Health Care CEO murdered in NYC in a targeted attack

[jimintoronto]

Because few people can afford to pay cash for it. My cataract removals were each billed at $30,000, before Medicare took care of the vast majority of it. Shocking, and of course I know that Medicare didn't pay the entire enchilada. BUT cash customers would have paid a small fortune to have 2 cataracts removed. There's a lot of profit built into that figure ($60K total) ... assuming anyone actually pays that.

Meanwhile, here in Ontario that same medical procedure costs the patient NOTHING. Yep, no charge at the point of service, covered under the Ontario Health Insurance Program called OHIP. Yes we ALL pay into it through our income taxes, which are about 5 percent higher here, than on the same income in the USA, would be. The Doctor who did mine in 2022 has 30 years of experience and he trains other Doctors from all over the world here at Toronto's Western Hospital. JIM.

 

[Rakaia]

Because few people can afford to pay cash for it. My cataract removals were each billed at $30,000, before Medicare took care of the vast majority of it.

Knock me down with a feather, that is ridiculous.
The lens is as cheap as chips, someone is clearly being greedy.
I was effectively blind in one eye so I paid cash to avoid being on the public waiting list, I paid a massive $AUD ~3500.00, which is many times more than the cost of performing cataract surgery in Nepal, Vietnam or Eritrea.

 

[Happyflowerlady]

I am seeing in the news that they have dropped the charges against Mangione for the murdered of the CEO ! They decided there was not enough evidence to try him. If they didn’t have the evidence for the cahrges, why did they arrest him and keep him incarcerated all this time ?
I wonder why they are dropping the charges, it looked like they had the pictures of him actually killing the guy. Maybe they can’t be sure it was actually him ?

 

[HoneyNut]

I wonder why they are dropping the charges, it looked like they had the pictures of him actually killing the guy.

They didn't drop all charges, I think they only dropped the 'terrorism' charges. I'd guess because it was a personal issue for him (his own back pain and healthcare denial issue) not an ideological issue?

 

[Deya]

I am seeing in the news that they have dropped the charges against Mangione for the murdered of the CEO ! They decided there was not enough evidence to try him. If they didn’t have the evidence for the cahrges, why did they arrest him and keep him incarcerated all this time ?
I wonder why they are dropping the charges, it looked like they had the pictures of him actually killing the guy. Maybe they can’t be sure it was actually him ?

They only removed the terrorism charges. The murder charges still stand. I read second degree although I don't understand why not first, since it was planned and meditated.

 

[CallMeKate]

They only removed the terrorism charges. The murder charges still stand. I read second degree although I don't understand why not first, since it was planned and meditated.

New York has very touchy rules about being able to charge 1st degree... so that's why 2nd. I *think* that an act of terrorism would have qualified for 1st degree, but with today's ruling, the 2nd degree will have to stand. Also remember that there are both NY state and federal charges separate.

 

[Deya]

New York has very touchy rules about being able to charge 1st degree... so that's why 2nd. I *think* that an act of terrorism would have qualified for 1st degree, but with today's ruling, the 2nd degree will have to stand. Also remember that there are both NY state and federal charges separate.

With a defense fund of 1.5 million and his cult like following, I think he will be found not guilty, since the trial will be held in New York. I think the jury will be afraid for their lives, if they find him guilty.

 

[KSav]

With a defense fund of 1.5 million and his cult like following, I think he will be found not guilty since the trial will be held in New York. I think the jury will be afraid for their lives, if they find him guilty.

I agree. And I think that is both sad and unsettling.

 

[CallMeKate]

With a defense fund of 1.5 million and his cult like following, I think he will be found not guilty, since the trial will be held in New York. I think the jury will be afraid for their lives, if they find him guilty.

Being found not guilty for the NY state charges would not automatically dismiss the federal charges.

 

[JustDave]

I am seeing in the news that they have dropped the charges against Mangione for the murdered of the CEO ! They decided there was not enough evidence to try him. If they didn’t have the evidence for the cahrges, why did they arrest him and keep him incarcerated all this time ?
I wonder why they are dropping the charges, it looked like they had the pictures of him actually killing the guy. Maybe they can’t be sure it was actually him ?

I didn't expect that, and I doubt we know or understand everything involved. Terrorism? Probably not. It was more like a personal vendetta. Murder is what I would expect. He's not going to be walking the streets for awhile, I don't think.

 

[Deya]

Being found not guilty for the NY state charges would not automatically dismiss the federal charges.

If a Federal trial was held in NY, then I doubt he would be found guilty, unless the jurors ID was kept secret, and they wore mask. It also depends on the Federal judge's political affiliation.

 

[hawkdon]

New York Supreme Court Justice Gregory Carro said the evidence presented to the grand jury doesn’t support charges of murder in the first and second degrees under the state’s terrorism statute. Mangione will still face a trial on murder in the second degree and other related counts but he no longer faces the possibility of life in prison without parole.
this from MSN news.....

 

[oldman]

New York Supreme Court Justice Gregory Carro said the evidence presented to the grand jury doesn’t support charges of murder in the first and second degrees under the state’s terrorism statute. Mangione will still face a trial on murder in the second degree and other related counts but he no longer faces the possibility of life in prison without parole.
this from MSN news.....

Not true. The Feds are asking for the death penalty, unless that has also changed.

 

[CallMeKate]

Not true. The Feds are asking for the death penalty, unless that has also changed.

I don't think it's changed... I read this today:
"While second-degree murder is technically less severe than the previous top state charges against Mangione, he still faces a potential sentence of 25 years to life in prison, if convicted. And Tuesday’s ruling did nothing to alter the federal murder case against him, for which the Justice Department plans to seek the death penalty."

 

[WhatInThe]

With a defense fund of 1.5 million and his cult like following, I think he will be found not guilty, since the trial will be held in New York. I think the jury will be afraid for their lives, if they find him guilty.

He might have rabid fans but I don't see this as other high profile cases. That being said this will make or break a prosecutor's or defense lawyer's career.

Also Manson had groupies and ex members showing up at his trial and they still found him guilty. As time goes on I don't think the Lugi fan will be as numerous. But they'll be ginned up to say 'see even the public thinks it was justified'.

Probably the first day of jury selection or when the jury arrives for the day.

 

[Rakaia]

Sorry, but if you think it is "understandable" (your word, not mine) then to you it is acceptable.

You can interpret my words anyway you want, but it's not acceptable for you to insist that I subscribe to the belief that you imagine I have.
As I said in another post, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I don't think it's changed... I read this today:
"While second-degree murder is technically less severe than the previous top state charges against Mangione, he still faces a potential sentence of 25 years to life in prison, if convicted. And Tuesday’s ruling did nothing to alter the federal murder case against him, for which the Justice Department plans to seek the death penalty."

If a Federal trial was held in NY, then I doubt he would be found guilty, unless the jurors ID was kept secret, and they wore mask. It also depends on the Federal judge's political affiliation.

As Kate stated he will be charged federally. I would think that takes precedence over the state charges. The judge’s political affiliation will have no impact on this trial. He will be found guilty as they have video evidence and it’s a no brainer.

 

[chic]

You can interpret my words anyway you want, but it's not acceptable for you to insist that I subscribe to the belief that you imagine I have.
As I said in another post, two wrongs don't make a right.

I'd be interested to know much more about this case. I'm not certain about anything as yet. If everyone assumes he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. how will they ever find jurors for this case?

 

[911]

I'd be interested to know much more about this case. I'm not certain about anything as yet. If everyone assumes he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. how will they ever find jurors for this case?

You would be surprised at what people will say during juror interviews (voir dire) to get onto the jury of a high profile case. There are lots of people wanting to be on a jury of high profile cases in order to be interviewed post trial so they may be quoted in a book or magazine article.

 

[JustDave]

Jury selections are probably filled with all kinds of lies, either to get on the jury or off. Supposedly there are jury selection specialists (in the movies an on TV, anyway), but as far as I can tell, sorting out the lies from the real motivations sounds like guesswork to me. And to add to that, both the defense and the prosecution would take advantage of any suspected bias that they could.

They should select juries to select the jurors who make the final biased rulings to the court. I'm not taking any position on this case, but I am interested in seeing what happens.

 

[CallMeKate]

I'm not certain about anything as yet. If everyone assumes he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. how will they ever find jurors for this case?

It's really not a matter of assumption because it is on video and the entire world saw him do it. Just my opinion here, but in my mind, it would have to come down to which potential jurors do the better acting job of convincing lawyers that they don't have a verdict already in their head. (Exception would be if they actually *do* live in a cave.)

 

[Deya]

As Kate stated he will be charged federally. I would think that takes precedence over the state charges. The judge’s political affiliation will have no impact on this trial. He will be found guilty as they have video evidence and it’s a no brainer.

I hope you are right, but all it takes is one juror to get him off. It will be interesting to see how the Federal charges hold up that would get him the death penalty since the State has dismissed terrorism charges. The Federal charge of committing a murder using a firearm with a SILENCER, carries a minimum of 30 years and up to life, but not the death penalty.

How the claim of the Federal prosecutors, that the way this murder was planned and executed, was meant to put fear, nation wide, in the heath insurance CEOs and claims personal, will hold up, is of interest to me. I think they are right, but since it is just another way of presenting terrorism, a judges personal political bias might enter in when they give the jury final instructions. I hope not.

Since there are brilliant attorneys on both the defense and prosecution, this is going to be interesting. No such thing as a no brainer when brilliant attorneys go into battle. Since he has plead not guilty, it tells me the defense has something in mind. If they didn't, then they would advise him to plead guilty on the second degree murder charge. He probably wouldn't serve more than 15 years. That would take the death penalty off the table for the Feds and best they could do is get a conviction for breaking interstate gun laws and the use of a silencer. That would get him 30 years at best and possibly less depending on the judge. They are willing to gamble with his life, so this is going to be an interesting trial.

 

[Deya]

It's really not a matter of assumption because it is on video and the entire world saw him do it. Just my opinion here, but in my mind, it would have to come down to which potential jurors do the better acting job of convincing lawyers that they don't have a verdict already in their head. (Exception would be if they actually *do* live in a cave.)

The video of the actual murder never shows his face. He was connected because of other videos of him. It was a case of investigators connecting the dots. While there is no doubt in my mind he did it, because they found the gun he used in his possession, and other damning facts, without a facial video of him committing the actual murder, great defense attorneys will introduce reasonable doubt. Not reasonable in my mind, but to just one sympathetic juror, he gets off.

 

[911]

The video of the actual murder never shows his face. He was connected because of other videos of him. It was a case of investigators connecting the dots. While there is no doubt in my mind he did it, because they found the gun he used in his possession, and other damning facts, without a facial video of him committing the actual murder, great defense attorneys will introduce reasonable doubt. Not reasonable in my mind, but to just one sympathetic juror, he gets off.

No, he really doesn’t get off. The judge will likely declare a mistrial and then the Prosecution will have to decide if they want to retry the defendant. My guess is that since the Prosecution most likely already spent millions on the first trial, they may decide to offer a plea deal or if the family seeks more justice than a plea deal would bring, they may decide to retry the case.

There is also a chance the judge could intervene and say that because the jury was 8-4 for guilty, he may (very doubtful) dismiss the case. If that would happen, the Prosecutor could refile the charges and present new evidence that was not in the first trial. This often happens if the trial judge dismisses the case without prejudice.

I have been involved in second trials. I have found that when a second trial occurs, the Prosecutor comes with both barrels loaded, or in other words, he or she will have additional evidence

 

[Pepper]

Some people delight in more death