Hooray for Clarksville.

[SeaBreeze]

 

[SifuPhil]

Well, maybe it's just me, and I don't claim to be a psychologist, but observation and common sense tells me there is a real connection between the way a lot of kids are raised and the resulting violent behavior.

The lack of values and exposure to violence and adult content in media are being pushed on kids at a very early age. The lack of moral guidance, the anything goes attitude condoned by society, and desensitization to the finality of death by violent media content, in my opinion leads to abnormal psychological behavior. This is just too much for a child's immature brain to process.

When a child has been exposed to the adult concepts of sex, violence, as well as drugs and alcohol in many instances, how is the immature brain supposed to process this? By a disconnect to reality and acting out in many cases.

I'm sure there are many more factors that enter into play that culminate in this violent behavior. Parental disinterest is just one of the many components of this behavior that I listed.

This is not about children just misbehaving, pulling childish pranks as kids are want to do. But rather about children killing other children. After all, if memory serves me, most if not all of the school shootings and many of the mass shootings are committed by juveniles or young adults with homicidal rage.

As I said earlier, instead of trying to fix the problem at the root, we put patches on it, in this case arming teachers and having security guards in schools. Not against either at this point, it's just that it will not fix the inherent problem.

Okay, so let's say the majority of shootings ARE perpetrated by teens and early-to-mid 20-somethings - a quick peek at the stats since 2000 proves that to be so, at least in schools (where I thought this thread was concerned).

No, arming teachers is not going to solve the problem. The only way to solve it is to experience a major paradigm shift in our society.

Which is going to be easier to pull off? Which is going to give us results tomorrow? How do you turn a juggernaut around?

You don't. It takes many generations. And we don't have the time. Our children are dying NOW.

Hence, the Band Aid solution. No, it isn't perfect and it isn't pretty, but it's a temporary fix until - IF - we pull our thumbs out and change the way we live.

For which I have little hope.

 

[Ozarkgal]

Seabreeze and Anne..Yes, over medicating is a real problem also. I have a friend that is an older teacher and she often comments on how many kids are on mood altering drugs these days. Also, since the implementation of the so-called "no child left behind" mandate, the classrooms in the school where she teaches have an overabundance of kids with behavioral issues that must be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms.

These kids often have extreme behavioral problems and are on drug therapy They are disruptive, often violent, and require an inordinate amount of the teacher's attention to make it through a classroom period, thus leaving students that are willing to learn with whatever leftovers the teacher can throw at them.

This is another great political idea that has helped transform schools from places of learning to institutions that try to pretend that kids with psychological problems are normal, require teacher to teach to the lowest common denominator, all the while trying to uphold a certain unattainable educational standard.

Boy, maybe off- topic...but part of the whole educational, societial, and psychological problems we are seeing today.

 

[Ozarkgal]

Okay, so let's say the majority of shootings ARE perpetrated by teens and early-to-mid 20-somethings - a quick peek at the stats since 2000 proves that to be so, at least in schools (where I thought this thread was concerned).

No, arming teachers is not going to solve the problem. The only way to solve it is to experience a major paradigm shift in our society.

Which is going to be easier to pull off? Which is going to give us results tomorrow? How do you turn a juggernaut around?

You don't. It takes many generations. And we don't have the time. Our children are dying NOW.

Hence, the Band Aid solution. No, it isn't perfect and it isn't pretty, but it's a temporary fix until - IF - we pull our thumbs out and change the way we live.

For which I have little hope.

Your whole post is so absolutely correct! Couldn't have said it better myself, even though I tried!
If it's true that everything comes full circle, there may be a chance...but I also have little hope

 

[Anne]

Seabreeze and Anne..Yes, over medicating is a real problem also. I have a friend that is an older teacher and she often comments on how many kids are on mood altering drugs these days. Also, since the implementation of the so-called "no child left behind" mandate, the classrooms in the school where she teaches have an overabundance of kids with behavioral issues that must be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms.

These kids often have extreme behavioral problems and are on drug therapy They are disruptive, often violent, and require an inordinate amount of the teacher's attention to make it through a classroom period, thus leaving students that are willing to learn with whatever leftovers the teacher can throw at them.

This is another great political idea that has helped transform schools from places of learning to institutions that try to pretend that kids with psychological problems are normal, require teacher to teach to the lowest common denominator, all the while trying to uphold a certain unattainable educational standard.

Boy, maybe off- topic...but part of the whole educational, societial, and psychological problems we are seeing today.

Agreed!!!! Yet, I also wonder how many of these behaviors are really "abnormal"....fidgety kids, kids who push their limits, etc. are all normal. (imo)....are we supposed to fit them all into a conforming mode so they can't think for themselves anymore?? Know what I mean; dumb them down???

 

[Ozarkgal]

Agreed!!!! Yet, I also wonder how many of these behaviors are really "abnormal"....fidgety kids, kids who push their limits, etc. are all normal. (imo)....are we supposed to fit them all into a conforming mode so they can't think for themselves anymore?? Know what I mean; dumb them down???

Yes, I think some of these kids have learned to work the system for attention. Also, there are probably some bright ones among them that are just plain bored and need more challenge and mental stimulation. Dumbing down is definitely the agenda now.

My friend tells me that spelling tests consist of multiple choice and kids no longer have to sound a word out and try to spell it in their head or on paper. She also says that a lot of the younger teachers can't even spell.

 

[SifuPhil]

Yes, but they feel good about themselves.

Maybe Mr. Rogers IS to blame.





JUST KIDDING!

I never struck my own kids, but let me say that there have been times in the past when I was out in public that I wanted to backhand some of those little monsters that belonged to other people. But then I realized that that's like kicking a dog for piddling on a tree - for them, it's a natural thing to do.

Same for these kids - they're just the product of their environment, an environment that society has chosen to turn into Entitlement Land instead of Respect World. You can't blame them for taking advantage of our weaknesses.

It's the politicians that we need to back-hand. The special-interest groups. The lawyers. The lot of them.

 

[That Guy]

Ozarkgal, I've been in firefights and that's as real as it gets. But, it was expected. It was war. Walking around in civilian life, ain't nobody running a defensive perimeter, posting guard, locked, loaded and ready for bear. Give me a trained force to protect the population but not Johnnie come lately with one hand in his pants and the other on his gun. No thank you.

Look, I understand the situation and I'm with you on wanting to fight back. But, I feel everyone with a weapon doesn't understand fire lanes and muzzle discipline. Just because somebody is packing heat, it's holstered and not at the ready. If we're all gonna carry guns, then I want my M16 and it will not be shouldered and not on safe... Great. Just great...

 

[SifuPhil]

Ozarkgal, I've been in firefights and that's as real as it gets. But, it was expected. It was war. Walking around in civilian life, ain't nobody running a defensive perimeter, posting guard, locked, loaded and ready for bear. Give me a trained force to protect the population but not Johnnie come lately with one hand in his pants and the other on his gun. No thank you.

Look, I understand the situation and I'm with you on wanting to fight back. But, I feel everyone with a weapon doesn't understand fire lanes and muzzle discipline. Just because somebody is packing heat, it's holstered and not at the ready. If we're all gonna carry guns, then I want my M16 and it will not be shouldered and not on safe... Great. Just great...

Given that we're not in an officially-declared war zone I'd still rather have the possible life-saving back-up of a carrying citizen, even if they end up putting a round in my back by mistake. I would think that the odds are in favor of taking out the bad guys if enough good guys are carrying.

Maybe make firearm training part and parcel of citizenship - you know, the way it used to be in this country.

______________________________________________________________________________________

We just had another local incident - guy was walking down the street (in the bad part of town, granted) at 11:30pm. Just walking. A bad guy was hassling someone and taking an offensive position with him. Then the bad guy's attention switched to our good guy. Both are carrying backpacks. Both drop their packs and put their hands up.

Bad guy cheats and pulls out a loaded 9mm, holds it up to good guy's head and pulls trigger. Doesn't fire - turns out there's nothing in the chamber. Good guy is slapping at him, trying to get the gun. Bad guy chambers a round, holds it up to good guy's cheek and pulls trigger - nothing. Turns and runs.

Good guy is calling 911 on cell phone while chasing bad guy. Bad guy turns, finally gets off a few rounds, misses. Chase continues. Police are advising good guy not to pursue, but he said he wants bad guy in jail.

Cops finally tackle him after he refuses to obey their commands, find a 9mm in his pocket with a full clip and one in the chamber, that one having a nick from the firing pin but evidently having misfired.

Good guy thanks God for his good luck, but also says he's going to get a carry permit.

In my opinion, lesson learned.

 

[SeaBreeze]

It is definitely a deterrent to criminals when they know a homeowner is armed, or suspect that their next victim may have a concealed carry...not looking to change anyone's mind here, if you're against it, then chances are you'll take that opinion to your grave. I recently saw a woman on the news being beaten by a large male intruder in her own home, I think it was in Connecticut, while her young daughter watched helpless. It made me cringe to see him punch her face with his fists repeatedly, as if in a fight with another man. Throwing her on the floor and choking her, after stealing her valuables. If that gal had an equalizer in her home, they'd be taking that monster away on a stretcher. Many other similar cases.

 

[That Guy]

My best friend was jumped, attacked, mugged, beaten, robbed, put in the hospital by a couple of cowardly animals in San Francisco, recently. We're just thankful they didn't kill him. Had he been packing heat, do you really think he could have fought back? They had the advantage of surprise and would have probably shot him with the goddammed thing. Having a weapon at the ready is difficult in most cases. A shotgun or pistol in the home seems like a great idea. But, where is it? Locked up and safe and secure as is should be? Will you be able to get to it in time? Or should we all post guards and walk around with our weapons drawn?

This ain't the movies and those assholes like Bruce Willis, Sly Stalone and all the other phoney chickenhawks ain't gonna save the day. Your everyday citizen will be crapping their pants when the bullets fly and I don't wanna be around when the everyday citizen thinks he's gonna pull the trigger in an emergency just like he "practiced" at the range with his buddies last Saturday.

Look, I hate all these violent and crazy people, too. I just don't trust untrained and undisciplined civilians with weapons.

I will now set my tripwires, crawl back into my bunker and peer out at the dangerous world while caressing my carbine . . . my precious . . . my precious....