Gunmen open fire at Bondi Beach in Sydney.

WhatInThe said:
Saw some reports the killers had 10-20 minutes before they were challenged/shot by police

Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
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I've read this, too. Multiple reports indicate the police did nothing for a full 10 minutes and didn't start returning fire until that one brave bystander wrestled the firearm away from one of the shooters.
 

dusty said:
Again, anti-Jewish persecution has never been caused by something the Jews did, said, or thought. It was and is caused by the hatred, delusions, and irrational prejudices harbored by those who carried out said persecution. After centuries of standing out due to religious and alleged racial difference, without defenders and prevented from defending themselves, Jews stood out as almost an ideal “other.” Whether the immediate cause at various points has been religious difference, conspiracy theory, ancestral memory of hatred, or simply obvious difference, Jews were and continue to be targeted by those who adhere to ideologies of hatred.
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Thank you for this, @dusty. I have never understood antisemitism.
 
WhatInThe said:
Saw some reports the killers had 10-20 minutes before they were challenged/shot by police

Bondi Beach terror survivor describes how cops ‘froze’ during 20-minute shooting rampage: ‘I don’t understand why’
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I heard it was closer to 30 minutes; in a situation like this, every second counts. It was complete chaos; if it weren't for the courageous Sydney fruit shop owner, Ahmed al Ahmed, disarming one of them, it would have been much worse.
God Bless that man.
 
Sunny said:
It seems to never end. The news programs on TV have to use a split screen to show yesterday's two mass shootings at the same time!

I'm hoping that at least one or two of the gunmen who were shot will survive - not because they deserve to, but interviewing and studying them might give us some valuable tips on how to prevent more of these mass murders. Of course, the prevalence of guns is a large part of it, but there has to be some motive also. What would inspire anyone to start killing innocent people who came to enjoy a sporting event or a religious holiday at a beach?

Or maybe there is no answer, other than that they're just plain nuts. Although the recent upsurge in antisemitism makes me feel that it could be more than just mental illness. Maybe mental illness plus something political, or maybe some cruelty done to them which put them around the bend? The motivation behind all these murders always seems to be a big mystery.
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Bad as it was, it could have been worse. The shooters did not have access to automatic weapons. They had to duck down behind the sides of the bridge to reload. Even so, they were able to kill or wound a lot of people in less than half an hour.
 
The death toll from the massacre rose to 16 by Monday morning local time, and includes a 10-year-old child. The oldest fatal victim is understood to be 87.


When you think of father & son..at least in MY mind I think of someone older.. but i've just realised the father age 50 was the same age as my daughter...so to me he's still almost a child altho' obviously a grown man... ..but theoretically he could have been at school with my DD... which makes you think he was a kid just a very short time ago.. and he's managed to gather all that hate and indoctrinate his son.. into both of them becoming murderers of innocent people..in just half a lifetime

It just takes some getting your head around !:unsure:
 
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Sorry, I don't agree that a handgun in the hands of a trained cop can't take out someone like an active shooter or take their concentration away from their intended victims when they become the prey. I know & have known some damn good shooters on my department that could have taken either one of these out.

Here, you have a choice of having in your cruiser during your shift either a shotgun or a patrol rifle, or both if you want, which you qualify with at the range. A long gun is always available to you for any situation it may be needed. Our Training Staff also teach active shooter training to all of the departments we train for. The officers are taught to run towards the gun fire & not wait for back up. There is no need to wait for someone with bigger weapons to show up.

You rise to the level of your training & if your department doesn't train you, or you don't get training on your own when it's not provided, you are going to fail.

You don't plan to fail, but you fail to plan ... meaning you need be trained for active shooters - AND - if you don't run it through your mind as a cop as how you would respond when, NOT IF, you find yourself in an active shooter situation, your already set up for failure.

At this time, we don't know why the officers responded they way they did. Was it lack of training? Was it a mindset that no one other than cops have guns so nothing will ever happen?

Just because firearms are banned in Australia doesn't mean that they aren't being brought in with other contraband along the 21,000 mile coastline where no one is going to see it.
 
VaughanJB said:
Deaths of this kind, murders of this kind, aren't worse if they involve people of the Jewish faith. A life is a life. It's heinous. Terrible. No matter the faith, no matter the political leaning, murder is murder.
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Well, the Jews do have a history of being targeted simply for being Jewish, so that makes it a bit worse.
 
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