Hamas and Netanyahu are a curse on their peoples, but there is a sliver of hope

Paco Dennis

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This just appeared in my news feed. I read it all and think it is up to date with the situation in Gaza. It is balanced and takes a strong approach that all sides have a responsibility to cooperate on finding a solution.

Both sides in the war between Israel and Hamas now face a fresh set of fateful choices. The decisions they take in the next two weeks are not only a matter of life and death for many thousands of Palestinians, and for the remaining 134 hostages held by Hamas. They also have the power to shape events for years, if not decades to come. The start of Ramadan, on 10 March, is the crucial deadline, and the clock is ticking.

I say “both sides”, though that can easily get forgotten. The Israeli bombardment of Gaza has been so relentless, the destruction so intense and the death toll so high, that many stopped seeing it as a war long ago. It was striking how often in Wednesday’s Commons debate on Gaza, before it descended into chaos, the shadow foreign secretary, David Lammy, had to remind colleagues that they could not simply issue a demand that Israel stop, because “a ceasefire, by necessity, means both sides.”

If the reminder was necessary, it’s because Hamas has become an invisible player in this conflict. That’s literally true on the battlefield. “They don’t show themselves. They avoid contact. You see the targets for a few milliseconds,” one Israeli reservist who fought in Gaza told my colleague Jason Burke, describing how Hamas fighters would emerge only fleetingly from their vast network of underground tunnels to open fire.

It’s true, too, of the coverage of the war. Israel says that it has killed some 12,000 Hamas men, which would represent about a third of the organisation’s fighting force: Hamas says it has lost half that number. Either way, those thousands of Hamas dead are all but unseen and rarely discussed. The health ministry in Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas, gives a daily total of those slain, often adding that almost all were women and children. The heartbreaking footage that comes out of Gaza matches that account: it shows civilians rather than fallen fighters. Hamas combatants remain out of sight.

And because we stop seeing them, we stop seeing them as having agency – as if they have been merely passive in the horrific events of the last few months, events that were set in train by Hamas’s attacks on southern Israel and its massacre of 1,200. Passive is not, incidentally, how many in Gaza are coming to view the organisation: there have been reports of anti-Hamas demonstrations breaking out across Gaza in recent days, as protesters make a case distilled most starkly by the analyst Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a native of Gaza City, who has lost a staggering 31 family members to Israeli bombs.

Now based in the US, Alkhatib’s condemnation of Hamas’s demands before they will agree to a ceasefire is worth quoting at length. Hamas, he says, “is insisting on the full reconstruction and redevelopment of Gaza to what it was before October 7. Why launch a destructive war that annihilates your people and destroys your territories only to demand that Gaza be back to what it was before you dragged Gazans along with your suicidal adventures? You could have had what you want simply by not launching a war that you knew would be disastrous.”

Hamas has agency even now. If it were truly horrified by the daily death and suffering of Palestinians in Gaza, as horrified as the millions around the world campaigning for a ceasefire, and if it simply wanted the killing to stop, it could release the hostages it holds, living and dead, agree the exile of Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of 7 October – and the pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu, inside and outside Israel, to end the war would be such that it would be all but over. The killing would stop. Yet precisely no one thinks Hamas will ever do that. Few even think to demand it.

Instead the focus, naturally enough, is on the stronger party, Israel, which also faces a critical decision. There are negotiations under way in Paris, aimed at brokering a release of the hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israel and an accompanying pause in fighting. But there is an even more momentous choice to be made.

Israel could go ahead with its threat to launch a ground operation in Rafah, the southern border town where the bulk of Gaza’s population – some 1.5 million people – have fled for safety. The IDF would get the satisfaction of taking on what it says are the last remaining Hamas brigades, hiding underground.

But the price would be terrifyingly high, incurring either colossal loss of life, an exodus of refugees fleeing into neighbouring Egypt, or both. Which is why so many world leaders have been imploring Netanyahu to hold back. It is the desire to avert a catastrophe in Rafah that has, in part, given fresh impetus to those Paris talks.


Meanwhile, another option beckons. Guided by the principle that every crisis is also an opportunity, as well as the knowledge that moves towards peace in the Middle East have often followed war, the White House is advancing what it is not quite calling the Biden plan. It would see the US agree a defence pact with Saudi Arabia, in return for which the Saudis would establish diplomatic ties with Israel.

Together the three would form a strong alliance against Iran and its proxies: Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Houthis in Yemen. Israel would get what it has sought for decades: formal acceptance across the Arab world and official partners in its core battle against Iran. The price? Israel would have to agree to Palestinian statehood, the pursuit of which is central to the Biden initiative.

Now, of course there are a hundred reasons to assume this new plan will go the way of all the old ones – and end in failure. Once you’ve counted off all those reasons, I could name a hundred more. But the point still stands. Israel could march into Rafah, cause a humanitarian calamity and risk being branded a pariah state even by erstwhile friends. Or it could say a tentative yes to the US president, recognising a truth that is plain to the entire world: that eventually it will have to come to terms with the Palestinians, that there are two peoples who claim the same small land and that the only outcome that can give both what they need is a state for each.

Israel should seize this opportunity with both hands. Except it is led by a man who has devoted much of his life to ensuring a Palestinian state can never happen: Benjamin Netanyahu. And so he stands in the way of a deal that could not only end the war in Gaza, but finally secure Israel’s future.

As Nasser Al-Kidwa, Palestinian politician and nephew of Yasser Arafat, put it this week in an interview with an Israeli newspaper, “The situation is a tragedy. But it also carries with it a promise for the future for both nations. The problem is that your prime minister is currently blocking everything.” That’s why Israelis need to be rid of him, urgently, replacing him with a pragmatic leader who can see what Israel’s national interest so clearly demands.

There is a tiny, reed-thin chance that something better might come out of this horror show of a war. To grasp it, the Palestinians need to be free of Hamas and Israelis free of Netanyahu. Every day those men remain in power is a curse on both peoples – who have surely been cursed long enough.

  • Jonathan Freedland is a Guardian columnist

Hamas and Netanyahu are a curse on their peoples. Yet amid the horror, there is a sliver of hope | Jonathan Freedland
 

This just appeared in my news feed. I read it all and think it is up to date with the situation in Gaza. It is balanced and takes a strong approach that all sides have a responsibility to cooperate on finding a solution.
Perhaps if you really desired to be "balanced" there would also be a bit about the Palestinian song called "Stab the Zionists" with lyrics that go: “With an axe, a knife, a gun, and a rifle I’ll kill you… I’ll cleanse my country of every Jew” - But I guess that wouldn't be possible since there's been a major effort over the last few years to remove all mention of it from the Internet. :mad:
 

I agree. "Stab the Zionists" is a horrible song. Hate can only perpetuate the violence. Now, after eliminating most of the hiding places of Hamas, there is the city that is filled with Palestinians. Is Israel going to raze it to find the hidden Hamas fighters and weapons? There will be no place for the Palestinians to go. It is a humanitarian crisis now. What if the rest of the country is destroyed., and still there is no stop in the killing?
 
Perhaps if you really desired to be "balanced" there would also be a bit about the Palestinian song called "Stab the Zionists" with lyrics that go: “With an axe, a knife, a gun, and a rifle I’ll kill you… I’ll cleanse my country of every Jew” - But I guess that wouldn't be possible since there's been a major effort over the last few years to remove all mention of it from the Internet. :mad:
I had no difficulty finding article 7 of Hamas's statement. I agree it is beyond comprehension, how they can hate a whole race of people. What would I do if I were living near people who wanted me dead. I have had people dislike me that lived nearby. That was bad enough. Then they run the Government. Propagandize the society to hate this whole race of people. After what they did Oct. 7th they need to be eliminated. We have almost got hem cornered. But there are about a million left in this city. The world has come after us already, and is pressing us to stop. But, this is before the mission is complete. If we could do anything, what can we do?
 
So they want all of Israel, and all the Jews killed and out so they can have all the land. Well, they are getting the exact opposite.

CoPilot on this....remember they are nuts too. :)

Copilot
Israel is indeed preparing for a ground invasion of Gaza’s southern city, Rafah, where more than a million Palestinians have sought refuge since the start of the war. Here are the key points:

  1. Background:
  2. Current Situation:
  3. Humanitarian Concerns:
  4. International Response:
While Israel aims to address security concerns, the humanitarian impact on civilians remains a critical issue. Negotiations and diplomatic efforts are ongoing to find a resolution and prevent further escalation
 
Israel is focused on eradicating Hamas terrorists completely and I don't see them changing their minds until that job is done...no matter what negotiations are being discussed by the rest of the world leaders. Hitler did it, then Hamas...and now Israel is done with standing idly by as they watch hatred and war crimes against their people to continue.

And Iran has supported Hamas's horrific efforts, driven by hatred, to start and continue this horrific war against the Jews. So why would the White House think Saudi Arabia, would be able to establish diplomatic ties with Israel? They haven't helped the Jews in the past. Why now?

And why don't the Jews take refuge in Egypt instead on the small space in Rafah?
 
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No. That wasn't exactly my question. It's not so much "how" Saudi Arabia will help but "why" on God's green earth would anyone think Saudi Arabia could successfully establish diplomatic ties with Israel after all I mentioned in my post #11.
 
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"It is also important to note that any resolution to the conflict will likely require difficult compromises and concessions from both sides, as well as a willingness to engage in good-faith negotiations."

A line I just read some where and the words "difficult compromises" struck me as a key to any good faith dialogue about what either side will "give up" that is something very important that defines who and what they are. For instances Hamas must quite any violent behavior against any and every Israeli. I know that will never happen but something like that must be stopped. so just for kicks, Israel says they can have their sovereign statehood that they will respect. That might work.

I would like to see this end and peace found over there before I die, but I think it not going to happen. I can't see anyway for them to stop hating each other. The violence gives them no break for a generation to be raised with a peaceful environment to organize their societies around. We should be bringing all our troops home and quit spending so much of our capital on foreign conflicts. Maybe our dependency on vital products from other countries are critical and it takes a strong military to protect our interests over seas. Do we have an infrastructure in this country that is stable? The immigrant problem could be looked after if our troops were back.

None of this is in the desires of the average American citizen. Most of us don't have enough power to change a crosswalk rule. This election should be a kicker. A whole lot of BIG issues are going to be decided on which way we head into the future.
 
I have no intention of taking sides. I am interested in the implications of anger over the support of Israel's demolishing all of Palestine, and killing at least 30,000 civilians to seek and destroy Hamas terrorists. It seems, and please let me know of the resources used if this is refuted, that the percentage of people around the world, including the majority of heads of state want Israel to stop fighting, and that countries supplying Israel with military aid stop.

Why is Israel continuing it's onslaught if most of the whole world thinks it is criminal and inhuman to continue? What are Israel's reasons? They care what the world thinks of them. So why keep it up. They know that the world understands the complexity of the issues, especially the heads of state. It has gone too far is what the world thinks. Now it is a humanitarian crisis and will be devastating if it continues. What could possibly be the results of destroying what's left of Palestine, and possible killing millions of innocent people?

I care about this because it affects everyone, everywhere. If this was happening in L.A. and our military was deployed to destroy every building and kill 30,000 civilians to get to and kill the "bad" people, then the rest of the U.S. would think nothing of it? This happening to a country that the U.S. is intimately connected with. We are even accused of complicity to commit genocide in this war.

People who read this will have their own reactions, and I hope they express them. I want to find a way to discuss important issues. As soon as anyone uses the phrase "you" "your" in their response. It will be quoted and exposed as ad hominem behavior.
 

Progress made in hostage talks after U.S. presents new proposal, sources say​

We can only hope.

U.S., Qatari and Egyptian officials presented a new more detailed framework for a hostage deal to Israeli negotiators during a key meeting in Paris on Friday, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the issue.

The big picture: The updated framework proposes that Hamas release roughly 40 hostages held in Gaza in exchange for a six-week ceasefire and the freeing of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, the sources said. It also would allow some Palestinians to begin returning to northern Gaza.


MSN
 
A major factor exacerbating this problem, Dennis, is that ...

... despite financial contributions to Gaza (millions of actual dollars...real money) from the US and other "western" countries, a few ME countries, and numerous global humanitarian and charitable organizations every freaking year for decades, Hamas, Gaza's all-encompassing leadership -political, social, judicial, religious, martial, educational, and health and human services- has failed to build the infrastructure and systems necessary to help their people overcome and recover from disasters and emergencies both natural and man-made.

They've had the resources handed to them for no other reason than that they exist...self-proclaimed, mind you...and Hamas has frittered those resources away on military weapons and vast underground tunnels, bunkers, offices...cities and fortresses, basically, with one goal; eliminate Jews.

And after the world helps their people recover from the war Hamas instigated on Oct 7, 2023, that goal will remain unchanged.
 
Perhaps if you really desired to be "balanced" there would also be a bit about the Palestinian song called "Stab the Zionists" with lyrics that go: “With an axe, a knife, a gun, and a rifle I’ll kill you… I’ll cleanse my country of every Jew” - But I guess that wouldn't be possible since there's been a major effort over the last few years to remove all mention of it from the Internet. :mad:
And then we'd need a post about the Israeli choir of little girls singing about annihilating all the people of Gaza. Followed by the clip of the little boys in Hebrewschool being coaxed to talk about how they'd would kill an Arab boy if they met one in the street......There is a lot of projection coming out of that region.
 
Why have the Palestinians repeatedly refused the offer of a separate state?
Under Yasser Arafat, the Palestinians did accept in principle, a two state solution. At the time, there was only one other issue to settle and that was the Right of Return for 750,000 Palestinians still residing in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon where they'd fled to back in '48 out of fear of the Jews. But Israeli's refuse to allow them to return to their homes and farms and at this point, a lot of those villages have disappeared as illegal settlers have taken up residence in the occupied territories.

Under the Geneva Convention, an occupier is not allowed to settle their now people in lands that they've taken over and Israel is a signatory of the GC. That is why they're called illegal settlements. And those settlers are notoriously violent and frequently attack and even kill the Palestinians who are trying to protect their homes, their olive trees and their farms, often with the IDF standing by and just watching.
 
Israel is focused on eradicating Hamas terrorists completely and I don't see them changing their minds until that job is done...no matter what negotiations are being discussed by the rest of the world leaders. Hitler did it, then Hamas...and now Israel is done with standing idly by as they watch hatred and war crimes against their people to continue.

And Iran has supported Hamas's horrific efforts, driven by hatred, to start and continue this horrific war against the Jews. So why would the White House think Saudi Arabia, would be able to establish diplomatic ties with Israel? They haven't helped the Jews in the past. Why now?

And why don't the Jews take refuge in Egypt instead on the small space in Rafah?
You're suggesting that Egypt should allow Palestinians so how do you as an American, feel about S. Americans fleeing to seek refuge from drug cartel violence, etc., in the USA?
 
A major factor exacerbating this problem, Dennis, is that ...

goal to eliminate Jews............
And after the world helps their people recover from the war Hamas instigated on Oct 7, 2023, that goal will remain unchanged.

Why do so many ignore that Israel has stolen the homes, farms and entire villages and for the past 70 years, have deprived them of food and water and homes and murdered and imprisoned Palestinian men, women and children without hesitation? And then accuse Palestinians of doing exactly what any of us would be wanting to do, if some 'foreign' government came in and did the same things to us? Do we criticize the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto for using Molotov cocktails and whatever weapons they could find, to take out Nazi's in their bid to avoid being killed?
 
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Why do so many ignore that Israel has stolen the homes, farms and entire villages and for the past 70 years, have deprived them of food and water and homes and murdered and imprisoned Palestinian men, women and children without hesitation? And then accuse Palestinians of doing exactly what any of us would be wanting to do, if some 'foreign' government came in and did the same things to us? Do we criticize the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto for using Molotov cocktails and whatever weapons they could find, to take out Nazi's in their bid to avoid being killed?
"Israel has stolen the homes, farms and entire villages"

"deprived [Palestinians] of food and water and homes and murdered and imprisoned Palestinian men, women and children without hesitation?"

When and where did these things happen? Please be specific.
 


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