Have we the "Guts"?

imp

Senior Member
Example: My lifelong friend in Chicago, Charlie, my age less 7 days, is a hypochondriac. Two years ago, his PSA was 5-something, a biopsy was recommended. At that point in time, I would have had a 2nd. opinion Dr. do a digital exam. Charlie had the biopsy, revealing a small cancer. After options were offered, he opted for the radioactive "seeds" implantation. I told him, if it were me, I would refuse it. He went ahead. His suffering due to the process continues today. 97 needles were inserted through the pericardium (the "no-man's land" in-between) into his prostate. 97! The seeds remain forever. They emit radiation for only several weeks. He was told to not allow himself to occupy a room with any pregnant woman for a month, nor allow any child to sit on his lap! Nice, huh? For months he experienced pain, bleeding, uncontrollable dribbling, all claimed to be "acceptable". His PSA has since gone down. Possibly because his prostate gland is now destroyed? No telling.

Recently, routine testing detected trace blood in his urine. CT scan, Ultrasound, he was given the images: 2 kidney stones, one 1.4 cm, the other 0.4 cm. I picture the tubes connecting kidney to bladder as being perhaps 2mm in diameter, though I am no Doctor. Thus, in my mind, neither stone could possibly lodge in, and block a tube (the "ureter"). Furthermore, such size stones do not form overnight. Perhaps over many years. No symptoms, just trace blood, which could have many unimportant sources. The medicos immediately set him up for a "non-surgical" shock-wave treatment following insertion of a stent in one ureter. These procedures are newer than my store of medical recollection, especially since traditional sound-wave shock break-up of stones was done with patient immersed in a tub of water. His procedure used no bath. Entirely done under anesthesia, it was performed two weeks ago. Since then, he has intense pain upon urination, constant leakage, bleeding, and extreme mental consternation. Post-procedure, he must filter all urine produced through a screen, examining for particles of the stones. He has found none. Urologist expects that a repeat of the shock-wave will be necessary. Charlie has the images, sees the stones present, that much is true. Is he being used to generate revenue?

Nah! Impossible! Just like the "cyst" a nefarious oral surgeon insisted existed in my own upper jawbone when I was 19, proposing horrible surgery to remove it. No cyst existed. Should Charlie have displayed more "guts"? Should he have followed the often entertained "wait and watch" process, at 73?

Ever hear of "prevention hysterectomy"? Certain signs indicate possible predisposition to uterine cancer, so yank out the uterus, to prevent a cancer which maybe, or likely, never appears? Same deal with breast cancer.

Should folks display more "guts" in their response to medically-frightening scenerios when confronted with them? Numerous times during my lifetime, Medicine introduced fear, implying treatment was absolutely mandatory, as in 2005, when my Dr., acting on an elevated white blood cell count, ordered a bone marrow biopsy. I refused it. Why? Because the count was 10% above the high limit shown by the lab performing the work-up, AND, my Merck Medical Manual indicated that THEIR upper limit was higher than my own cell count! 10 years ago, evidently no blood cancer, I'm still my old, damned, cranky self.

Am I understandable here? Or rather, a rebel to be dismissed as the medical-quackery quack? Your call, now. imp
 

Pretty boring, I admit. Got carried away. Sorry. More careful next time. imp
 

OK here's one...

About 3 years ago I had a mammogram after 5 years skipping them. After doing 25 X-ray images they finally found a "suspicious" spot. This would have been the 3rd mammogram in which such a spot was found, out of at most maybe a dozen total in my life.

The first time they wanted to do a biopsy, back when it was a more serious surgery. I said I'd gamble. Six months follow-up, whatever it was disappeared. Second time they first wanted to do an ultrasound, so I agreed. Disappeared already.

This time they wanted to do a needle biopsy, not so complicated. I almost agreed just to get it over with, until they said they would put 2 titanium markers permanently at the spot. They refused to do it without the markers, so I said let's wait for 6 months. I won't go into details but these markers made no sense. I got registered letters from primary doctor and surgeon telling me I should do this---no phone call, just the letters that required my signature (CYA). Six months later they did 15 more X-rays and whatever it was disappeared---a total of 40 X-rays later!

So yes, I guess one might call it guts, but it was more like understanding the difference between what's likely, what's unlikely, and what's a certainty.

I will never get another routine mammogram.
 
I admit to being a hypochondriac, but my preoccupations extend well past being frightened about the possibility of having a serious medical condition. I am also frightened by the reports of gross incompetency among medical professionals both in terms of diagnosis as well as treatment. So, like Phil, I end up doing what I think is right for me.
 
Imp, I've heard that there are a lot of unnecessary biopsies done and some do more harm than good. Also, they say older men may die with prostate cancer, but not from it.

Nancy, oddly enough I have refused to get a mammogram for the past five years, and after urging from my husband, and going for a check up (every few years only for bloodwork), and having the doctor hound me about it, I actually have an appointment set for tomorrow. Hopefully it will not cause them to want to do anything with me. I have a friend who had those implants and biopsies, etc., was even in the hospital for removal of a lump.

I think they'll give you as many tests as they can, do as many surgeries as they can, and put you on as many meds as they can if you let them. I also agreed with my husbands push for me to get a shingles shot, hopefully I won't regret that...I don't even take flu vaccines anymore. I really try to avoid x-rays, even at the dentist.
 
OK here's one...

About 3 years ago I had a mammogram after 5 years skipping them. After doing 25 X-ray images they finally found a "suspicious" spot. This would have been the 3rd mammogram in which such a spot was found, out of at most maybe a dozen total in my life.

The first time they wanted to do a biopsy, back when it was a more serious surgery. I said I'd gamble. Six months follow-up, whatever it was disappeared. Second time they first wanted to do an ultrasound, so I agreed. Disappeared already.

This time they wanted to do a needle biopsy, not so complicated. I almost agreed just to get it over with, until they said they would put 2 titanium markers permanently at the spot. They refused to do it without the markers, so I said let's wait for 6 months. I won't go into details but these markers made no sense. I got registered letters from primary doctor and surgeon telling me I should do this---no phone call, just the letters that required my signature (CYA). Six months later they did 15 more X-rays and whatever it was disappeared---a total of 40 X-rays later!

So yes, I guess one might call it guts, but it was more like understanding the difference between what's likely, what's unlikely, and what's a certainty.

I will never get another routine mammogram.

You have been where I travelled, too! Years back, my wife, who has had feelable small lumps all her adult life, encountered an "ordered" needle biopsy; worst thing she said she had ever endured medically! Pap smear next checkup, specialist said "unusual cells" were present, ordered a cone biopsy of her cervix. We investigated what that meant: surgical excision of the entrance to the cervix! WE PASSED! It's been over 35 years now, and she is still well. Seems some doctors are able to differentiate between breast cysts and real tumors, based both on X-ray results, and feeling them, where feelable.

Recently, X-rays showed a new lump; an ultrasound was done. The interpretation was, no further investigation. imp
 
Imp, I've heard that there are a lot of unnecessary biopsies done and some do more harm than good. Also, they say older men may die with prostate cancer, but not from it.

Nancy, oddly enough I have refused to get a mammogram for the past five years, and after urging from my husband, and going for a check up (every few years only for bloodwork), and having the doctor hound me about it, I actually have an appointment set for tomorrow. Hopefully it will not cause them to want to do anything with me. I have a friend who had those implants and biopsies, etc., was even in the hospital for removal of a lump.

I think they'll give you as many tests as they can, do as many surgeries as they can, and put you on as many meds as they can if you let them. I also agreed with my husbands push for me to get a shingles shot, hopefully I won't regret that...I don't even take flu vaccines anymore. I really try to avoid x-rays, even at the dentist.

SB, the results of the mammogram are your property, you know, it's your body. If you do not usually request and get copies of all medical images and blood work-ups, only the medico's viewing of them is pertinent, and you must believe anything they say or recommend. They WILL render numerous tests, and SOME are vitally important, to be sure! The CBC (Complete Blood Count) is one, especially in our later years.

Regarding Shingles, I can tell you it is a most painful and distressful experience; I got them in 1980, serious blistering across my front chest and under the armpits, around onto my back. The Shingles vaccine is likely a good thing, IMO. Flu shots have allowed both of us to escape the winter flu since we began getting them, 12 years ago, so good, also, IMO.

X-rays are important, but only for specific purposes. Don't fear them because they are radiation, but rather more for the "intangibles" the doctors sometimes see in them. Best of luck tomorrow. imp
 
Hey Imp What the hell does your friend Charlie's being a Hypochondriac have to do with your pleasant medical dissertation on prostate procedure and hysterectomies? Not being able to focus thought and stay on track can be indicative of early stage dementia, but would need a second opinion of course.
 
Hey Imp What the hell does your friend Charlie's being a Hypochondriac have to do with your pleasant medical dissertation on prostate procedure and hysterectomies? Not being able to focus thought and stay on track can be indicative of early stage dementia, but would need a second opinion of course.

Are multiple trains of thought too much to pile on at once, old timer? :rolleyes: imp
 
Well... I'm not going to have a single medical screening test... for anything...because they might find something.. Does that make sense?
 


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