less money to live on but we don't care if you starve to death or freeze to death if you cant afford to keep warm. Being vaccinated is what is important to us, your government.
 
NYC trying the opposite:

"New York City is digging back into its pockets as it scrambles to curb the record-setting omicron tide, offering $100 cash to anyone who gets a COVID-19 booster at a city-run vaccine site between now and New Year's Eve, the mayor said Tuesday.

Calling the program "by far the biggest booster incentive program in the United States of America," Bill de Blasio acknowledged the limited-time opportunity but said it was coming at exactly the right time for the pandemic-weary city."

"Everyone who has not been vaccinated, it's time. Everyone who has not gotten that booster, it's time. This city is ready to make sure everyone gets that booster and that's the way we move through these challenging few weeks," de Blasio said Tuesday. "No more shutdowns. We've been through them, they were devasting, we can't go through it again. We need to all work together these next few weeks."

‘No More Shutdowns:' NYC Offers $100 to Get Boosters at City-Run Sites Before New Year's (msn.com)

Let's hope.
 
I imagine Greece has socialistic health care and I imagine each unvaccinated person costs the government a small fortune. Money that they don't have, for 2 weeks, intubated in an intensive care ward. Get your shots or write the hospital a check from your checking account. You pay for your decisions, not society, not insurance, not the government. Put your money where your mouth is. And oh, by the way, your failed reasoning might just cost one more thing... your life! Sounds corny but it is so true.
 
Skyking said:
I imagine Greece has socialistic health care and I imagine each unvaccinated person costs the government a small fortune. Money that they don't have, for 2 weeks, intubated in an intensive care ward. Get your shots or write the hospital a check from your checking account. You pay for your decisions, not society, not insurance, not the government. Put your money where your mouth is. And oh, by the way, your failed reasoning might just cost one more thing... your life! Sounds corny but it is so true.
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So only those over 60 years old should be fined?

What about all the under 60 year Olds?

They don't cost any money?

What about the breakthrough cases that need treatment, they don't cost any money?

Singling out one specific group of people is discrimination and doing to those with the least income is criminal IMO.

It's elderly abuse.
 
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RadishRose said:
NYC trying the opposite:

"New York City is digging back into its pockets as it scrambles to curb the record-setting omicron tide, offering $100 cash to anyone who gets a COVID-19 booster at a city-run vaccine site between now and New Year's Eve, the mayor said Tuesday.

Calling the program "by far the biggest booster incentive program in the United States of America," Bill de Blasio acknowledged the limited-time opportunity but said it was coming at exactly the right time for the pandemic-weary city."

"Everyone who has not been vaccinated, it's time. Everyone who has not gotten that booster, it's time. This city is ready to make sure everyone gets that booster and that's the way we move through these challenging few weeks," de Blasio said Tuesday. "No more shutdowns. We've been through them, they were devasting, we can't go through it again. We need to all work together these next few weeks."

‘No More Shutdowns:' NYC Offers $100 to Get Boosters at City-Run Sites Before New Year's (msn.com)

Let's hope.
Click to expand...
Hot Dog!! I'm flyin' to New York.
But I want a free taco, too.
 
The Greeks have forever protested over everything. From a work/life standpoint, they have had it so much better than those of us in the US.

There were violent protests over economic austerity when the country was virtually bankrupt. When I visited there in September, there were protests over police authority. If their citizens over 60 do not wish to be vaccinated, why issue mandates? Let them take their chances.
 
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Becky1951 said:
So only those over 60 years old should be fined?

What about all the under 60 year Olds?

They don't cost any money?

What about the breakthrough cases that need treatment, they don't cost any money?

Singling out one specific group of people is discrimination and doing to those with the least income is criminal IMO.

It's elderly abuse.
Click to expand...
It's segregation, discrimination and medical apartheid. This should never be allowed to happen in a social democracy.
 

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