Has Everyone Become Helpless? (Rant)

[OldEngineer]

Goddess me, it's so strange... I find myself doing more and more research for people online. That's one reason I gave up on something called Neighbours site.

Just a few keystrokes and Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt...

Three sites are my best go-to to find answers.

Wikipedia
E-How
YouTube for every DIY (mind you some are bad, but some are amazing, just watch)

Medical, it's WebMD, then NHS Scotland, England or Wales
I'm always looking for natural remedies, then no need to visit the surgery. Doctors are available, unfortunately, the receptionists are the ones saying no availability... Yup, hard facts, so you've got to research for alternatives, BUT providing you know what ails you, of course...

In charity shop called Ardgowan Hospice, I found a second hand book by Tommy Walsh who used to be with Charlie and Allen Tishmarch on that garden makeover.

I took it, it's jammed pack with good DIY...

Well, regardless, if you need help, just howler! If I can find it I will, and as long as it's safe...

Wikipedia has a lot of good things going for it and it is a great source of information if used correctly, keeping in mind it is user-generated and user-edited.
For me Wikipedia requires special consideration. It is user-generated and with some stealth, hackers can (and did) falsify information. It's advantage is that it is really an encyclopedia, and it has current information on almost every significant topic. I just double-check it when the information is fresh and hasn't been fact-checked by volunteer experts. Sometimes bad info slips through. I do love and use it, although I would not put it at the top of my list.
A while back, Katherine Maher, CEO of the Wikimedia Foundation said this in the Washington Post.
“Wikipedia is very open about that fact that we’re not a reliable source. It’s actually a tenet of Wikipedia, which isn’t to say we’re not a good place to start,” Maher said. “We are a great place to start. We just want people to have the ability to read the content on Wikipedia with a critical eye.”

 

[hollydolly]

I don't have much self confidence to do things. I'll tend to self debricate and my mind shuts down. But some things if I need to, I can consult YouTube or other things online. The internet is very helpful.

I can do some crafty things. Years ago in the 80's, a co-worker asked me to fix the lining of her hat which I did. She couldn't hold a needle and thread. I like to hand sew.

Every time my stepfather's closed captions disappear off his TV, which he needs, I have to go out and put them back on. I have showed him and showed him and written it down and he can't get it. And I don't know why they stop sometimes.

now you see Remy... I cannot do crafts for the life of me..I just don't have that Brain. I can knit because I learned as a tiny child at infant school.. I can sew basics, again learned as a child.. I taught myself to crochet when my daughter was a baby.. but they are all basic levels..

I cannot make craft things.. card making, flower arranging, I see thousands of ''how to videos'' on youtube.. and it's like my brain runs for the hills, it just doesn't sink in... I can't use a sewing machine.. again the brain goes on vacation...

however I've always been able to work with wood... take an old piece of furniture and sand it down, repaint or re-varnish it...to a good standard

 

[caroln]

I forgot how to program my VCR. I'm sure there's a YouTube for that! I'm so lazy........

Me too. I have trouble remembering how to even watch a DVD. But my VCR is so old that You Tube or the internet wasn't even in existence, so I doubt I'd find instructions there, even from the manufacturer!

 

[dilettante]

however I've always been able to work with wood... take an old piece of furniture and sand it down, repaint or re-varnish it...to a good standard

How good are you at roofing?

 

[Pepper]

Me too. I have trouble remembering how to even watch a DVD. But my VCR is so old that You Tube or the internet wasn't even in existence, so I doubt I'd find instructions there, even from the manufacturer!

If I ever get around to it I'll let you know and I bet there is!

 

[hollydolly]

How good are you at roofing?

wot dya want done ?

 

[OldFeller]

I don't have much self confidence to do things. I'll tend to self debricate and my mind shuts down. But some things if I need to, I can consult YouTube or other things online. The internet is very helpful.

I can do some crafty things. Years ago in the 80's, a co-worker asked me to fix the lining of her hat which I did. She couldn't hold a needle and thread. I like to hand sew.

Every time my stepfather's closed captions disappear off his TV, which he needs, I have to go out and put them back on. I have showed him and showed him and written it down and he can't get it. And I don't know why they stop sometimes.

He needs a new TV and a simpler remote.

My remote has a button labeled "CC". Guess what that turns on. LOL

 

[bobcat]

What gets me are the directions included with products that have absolutely no written text at all, just pictures. I am sort of a visual learner, but really??? I had to put together a metal bed frame that came in a thousand pieces (okay, maybe not a thousand) with just a few pictures and some arrows pointing here and there. Took me all friggin' day.

Yeah, I have come to learn that the people who write directions aren't the ones who designed the product, engineered it, or even used it. They are a segment of writers called "Technical Writers", and often they aren't familiar with the product, so they research it a bit "online", and we all know how accurate some of that content is.

Plus, they have to stay within the parameters of how brief or comprehensive the company wants the instructions to be. I met a Technical Writer once, and got clued in. If the company wants pictures so they don't have to put the instructions in 7 different languages, then you get pictures that can be very vague and confusing, so I know the frustration you feel.

 

[Remy]

now you see Remy... I cannot do crafts for the life of me..I just don't have that Brain. I can knit because I learned as a tiny child at infant school.. I can sew basics, again learned as a child.. I taught myself to crochet when my daughter was a baby.. but they are all basic levels..

I cannot make craft things.. card making, flower arranging, I see thousands of ''how to videos'' on youtube.. and it's like my brain runs for the hills, it just doesn't sink in... I can't use a sewing machine.. again the brain goes on vacation...

however I've always been able to work with wood... take an old piece of furniture and sand it down, repaint or re-varnish it...to a good standard

I probably could not do the refinishing. I painted a wall shelf once I got at the thrift store. That's about it.

My knitting and crochet skills are not great but I taught myself to knit more than the basics in my forties. Considering my mother taught me to knit when I was very young, I'm surprised I still like to.

 

[OldEngineer]

I don't have much self confidence to do things. I'll tend to self debricate and my mind shuts down. But some things if I need to, I can consult YouTube or other things online. The internet is very helpful.

I can do some crafty things. Years ago in the 80's, a co-worker asked me to fix the lining of her hat which I did. She couldn't hold a needle and thread. I like to hand sew.

Every time my stepfather's closed captions disappear off his TV, which he needs, I have to go out and put them back on. I have showed him and showed him and written it down and he can't get it. And I don't know why they stop sometimes.

Maybe he's actually learned how to turn them off & just wants the company?

 

[Teacher Terry]

I’m not very mechanical or handy. Since being alone I have fixed a few things using YouTube. Living in a condo there’s not a lot to do but I also have a good handyman that I can hire.

2 of my friends are very good at putting things together so when I ordered a glass coffee table that arrived in pieces they did it for me. That’s beyond my capabilities. However, I can paint, refinish woodwork, furniture, hand sew and do basic knitting.

 

[katlupe]

I have fixed a number of things with YouTube instructions. I was able to set up a new computer, removed Windows and installed Ubuntu on my own. My husband did my last one and I had that for many years. So I had no one to ask since everybody I know uses Windows. Now I am working on another computer problem but I will figure it out even if it takes me a long time. I also found what was wrong with my mobility chair using YouTube. Even though I did not do the repairs I was able to figure out what it needed and show someone the video of how to do it.

 

[DebraMae]

I have learned to do a lot while on my own. Physical strength is where I usually get stymied. The older I get the less of that I have.

Neighbor woman used to call me every time she had a dead battery. She just didn't want to learn. I jumped her car and sent her on her way for a new battery one day. She turned around and came back and called a man to come take care of it. He arrived with a battery and changed it out for her. I think maybe her priorities were different from mine.

 

[VaughanJB]

I have noticed recently while going thru different social media that it seems that everyone is helpless. I continually see posts asking how to do very simple items around the house or dealing with a car. While I recognize that not everyone is mechanically inclined how hard is it to google it? I mean are people so lazy that they will ask a bunch of people online, who don’t know either, or just look at the internet to discover someone who can.
I spent my early years in the Navy and could not afford repair people to come and fix stuff, I had to learn it. Friends would get together to figure items out and help. I really hope there is a small percentage of our young people who understand that being part of the trades is a very respectable living or we are doomed.

It's true, the internet has dumbed us down. The flip side are people who argue with experts based on "their own research", which amounts to reading half an article that turned up in a Google search. You can find answers to specific questions reasonably easy (most of the time), but when it comes to real knowledge, that's earned, and not found in a five minute search engine experience.

 

[officerripley]

I know that for a while our local secondary/high schools were including some mandatory practical instruction in things like repairing a hole or scrape in drywall, fixing a leaky faucet, etc. It was a way of inculcating a feeling of "can do" for those students (girls included) who might not be getting much instruction of that type at home. I don't know if this has continued.

No way at my high school: in fact I overheard 2 of the teachers talking about how they were glad that aptitude tests had been done away with since there was no way a person could earn a living working with their hands so there was no point teaching the kids that stuff. And that was back in the 60s. And unfortunately they were right: in that area even at that time, you couldn't earn much of a living working with your hands; about the only tool you could earn a living using was a slide rule (or an medical or law degree).

And come forward in time to the 1980s, someone told me that he heard a community (2-year) college professor refer to working with your hands as "meatball jobs."

So this is not altogether new, people not being able to fix things; at least where I grew up, kids aren't being taught it, sometimes purposefully.

 

[hollydolly]

No way at my high school: in fact I overheard 2 of the teachers talking about how they were glad that aptitude tests had been done away with since there was no way a person could earn a living working with their hands so there was no point teaching the kids that stuff. And that was back in the 60s. And unfortunately they were right: in that area even at that time, you couldn't earn much of a living working with your hands; about the only tool you could earn a living using was a slide rule (or an medical or law degree).

And come forward in time to the 1980s, someone told me that he heard a community (2-year) college professor refer to working with your hands as "meatball jobs."

So this is not altogether new, people not being able to fix things; at least where I grew up, kids aren't being taught it, sometimes purposefully.

In our school.. it was mandatory for the boys to take woodwork classes.. technical drawing class, and Metalwork class

The girls were not allowed to take those classes, and had to take homecraft.. (sewing and cooking)...

I would have been much better with the former given the chance, but it wasn't to be.

Later while my younger sister was still at that school and about a year after I left, they allowed the different sexes to do all classes..

 

[jet]

i have always done things my self,trouble is now im getting to old,,but the standard of trades these days is rubbish,i think they use google to show them how to do things

 

[JBR]

To officerripley's point, the attitude you're describing came naturally out of the times, I suppose. But slide rules turned into calculators & computers. For a while there were a lot of new roles & jobs that could offer people a way to make a decent living. But my region, as well as many others, became awash with computer programmers, website designers, and certain kinds of tech consultants. The glut resulted in a downward spiral of decreasing opportunity & reduced income.

So you not only wind up with a considerable population who don't know how to approach basic home skills, but as well are educated but underemployed. This is why trades like plumber, carpenter, electrician, small-engine mechanic, etc are now attracting practical-minded people who are capable of developing a work ethic. At least in my region.

 

[officerripley]

In our school.. it was mandatory for the boys to take woodwork classes.. technical drawing class, and Metalwork class

The girls were not allowed to take those classes, and had to take homecraft.. (sewing and cooking)...

I would have been much better t the former given the chance, but it wasn't to be.

Later while my younger sister was still at that school and about a year after I left, they allowed the different sexes to do all classes..

At my school,, the boys didn't have to take what they called shop classes. (They could if they wanted and some did but they were always of the "lower" class and were ridiculed by the rich guys--"what a farmer!", "car mechanic" said scornfully. I overheard one of the popular guys bragging about how he was glad he didn't have to work on his own car--which he was gifted with on his 16th birthday of couse--that's what his Dad's mechanic was for.)

The girls at my school weren't allowed to take shop classes but did have to take what they called "home economics which I think was unfair but I gather the thinking was "You boys who graduate will be smart enough we hope to get a job where you don't have to use your hands but you girls will need to learn how to make hors d'oeuvres for the cocktail parties you and your husband will have.

 

[David777]

is:
Has Everyone Become Helpless?

should be:
Are more people Becoming Helpless?

 

[officerripley]

But my region, as well as many others, became awash with computer programmers, website designers, and certain kinds of tech consultants. The glut resulted in a downward spiral of decreasing opportunity & reduced income.

Yep, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area (future home of Silicon Valley) where the same thing happened; after World War II, the area was flooded with guys like my dad who wanted to work in the defense contracting industry instead of farming like their dads. And that arrogant attitude you hear about the "Tech Bros"? It was prevalent in that area way back then. As I mentioned earlier, one of the worst insults that a guy could give another guy at my high school was to call him "Farmer {insert name}".

So this thing of it not only being okay to not work with your hands but being proud of it has been going on for a long time. And not just where I grew up, my dad traveled for work down to Southern California a lot to the plants down there and I heard that there was a lot of defense contracting industry going on in other parts of the country, Boston, Texas, etc.

 

[jujube]

Yeah, I have come to learn that the people who write directions aren't the ones who designed the product, engineered it, or even used it. They are a segment of writers called "Technical Writers", and often they aren't familiar with the product, so they research it a bit "online", and we all know how accurate some of that content is.

Plus, they have to stay within the parameters of how brief or comprehensive the company wants the instructions to be. I met a Technical Writer once, and got clued in. If the company wants pictures so they don't have to put the instructions in 7 different languages, then you get pictures that can be very vague and confusing, so I know the frustration you feel.

The Spousal Equivalent, after leaving the Navy, went to work for the Department of Defense, writing training manuals for "fire control" systems (weapon systems guidance) training manuals.

He would have to condense 600 pages of specs into a 60-page manual that anyone could understand......or 2000 pages into 400 pages.....depending on the equipment.

His masters degree is in Educational Technology.

It left him with the inability to read for pleasure. After all those years of having to read every.single.freaking.word of 2000 pages, he can't comfortably read recreational where you can do a lot of skimming.

Give him a manual, though, and he'll have that machine built in no time at all with every screw in place and all the o-rings tight......

 

[Happy Heart]

My husband did all the D-I-Y around here.. decorating to plumbing..electrics to car maintenance and computer technology ... I would be his ''joey''.. being there to hand everything, hold ladders steady.. prepare everything in advance for him that I knew he might need etc..

when he left with no warning whatsoever.. I was left not knowing how to repair those things.. ..I asked him how was I supposed to fix these things.. and he said sharply ''Learn''...

Well, as I told him, to learn something, first you need to have a teacher.. and so if that's a human, a book, or a video, you first need to be shown how ..

Anyway..I'll never be a plumber, decorator, ( altho' I have painted all the doors and woodwork since he's been gone) or electrician.. but in the 2 years he;s not been here I've learned a huge load more about my computer and my IPhone and their techi sides.. about my car ( I've always been able to do the basics anyway)... but my point is... I had to get taught to do it.. and i learned by using the internet, and asking people... and tbh..I think people genuinely like to be asked and feel flattered by it if someone thinks they are proficient at something..enough to want to pick their brains..

I 'm perfectly capable of searching the internet for instruction..but if I see that someone ..on this forum for example has made a good job out of a thing..then I won't be shy in asking them for instruction..

I hear you. My ex was off chasing the wind but our VW Beetle need a tune up, had no money to pay for labor and just enough to buy a few spark plugs from K-Mart. It took me all day, with the repair manual by my side, but that little blue Bug never ran better. I would have made a good mechanic but I need to pay the mortgage so I found a job that would pay sooner than I could learn the trade. The ex drove the little blue bug to Colorado so I traded him in for a better model and now life is good.

 

[OldEngineer]

Yeah, I have come to learn that the people who write directions aren't the ones who designed the product, engineered it, or even used it. They are a segment of writers called "Technical Writers", and often they aren't familiar with the product, so they research it a bit "online", and we all know how accurate some of that content is.

Plus, they have to stay within the parameters of how brief or comprehensive the company wants the instructions to be. I met a Technical Writer once, and got clued in. If the company wants pictures so they don't have to put the instructions in 7 different languages, then you get pictures that can be very vague and confusing, so I know the frustration you feel.

I've worked with a lot of tech writers and you are absolutely correct about the way many of them do their job. There are others that bug the heck out of the engineers to 'help' them write it. But for high end products, the tech writers are well-qualified engineers and frequently participate in the design and testing throughout the development of the product and the manuals/instructions are a source of pride.
And then there are the 'far east' companies that cut every corner and penny. The qualification for writing the instructions or user manual is minimal and speaking fluent English isn't high on the list which makes for poor documentation. But that's not the only source of confusion. The other issue is culture. Simply put, logical thought vs tradition is vastly different between our cultures and shows up from design to use to description for products.

 

[OldEngineer]

Goddess me, it's so strange... I find myself doing more and more research for people online. That's one reason I gave up on something called Neighbours site.

Just a few keystrokes and Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt...

Three sites are my best go-to to find answers.

Wikipedia
E-How
YouTube for every DIY (mind you some are bad, but some are amazing, just watch)

Medical, it's WebMD, then NHS Scotland, England or Wales
I'm always looking for natural remedies, then no need to visit the surgery. Doctors are available, unfortunately, the receptionists are the ones saying no availability... Yup, hard facts, so you've got to research for alternatives, BUT providing you know what ails you, of course...

In charity shop called Ardgowan Hospice, I found a second hand book by Tommy Walsh who used to be with Charlie and Allen Tishmarch on that garden makeover.

I took it, it's jammed pack with good DIY...

Well, regardless, if you need help, just howler! If I can find it I will, and as long as it's safe...

Just who is Bob and why is he my uncle? I thought my uncle was Sam (Uncle Sam). So are Bob and Sam brothers? And is Fanny their sister?